Author Topic: Larger cordless range  (Read 6927 times)

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Offline Dundee99

  • Posts: 18
Larger cordless range
« on: August 21, 2016, 11:22 PM »
If the range of power tools in the 5.2Amph range was bigger, I would see the major benefits! At first I would like to see a cordless multi tool and cordless planer. But I would also love to see an impact driver and cordless angle grinder.

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Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 1895
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2016, 03:58 PM »
I haven't looked into it, but is the Vecturo available cordless elsewhere in the World?
 I thought there was a battery operated version of it?  No?  [blink]
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1421
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2016, 04:41 PM »
I have the cordless Fein Supercut and the  Festool plunge base... Vecturo is the same beast only corded.   I love mine.  Fein has a dust collection attachment that works fantastic when cutting drywall.

Offline trevorg

  • Posts: 4
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2016, 09:36 PM »
WOW... spot on what I was thinking... I don't plan on buying the Vectoro until they make it cordless... when a tool has low drain and is not usually used in a shop environment, it is so much faster and more enjoyable to use a cordless version whenever possible.  Manual dust extraction is the only setback (often needed), but very well worth the trade off to have the freedom of no chord. 

I absolutely love my pistol-grip cordless Carvex jigsaw (finally no chord!), and after getting the cordless version of the track saw, there is no going back there either... the bag does an impressively good job most of the time w/o the need to hook it up to dust extraction, but I learned early on that the bag needs to be emptied when about 1/2 full or say bye-bye to a clean work area.  Even when I have dust extraction right there, I rarely hook my cordless track saw up to my CT 36 or my Mini... that hose and the power cord on the track saw is quite a pain.  Kudos to Festool for doing such a good job @ fixing the worst thing about one of their most useful tools.

Anyway, if my jigsaw were not cordless, I would not like it even 1/2 as much because a jigsaw is a mobile tool for me that carries little utility in a shop setting.  A multi-tool is in this same category for me and it always has been... a multi-tool is just not something I'm going to grab for precise work that I'd do in my shop, but I don't think I'm alone in how I use the thing - - - like most people I would imagine, I use mine for very small and quick tasks, and generally it would take me just as much time to hook a corded version up as it would to be done w/ the task w/o a cord.  Plus, maneuverability is important w/ this tool in a similar way that a jigsaw requires maneuverability, and again I say, why have a chord on a low drain tool?  I don't see Festool making corded drills because drills are low-drain and mobile... lose the cord... PLEASE!!!

Kudo's to Festool.  Man you guys have some crazy good engineers there!  My first Festool purchase was for about $250, and I was really skeptical and I didn't even buy the vacuum w/ the sander.  After about 5 months I now have over $5,000 in Festool and I just hand them the credit card now w/o a second thought.  A few tools have not met my expectation (about 15% in terms of dollars), but Festool guarantees you'll be happy with your purchase (30 days), and I take them up on it when a tool just isn't performing like I need it to.  I found their lineal sander to be unbalanced, the RO 90 had zero use to me next to my DTS 400 and my 6" Brushless sander, and I hated the shorter hose and the lack of wheels on their CT SYS mobile dust extractor and it also broke and wouldn't hold suction after about a week.  The CT SYS was the biggest lemon I've gotten to date (go with the mini if you're considering it), and the RO 90 despite great reviews was inferior to the DTS 400 for detail sanding and way inferior to the 6" brushless for everything else.  With the LS 130 EQ I was hoping to replace block sanding by hand, and I almost kept the thing, but I found it just too unbalanced and lacking in pad options for my use... I'd love to basically have a sanding block w/ holes in it, but the balance simply needs to get better either way.

These tools that Festool should make are one of the reasons we keep coming back to see if they've made them yet, right!

I'd love a 4, 6, or 8 battery leaf blower, and I second the grinder.




Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3000
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2016, 10:03 AM »
I haven't looked into it, but is the Vecturo available cordless elsewhere in the World?
I thought there was a battery operated version of it? No?  [blink]

Yes, it's orange and it has Fein printed on it.  [huh]

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2852
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2016, 10:06 AM »
I haven't looked into it, but is the Vecturo available cordless elsewhere in the World?
I thought there was a battery operated version of it? No?  [blink]

Yes, it's orange and it has Fein printed on it.  [huh]

I wonder if maintaining the difference in power supply is how Fein and Festool came to an agreement on their apparent co-development of the Vecturo?

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 3000
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2016, 11:17 AM »
I wonder if maintaining the difference in power supply is how Fein and Festool came to an agreement on their apparent co-development of the Vecturo?

