Author Topic: Domino Insertion Pliers  (Read 3050 times)

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Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 733
Domino Insertion Pliers
« on: October 11, 2018, 09:30 AM »
I like the thought of using dominos, but I really struggle with inserting them, tapping them in straight, and avoiding blowouts. 

It seems a tool such as a "Domino Insertion Plier" or "Domino Insertion Press" would greatly assist with this.

I'm envisioning a tool much like a channel lock plier.  Adjustable for the different heights of dominos.  The "jaws" have a hard but smooth backing material to press the domino and support the work without marring.  Squeezing the "pliers" would result in a straight, in-plane clamping force. 

Something like the Raimondi Leveling System Pliers or Kreg Face Clamps, but with hardwood jaw covers and a straight motion would probably work.

Toolmakers?

"Domino Removal Pliers" that didn't deform the domino upon removal would also be great.


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Offline Roseland

  • Posts: 581
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #1 on: October 11, 2018, 09:39 AM »
I don't know about inserting, but for removing Dominos I use some of these:

https://www.knipex.com/index.php?id=1216&page=group_detail&groupID=1500

The jaws remain parallel, and aren't serrated, so they don't damage the Domino.

Andrew
TS55, MFT/3, OF1400, OF1010, CT26, RS100, ETS125, CXS, MFS400, DF-500, Zobos.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2041
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #2 on: October 11, 2018, 09:45 AM »
I also use the Knipex, have the 03-150 and 43-250.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3609
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #3 on: October 11, 2018, 12:14 PM »
I like Knipex aligater style pliers too but they are the regular serrated jaws. I don’t find the occasional cross grooves the pliers make on the Dominos to be a problem. If anything they allow some space for glue. And they are compression marks which will likely un-compress from the moisture in the glue.

A couple of times I had to resort to using Vice Grips and a hammer to remove a Domino from a tight mortise. On reflection I decided that if the Domino was that tight it didn’t need glue anyway and I could leave it in so now if they come out with the Knipex pliers they’ll get glue on re-insertion. If they don’t come out they stay and I move on to the next.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 681
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2018, 12:42 PM »
I microwave the dominoes before a glue-up. I have not had much success with my regular plumber pliers in removing the dominoes.

A little while ago, I came across this video on dealing with tight dominoes:


Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5159
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #5 on: October 11, 2018, 12:44 PM »
For Domino insertion, I just use a small 12 oz Estwing hammer. It's small & light and you can easily tell when the Dominos have been fully seated. Both the sound and the feel of the hammer change. Make sure you strike the end of the Domino squarely.

For removal I use a Knipex or a Vise-Grip, whichever one is at hand.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2018, 12:46 PM by Cheese »

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 448
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #6 on: October 11, 2018, 04:35 PM »
I also use a small, but plastic-capped hammer for insertion, of I don’t do it no hand.

For Domino Extraction I mostly use a knipex cobra 125mm model, since it easily manages the sices and fits nicely in both Domino Systainers (Connectors & plain Tenons).

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3675
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2018, 06:44 PM »
If I need to pull a domino, it's grab the Knipex pliers and go for it.  I usually insert dominoes using a sturdy rubber mallet.  I also gently sand the ends of the dominoes to allow glue to slip by rather than cause a blow-out. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 733
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2018, 01:32 PM »
I use a sturdy rubber mallet to insert them.  They frequently go in crooked and I have to tap them in straight.  I still think it would be easier and present less of a blowout risk to have a tool that presses them in straight while providing backing support.

To help deal with tightness I don't plunge on my line.  I plunge to each side of it.

I'll get some of those wrench pliers.  Thanks!

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1073
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2018, 02:26 PM »
Short microwave treatment (or a bit longer in >100°C oven) adjusts the domino size to make it fit easier, people claim.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 5159
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2018, 04:24 PM »
I use a sturdy rubber mallet to insert them.  They frequently go in crooked and I have to tap them in straight.

Hey Kodi, that’s the reason I quit using a rubber mallet. It’s difficult to contact the Domino squarely and even just the slightest side element to the strike drives the Domino in crooked. Try using a light weight hammer and strike the Domino squarely on the top surface. Just a couple of light taps start it home and then it will self guide itself.  [big grin]

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5769
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2018, 07:12 PM »
You Don't have a Domino insertion tool?

Tom

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5292
  • Does Anyone Know What Time It Is?
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2018, 08:32 PM »
 Tom you crack me up

Offline lwoirhaye

  • Posts: 234
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #13 on: October 12, 2018, 08:52 PM »
Lamello made a tool for squashing thick biscuits.  I just sorted them according to the fit I needed when I used them.   They can be shrunk in a toaster over or light bulb "shop oven" too.

I mostly use dowels lately unless something calls for m&t in which case I do that with a grumble.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 733
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2018, 10:05 AM »
You Don't have a Domino insertion tool?

Tom

I know you're FAR more skilled than I am and that you're poking fun at me.  Thanks for the laugh.

