Author Topic: Autonomous orbital sander  (Read 2380 times)

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Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 169
Autonomous orbital sander
« on: September 19, 2017, 06:00 PM »
With autonomous vehicles hitting the road why not an autonomous orbital sander? A sander that when placed on the work surface simply detects the dimension of the material and then begins the appropriate sanding pattern seems easy enough to do at this point.

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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 634
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2017, 06:06 PM »
Who (or what) will offer resistance to the reactionary torque of the sanders rotation?

When you operate the sander then you hold back or resist the rotation of the sander.

Without you the sander will just dance around unless they were to come up with some
sort of concentric, counter-rotating discs.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 169
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2017, 06:11 PM »
Seems to me they could come up with an appropriate "cradle" of sorts to support the orbital motion. On the other hand I imagine Festool would rethink the orbital motion itself. So maybe the new motion design would differ from a traditional orbital sander allowing it to be self-supportive. 

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 169
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2017, 06:18 PM »
Besides convenience here is reason enough to do it.

http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=2161000.2161206

Offline Svar

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2017, 06:27 PM »
You can have it now by attaching a sanding pad to iRobot Roomba vacuum.

Offline HarveyWildes

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2017, 07:36 PM »
If it would sand -and- finish...

Offline Svar

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2017, 07:50 PM »
If it would sand -and- finish...
... and cut to size, drill, rout, and assemble.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1310
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2017, 08:36 PM »
Doesn't a widebelt sander pretty much do that already ? [unsure]

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 169
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 07:38 AM »
Using an orbital sander is the perfect candidate for shop automation. The ergonomics of the machine and the movements one performs are "mechanical" in nature so releasing the body from such constraints makes a lot of sense. Maybe some will disagree but I see no reason why more automation can't be integrated into more portable power tools.

It's almost 2020, just saying.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1310
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 09:26 AM »
Automation could certainly be integrated into these tools. 

But, the cost to do so would make the number of potential sales rather low.   

I'm sure all of you asking about this have a CNC router, yes ?

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 01:54 PM »
      Prices come own over time if a product works and gains traction and  or morphs. CNC , while still expensive, doesn't cost what it first cost. I know it is in a different form and may currently have more limited capability than a full table unit but witness ...............  Shaper.   It can do quite a bit, is still in the beginning stages , is in the realm of affordability, and is waaay more accessible to get going with than a full table unit.

    Seriously you could be still using a sanding block because someone dumped the first electric ROS because it was too expensive and who would buy it?  Ideas for products and innovation start somewhere.

Seth

   

Offline mcooley

  • Posts: 169
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2017, 03:14 PM »
I'm just suggesting we are pretty far behind when it comes to autonomous function in power tools. When one looks at other industries they seem much farther ahead. CNC being one example. Shaper is another great example and more to my point. But the fact they are alone right now in that space is disappointing.

Offline Svar

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2017, 03:37 PM »
I'm sure all of you asking about this have a CNC router, yes ?
The number of CNC routers in DIY and one-man shops in the US today is easily in six figures. There is at least a dozen CNC companies catering to this segment.
If you can get an autonomous drone, lawn mower or a vacuum cleaner these days for a few hundred $$, why not a sander. Throw it on a large panel or a deck and go have some coffee.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 03:42 PM by Svar »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2017, 05:29 PM »
I'm sure all of you asking about this have a CNC router, yes ?
The number of CNC routers in DIY and one-man shops in the US today is easily in six figures. There is at least a dozen CNC companies catering to this segment.
If you can get an autonomous drone, lawn mower or a vacuum cleaner these days for a few hundred $$, why not a sander. Throw it on a large panel or a deck and go have some coffee.


Oh, man, an autonomous deck sander would be great!

Seth

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1937
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2017, 10:00 PM »
I believe this is called “outsourcing”. ;^)

I am also sure it would be a lot cheaper than whatever the first run of this futuristic atonomoid would be.

Jane get me off this crazy thing!!

Cheers. Bryan.


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People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline Master Carpenter

  • Posts: 41
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2017, 08:35 AM »
Why not just replace the router on a cnc table with a sander?
Ts 55, Ts 75, of 1010, lr 32, mft, mfs 700, RO 150 x2 + paper asort, RO 90 + paper asort, pro 5, df 500 + dom asort, hl 850 e, ti 15, cxs, centrotec set, ct48, ct sys, vac sys, 32;55x2;118 tracks, a stack of sys and an og festool first aid kit.

Offline antss

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 08:47 AM »
Finally, someone picked up on my hint.

You get a cookie Master C.

Would not be difficult to make a cradle/clamp to fit a palm sander.  A rotex yes.  [smile]

Offline pixelated

  • Posts: 69
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 08:52 AM »
I'm not sure how useful an autonomous sander the size of current 5 and 6 inch sanders would be, but I think a sensor to tell you the smoothness of the surface might be nice. It would need to know what grit you're using, but then, for example, you could just sand with that grit until an indicator came on to tell you the surface was as smooth as that grit could make it.

Or possibly, a sensor to tell you if you were overworking an area and it was lower than the rest.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2017, 10:14 AM »
Automation could certainly be integrated into these tools. 

But, the cost to do so would make the number of potential sales rather low.   

I'm sure all of you asking about this have a CNC router, yes ?




Finally, someone picked up on my hint.

You get a cookie Master C.