Good question, you'd think cordless would be the natural tool progression (along with brushless) and could help lower the barrier for people trying to justify buying into the Festool battery platform. Release the DWC 18, the HKC and a cordless Vecturo, its a start.

How about releasing an optional charger that can charge both the full sized batteries & also the CXS batteries rather than having 2 chargers taking up space on a shelf. Milwaukee offers one for their 2 lines of cordless tools.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7537
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2016, 01:14 PM »
Festool doesn't have the R&D manpower or the deep pockets necessary to significantly expand its cordless tool range.

If you want a wider range of cordless tools, buy them now ... you'll probably wear them out before Festool offers more than a couple more cordless tools.

I'd be happy if a few manufacturers could at least standardise batteries .. but none of the are going to forfeit their battery revenue [mad]

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 850
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2016, 01:59 PM »
I've got a few cordless festools, a cordless mini Metabo sawzall. I think a cordless nailer would be handy, also a full-sized sawzall, a cordless grinder..

Would like it if Festool came out with them, but would likely get the Metabo versions if I had the immediate need. Unfortunately it looks like Dewalt is the only one making a cordless nailer that is effective.

I think a cordless Vecturo would be a nice plus but maybe you would lose some movement into tight spaces as the 18v batteries are rather bulky..
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7537
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2016, 12:33 AM »
I've got a few cordless festools, a cordless mini Metabo sawzall. I think a cordless nailer would be handy, also a full-sized sawzall, a cordless grinder..

Would like it if Festool came out with them, but would likely get the Metabo versions if I had the immediate need. Unfortunately it looks like Dewalt is the only one making a cordless nailer that is effective.

I think a cordless Vecturo would be a nice plus but maybe you would lose some movement into tight spaces as the 18v batteries are rather bulky..

@PreferrablyWood I went through that thinking and have consequently added both Metabo and Dewalt tools to my repertoire. Initially Dewalt only for the nailers, but I "fell" into a Dewalt multi tool and I have to say that it's a little gem with the 2.0Ah batteries (and I've gone on record many times in the past as an anti yellow tool person).

... I've also go a sneaking suspicion that the Dewalt reciprocating saw is a better unit than the Metabo I have. Add the new Dewalt battery technology to the mix and I'm perceivably advocating Dewalt tools alongside your Festools [eek]

Whoda thunk that [scared] [scared]

Offline sae

  • Posts: 841
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2016, 12:55 AM »
@Kev DeWalt's "new" battery tech is smoke and mirrors.

The only real advance is they moved to 20700 cells in their 9Ah pack that have increased cross-sectional area and overall volume, to allow for lower internal resistance and higher amperage (and less heat), not unlike what Metabo did w/ LiHD a year ago. There's no extra power to be had 18v vs 60v (except maybe lighter tools due to thinner gauge wiring), the limiting factor is the 3.7v (nominal) battery cell, not which way you choose to string them up to achieve same number of watts. Ohm's law, what is this SCIENCE?!
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 01:01 AM by sae »

Offline PreferrablyWood

  • Posts: 850
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2016, 01:05 AM »
I've got a few cordless festools, a cordless mini Metabo sawzall. I think a cordless nailer would be handy, also a full-sized sawzall, a cordless grinder..

Would like it if Festool came out with them, but would likely get the Metabo versions if I had the immediate need. Unfortunately it looks like Dewalt is the only one making a cordless nailer that is effective.

I think a cordless Vecturo would be a nice plus but maybe you would lose some movement into tight spaces as the 18v batteries are rather bulky..

@PreferrablyWood I went through that thinking and have consequently added both Metabo and Dewalt tools to my repertoire. Initially Dewalt only for the nailers, but I "fell" into a Dewalt multi tool and I have to say that it's a little gem with the 2.0Ah batteries (and I've gone on record many times in the past as an anti yellow tool person).