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm requesting.  It isn't the tightness of the domino that's the issue.  A 15mm cut in 18mm material doesn't leave much backing strength for when the dominos are tapped in.  Tap a little too hard, or have a "hydraulic lock" from glue, and the domino blows out the other side of the material.

A pair of pliers that "presses" the domino into place while providing backing support could prevent this.  We have seating tools for bearings and primers, so why not dominos?

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1018
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2018, 10:27 AM »
I mostly use the 6x 40 mm domino's for 18 mm stuff.
If you cut all the mortices on the side where it's 25 mm deep on the first setting, and tap them in all the way,  they won't go in crooked, and you won't have blowouts when assembling. (the domino's are 2 mm shorter than their name)

(So if you use 5x30 domino's, the side where the mortices are in the end of the board, so you won't damage the material if you hammer them in)

Offline SRSemenza

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  • Posts: 8644
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2018, 11:07 AM »
I mostly use the 6x 40 mm domino's for 18 mm stuff.
If you cut all the mortices on the side where it's 25 mm deep on the first setting, and tap them in all the way,  they won't go in crooked, and you won't have blowouts when assembling. (the domino's are 2 mm shorter than their name)

(So if you use 5x30 domino's, the side where the mortices are in the end of the board, so you won't damage the material if you hammer them in)

Yeah, this ^   

   I use 6 x 40 on plywood boxes too. I do 12mm on the face side and 28mm on the edge side. That leaves about 1/4" (two layers of ply) to prevent blow outs. I use a mallet to tap drive / them in. If I need to drive into the face side I make sure the piece is supported on a flat surface. Really removes the blow out problem unless you a really going at it.

If you want to press them in, how about using a quick clamp?

Seth

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5769
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2018, 11:11 AM »
You Don't have a Domino insertion tool?

Tom

I know you're FAR more skilled than I am and that you're poking fun at me.  Thanks for the laugh.

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm requesting.  It isn't the tightness of the domino that's the issue.  A 15mm cut in 18mm material doesn't leave much backing strength for when the dominos are tapped in.  Tap a little too hard, or have a "hydraulic lock" from glue, and the domino blows out the other side of the material.

A pair of pliers that "presses" the domino into place while providing backing support could prevent this.  We have seating tools for bearings and primers, so why not dominos?

Not poking fun at you......well maybe a little [big grin]

To solve the hydraulic issue, roll the domino in glue then insert. The "fluid" is along the side of the "piston" not under it.

With the insertion pliers how would you address center panel Dominos?

Tom


Offline sprior

  • Posts: 412
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2018, 03:05 PM »
Am I the only one who has made a standard out of cutting the domino mortise on the edges of panels with the tight setting and any mortises on the face of plywood on the slightly loose setting?  Aside from avoiding any possibility of the hydraulic lock issue it gives me a little adjust-ability on glue up.

And for an insertion tool I use a round wooden mallet I made on the lathe from a log from my firewood pile.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 733
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2018, 09:12 AM »
You Don't have a Domino insertion tool?

Tom

I know you're FAR more skilled than I am and that you're poking fun at me.  Thanks for the laugh.

I think people are misunderstanding what I'm requesting.  It isn't the tightness of the domino that's the issue.  A 15mm cut in 18mm material doesn't leave much backing strength for when the dominos are tapped in.  Tap a little too hard, or have a "hydraulic lock" from glue, and the domino blows out the other side of the material.

A pair of pliers that "presses" the domino into place while providing backing support could prevent this.  We have seating tools for bearings and primers, so why not dominos?

Not poking fun at you......well maybe a little [big grin]

To solve the hydraulic issue, roll the domino in glue then insert. The "fluid" is along the side of the "piston" not under it.

With the insertion pliers how would you address center panel Dominos?

Tom

They wouldn't address the center panel Dominos. 

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 733
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2018, 09:13 AM »
Am I the only one who has made a standard out of cutting the domino mortise on the edges of panels with the tight setting and any mortises on the face of plywood on the slightly loose setting?  Aside from avoiding any possibility of the hydraulic lock issue it gives me a little adjust-ability on glue up.

And for an insertion tool I use a round wooden mallet I made on the lathe from a log from my firewood pile.

I was doing that.  Now I use the tight setting and plunge on each side of my mark.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3609
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2018, 10:47 AM »
Am I the only one who has made a standard out of cutting the domino mortise on the edges of panels with the tight setting and any mortises on the face of plywood on the slightly loose setting?  Aside from avoiding any possibility of the hydraulic lock issue it gives me a little adjust-ability on glue up.

And for an insertion tool I use a round wooden mallet I made on the lathe from a log from my firewood pile.

I was doing that.  Now I use the tight setting and plunge on each side of my mark.

So you plunge twice for each Domino?

To each his own, but why don’t you just use the built-in medium setting?

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 681
Re: Domino Insertion Pliers
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2018, 11:05 AM »
I only plunge twice when I need to correct a misalignment.