Would not be difficult to make a cradle/clamp to fit a palm sander.  A rotex yes.  [smile]


Personally I thought your hint was supporting the statement that sales would be too low. In effect asking / suggesting that not that many of you own a CNC router table so how could one possibly expect to sell very many auto sanders.


Seth

Offline Svar

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2017, 01:48 PM »
Automation could certainly be integrated into these tools. 
But, the cost to do so would make the number of potential sales rather low.   
I'm sure all of you asking about this have a CNC router, yes ?

Finally, someone picked up on my hint.
You get a cookie Master C.
Would not be difficult to make a cradle/clamp to fit a palm sander.  A rotex yes.  [smile]
Personally I thought your hint was supporting the statement that sales would be too low. In effect asking / suggesting that not that many of you own a CNC router table so how could one possibly expect to sell very many auto sanders.
Seth
I think you assumption was correct, Seth.  [wink]
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 01:53 PM by Svar »

Offline Gregor

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2017, 04:26 PM »
Personally I thought your hint was supporting the statement that sales would be too low. In effect asking / suggesting that not that many of you own a CNC router table so how could one possibly expect to sell very many auto sanders.
In case it would also accept an OF 1400 to be useable as a CNC router... there could be a market.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1310
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #21 on: September 21, 2017, 11:25 PM »
My point was twofold fellas. 

One you picked up on Seth - CNC automation for routers has been around awhile yet market penetration has not gotten to the commodity level, despite the constant price drop.  And that you (the masses ) still don't have one.

But I bet you guys all have a couple of routers, yes ?  Including the coat tail riders.

The second was that a CNC router (that already exists ) could easily be fit with a sander and programmed to sand.  It'd be a very simple program to write in a short amount of time.

Gregor , I appreciate your piling on; but what does a of1400 bring to a CNC offer that five other routers with mounts in stock don't bring to the party ?   Besides added cost and a systainer ?  Longer duty cycle ? More precision ? faster spindle speed? More torque? More pleasing colors ?

In case y'all have still not deciphered it - automatic sanding could exist tomorrow. Literally.  With little effort for those that truly thought it beneficial.

And not with a roomba. [tongue]


Offline Svar

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2017, 12:44 AM »
CNC automation for routers has been around awhile yet market penetration has not gotten to the commodity level, despite the constant price drop.  And that you (the masses ) still don't have one. But I bet you guys all have a couple of routers, yes ?  Including the coat tail riders.
The second was that a CNC router (that already exists ) could easily be fit with a sander and programmed to sand.  It'd be a very simple program to write in a short amount of time.
I think you are wrong on the first point. We, the masses, have one. It might not be as common as a screw driver, but talking market penetration, sure as heck more common than Planex, or Vac Sys, or a chain mortiser.

As for the second point... For some reason I find it more appealing to launch a $300 Roomba style sander onto a 10' slab table, than trying to wrestle that table into a suitably sized  $100,000 CNC. But that's just me. Sure, its a niche market, but so are many other tools.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2017, 01:40 AM by Svar »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2017, 12:52 AM »


And not with a roomba. [tongue]

The roomba is for the dust collection.

Seth

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2017, 12:57 AM »
It also needs to remain portable to be able to have it sand decks.

Seth

Offline antss

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2017, 07:56 AM »
Roomba for the DC  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] ya got me.

How would Roomba's sensors detect the edge of your table Svar ?  Or do your designs have substantial vertical edges ?  [eek]. And are you that confident it's drive can withstand the torque a sander motor produces? 

I agree with both of you that portability has a larger appeal.  I also think that if you want serous dust collection , there are many kinks to work out. Both literally and figuratively. Hose management is at the top of the list.

Offline Master Carpenter

  • Posts: 41
Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2017, 10:43 PM »
Going deeper into this than I probably should. If you have a cnc router table, you already have a mounted motor. Build a sanding disc attachment that fits the router collet. Get fancy and make the attachment random orbit, or just program a random pattern on the cnc. A sanding router bit is probably easier and faster to swap in than making a cradle to hold a ROS.

Where do I collect my cookie? Can you ship it?
Ts 55, Ts 75, of 1010, lr 32, mft, mfs 700, RO 150 x2 + paper asort, RO 90 + paper asort, pro 5, df 500 + dom asort, hl 850 e, ti 15, cxs, centrotec set, ct48, ct sys, vac sys, 32;55x2;118 tracks, a stack of sys and an og festool first aid kit.

Offline Svar

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2017, 10:46 PM »
Roomba for the DC  [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] [big grin] ya got me.

How would Roomba's sensors detect the edge of your table Svar ?  Or do your designs have substantial vertical edges ?  [eek]. And are you that confident it's drive can withstand the torque a sander motor produces? 

I agree with both of you that portability has a larger appeal.  I also think that if you want serous dust collection , there are many kinks to work out. Both literally and figuratively. Hose management is at the top of the list.
Roomba has downward looking peripheral sensors. That's why it does not fall off the stairs. All those tech issues you listed have been solved long ago on one device or another.

Offline Leadfoot

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2017, 03:09 PM »
So a Roomba weighing 30 to 50 lbs to counteract the random movement and down force necessary for sanding seems doable.

120 powered so as to be able to drag the power cord and dust collection.

Not going to do inside corners but then no round sander does.



I'ma gonna want two cookies

Offline antss

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Re: Autonomous orbital sander
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2017, 05:09 PM »
so when are you taking pre-orders  ?   [wink]