... I've also go a sneaking suspicion that the Dewalt reciprocating saw is a better unit than the Metabo I have. Add the new Dewalt battery technology to the mix and I'm perceivably advocating Dewalt tools alongside your Festools [eek]

Whoda thunk that [scared] [scared]

Well there is actually no reason for me to stick with Metabo for battery driven tools, I note that the Metabo Recip. Saw is heavy and expensive so if the DeWalt was lighter that would be a good selling point. Interesting about the multitool with smaller batteries, that would solve the problem with the bulk 18V version.
850 HL E Planer rustic head standard head angle fence, MFS 400x2, MFS extensions MFS VB 700 x 1 MFS VB 1000 x 2 . CMS GE, sliding fence, VB and 2x VL extension tables, OF 2200, Accessory Set ZS OF 2200 M,36mm 5m antistatik hose, CMS OF+ CMS TS 75 insert modules. SYS-MFT Fixing-Set,  3.5m sleeved hose, Syslite duo, Sys 4 sort 3 x3, Sys Roll, Sys 1 Box x2 , classic Sys 3-Sort 4, classic Sys 3 Sort 6 x2, Sys Cart x3 Systainer 4 x2  as toolbox with selfmade inserts Systainer 5 as toolbox with insert.
Festool 18V HKC 55 Li 5.2 EB Plus FSK 420,FSK 250, Extra blade for the HKC 55 W32.TI 15, CXS 2.6 Ah version, RO 90 DX, PDC 18/4 plus DC UNI FF depth stop chuck,AD 3/8 square socket holder FF chuck, Centrotec Bits; -->Bit holder and bit selection BHS 65 CE TL 24x, ,Bradpoint DB WOOD CE SET ,Zobo (Forstner) D 15-35 CE-Zobo SET ,Masonary/stone bits DB STONE CE Set,Extender BV 150 CE, Countersink QLS D2-8 CE Hook turner HD D18, end centrotec<--.  TS 75 EBQ, PSC 420, OF 1010, RS 300 EQ, CTL Midi, MFT 3, Parf dogs x2pair +Bench dogs x2pair, FS 1080, FS 1900 .  will get Domino DF 700 XL,  CMS insert BS 120 Belt sander.

Offline sae

  • Posts: 841
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2016, 01:13 AM »
Festool doesn't have the R&D manpower or the deep pockets necessary to significantly expand its cordless tool range.



R&D manpower or deep pockets isn't necessary, there's been many successful collaborations that have resulted in a good deal for both supplier and marketing brand.

i.e. Snap-On sells rebranded Metabo grinders as their own; Snap-On has the customers and distribution base, Metabo has the know-how, it's a win-win for both. Metabo even adopted the battery interface for Snap-On batteries.






Fein sells TTI impact drivers (again, with Fein batteries).




And Mafell did the inverse and not only resell Metabo drills, but adopted the whole Metabo battery platform, and now use it for their saws.





Metabo made sander sold as a DeWalt.



Protool CHP 26 Plus made by Kress



There's loads of other examples out there. There's a Makita rebrand of a Hilti rotary hammer out there, Hilti rebrands of some Bosch grinders, Ridgid rebranded some Metabo grinders and sanders in the early 2000s, etc etc.

At one point, Festool never made vacuums and rebranded Nilfisks (and by association, the Kress/Protool relationship above applies as well even though technically not Festool), and they did the inverse as well, selling their belt sander as a Metabo and Milwaukee, so it not like they don't have experience managing such relationships.

Seems like there are plenty of options are out there, if Festool corporate decides they want to answer the cries of their cordless customer base. Metabo would be the obvious choice, given that they're German and their HQ is less than 20 miles from Festool's but perhaps there's some recent bad blood or something though, who knows.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2016, 02:03 AM by sae »

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7537
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2016, 03:45 AM »
@sae I really can't argue with the math behind the science .. none of the tool manufacturers are inventing fundamentally new battery technology .. but Festool are generally in "catch up".

The LiHD batteries from Metabo are a deffo performance and endurance improvement over the 5's .. so if Dewalt have at least achieved that, there's a benefit (don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not a Dewalt fan boy).

The tool collaborations you speak of certainly have the opportunity to widen range with little effort .. but then you're not innovating in the way that Festool value, you're simply padding out your range with someone's tools in your colour and battery shoe (and I'm not saying that's a terrible thing either).

When I say "Festool doesn't have the R&D manpower or the deep pockets necessary to significantly expand it's cordless tool range." I'm talking about new and different tools that add something that is "Festool special" ... rebadging is a different game though you may be on the money with the recent Vecturo collaboration and the Chinese Sysrock as recent offerings.

I do really like my Metabo brushless, cordless AG's ... don't think I've used a small corded AG since I got them.

Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2017, 01:34 AM »
I've got a few cordless festools, a cordless mini Metabo sawzall. I think a cordless nailer would be handy, also a full-sized sawzall, a cordless grinder..

Would like it if Festool came out with them, but would likely get the Metabo versions if I had the immediate need. Unfortunately it looks like Dewalt is the only one making a cordless nailer that is effective.

I think a cordless Vecturo would be a nice plus but maybe you would lose some movement into tight spaces as the 18v batteries are rather bulky..

@PreferrablyWood I went through that thinking and have consequently added both Metabo and Dewalt tools to my repertoire. Initially Dewalt only for the nailers, but I "fell" into a Dewalt multi tool and I have to say that it's a little gem with the 2.0Ah batteries (and I've gone on record many times in the past as an anti yellow tool person).

... I've also go a sneaking suspicion that the Dewalt reciprocating saw is a better unit than the Metabo I have. Add the new Dewalt battery technology to the mix and I'm perceivably advocating Dewalt tools alongside your Festools [eek]

Whoda thunk that [scared] [scared]

Same here! I am into Mafell and Metabo and my Festool 18V outfit is fading away. As a whole I have never been fond of DeWalt, heavy and clumsy as they were back in the days. But I stopped judging brands on old merits long time ago and I think the newer DeWalt line up looks a whole lot better. I find it very hard to see myself getting into DeWalt but I always admire a strong refresh of a line up. For Milwaukee I was surprised to see (feel) the heft on some of the new drills and hammer drills - way too heavy - and the cordless nailer has a very bad rep it seems. But as a whole I am think most companies are still going strong.

Makita might need a little refresh of their line up and I would love to see a vital refresh from Hitachi after the Metabo take over and vice versa. Keep them coming! :)

Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.

Offline glass1

  • Posts: 290
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2017, 06:00 AM »
As an owner of dewalt flexvolt, circular saw, sawzall, grinder, and 12" scms I can tell you they Have Much more Power than any other cordless tools I have used.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 99
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2017, 07:26 AM »
Drills and drivers is the one area where there is no way I can see the justification for Festool prices...I have used the DeWalt "20V" Li-I since they were introduced.  For a bit more than the price of one 18V Festool drill kit I have two drills, an impact driver, a LED flashlight, five 2Ah and two 4Ah batteries and two chargers.  These tools get hard use, are lightweight and comfortable, and perform well with long battery life.

Offline Kev

  • Posts: 7537
Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2017, 01:33 PM »
Drills and drivers is the one area where there is no way I can see the justification for Festool prices...I have used the DeWalt "20V" Li-I since they were introduced.  For a bit more than the price of one 18V Festool drill kit I have two drills, an impact driver, a LED flashlight, five 2Ah and two 4Ah batteries and two chargers.  These tools get hard use, are lightweight and comfortable, and perform well with long battery life.

Centrotec and the flexibility of the various chucks differentiates them, along with the refined control over power delivery. On paper it's a hard choice, but often using the features tips the scale.

Re: Larger cordless range
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2017, 02:07 AM »
Kev: I agree with that. The refined power delivery is class leading for sure.
The Mafell A18m comes close and with the Impuls mode it gives another level of precision for certain applications but it is a little less refined overall. It is a great work horse though. It replaces my Festool 18V drills and it is a give and take.

The Fein ASCM 12C is however the new class "leader" in precision power delivery. It is a even a little better than the C18/T18 for refinement I think and I got the Quick In bitholder chuck just the other day and it is a pure joy to use. It also has 60NM of torque and I drove some 8x100 screws with it (into pine) and it wasn't even challenging the little beast.  [eek] 

The T18 is my "last" Festool 18V and I was going to keep it indefinitely in the workshop but selling it off gives me a new Fein ASCM 12 with the extra bit chuck and some cash to spare so the better option is to cut the umbilical cord and consolidate battery platforms.

The only drawback with the Fein is that it does not accept the Centrotec bit chuck (like the Mafell/Metabo does) so Centrotec drill bits need to go in the drill chuck - but I can live with that and still have the CXS and Mafell for better use of my pile of Centrotec drill bits.

The Fein does take Centrotec accessories in the Fein bitholder chuck and locks firmly but I prefer deep seated drill bits for sure.

Still a big fan of the C18 and the T18 though.  [smile]
Festool:  CS 50EB precisio set, Domino DF500, DF XL 700, OFK500 edge router, OF1010 router EHL65 planer, CTL Mini/Midi Vac, CTL 26 vac MFT800+1080 tables
DSC-AG Grinder,  RAS 115
Rotex 150, ETS EC 150/5 RTS400
Drills: T18, BHC18, CXS.
SysLite KAL II, SYS Rock.
Sys- and Sortainers galore.

Line up has been reduced with the introduction of Mafell/Metabo tools. Red Green and Blue do mix well in the shop.