Author Topic: lets design the rest of the systainer system  (Read 12473 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3304
lets design the rest of the systainer system
« on: November 28, 2012, 01:02 PM »
hi there
i was think about ways to improve the systainer system.
i would lke

a fold down sides for putting a kreg jig in so the lid opens,the sides open out or down and act as a continues place for the work
piece.









lets hear your ideas for systainer concepts, inserts, etc
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8647
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 01:21 PM »
I made a shallow  full width drawer.  It would fit right into the  current modularity of the system.


Seth


Offline RDMuller

  • Posts: 302
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 10:58 PM »
A simple 1 row high sorttainer with 2 or 3 drawers to attach to my drill systainer.  Current 3 by 3 is way too heavy for portable use if you put much into it. 

Offline neeleman

  • Posts: 1210
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 03:00 AM »
Something like this?

They are available from Tanos and once from Protool.
Festoolian since 1998.
FESTOOL:
SYSROCK BR10 | SYSLITE KAL II | SV-SYS D14 | DSC-AG125FH | CDD9.6 | SYSLITE DUO | DF700 | HKC55 | TXS2.6 | CTL SYS | CXS2.6 | DWC18 | CTWings | BHC18 | CS50 | CMS-OF | MFT/3 | MFT/3-VL | KS120 | TS55 R | PSC420 | PS420 | BS75 | RAS115 | RO90 | RO150 | RS400 | RTS400 | RS300 | LS130 | DX93 | ETS150/5 | ETS150/3 | OF1010 | OF1400 | OFK500 | MFK700 | T18 | EHL65 | CTL26 | CTL22 | CTL MIDI | WCR1000 | D27-AS Plug-it | D36 UNI-RS | D36x7 | D50x2.5 | FS800 | FS800/2 | FS1080/2 | FS1400/2 (2x) | FS3000/2 | FSK250 | FSK420 | Gecko Dosh | Toolie | CE-SYS-2010 | RB-SYS CART (2x) | LEV1400 | LEV350 | SYS-MFT
PROTOOL:
CHP26 | PDC18 | FLC UNI | VCP260 | DSC-AGP125 | DSC-AGP230 | DSG-AGP125 | DRP16

Offline Eli

  • Posts: 2501
  • A Yankee in Kangaroo Court
    • Metafizix
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2012, 09:12 AM »
I'd like a sys4 with GFI/RCD 4plex plugs and a retractable power lead, 30M

And another with an air hose.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Wood_Junkie

  • Posts: 1313
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2012, 09:57 AM »
Something like this?

They are available from Tanos and once from Protool.

Just as an aside for folks, you can subsitute the medium width drawers for two small ones.
So you could have your single-level with two drawers (instead of four smalls... I personally find the smalls nearly useless).

Offline fdengel

  • Posts: 854
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2012, 11:22 AM »
I think the next iteration should lock together horizontally as well as vertically, so you can build (and rebuild) custom workbenches out of them on site.

Then arrange for the bench unit for the planer to lock onto the top.


 ;D



Offline Scott Burt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 1994
  • painter/writer/educator
    • Prep to Finish
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 08:09 PM »
I would like them to be see through. Seeing what is inside is more important than figuring out how to get more inside.

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3304
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 08:51 AM »
i would like a sys with a sys 1 or 2 on top and a  sortainer drawer on the bottom.
the shallow drawer would hold accesories related to teh tool in the top part.
drill bits, jig saw blades, sand paper, guide bushs  etc. 
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline Steve R

  • Posts: 918
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2012, 09:01 AM »
I made a shallow  full width drawer.  It would fit right into the  current modularity of the system.

Seth

+1
"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)

Offline Timtool

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
    • My website
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2012, 11:06 AM »
Since these sortainers are destined to be locked to other systainers, then they should be directly incorporated into other systainers, that way you wouldn't lose that many empty space above the drawers.
Say add some drawers under a sys1 and making it sys2-3 height, then you could put your drill insert on the top and all the drills and bits in the drawers by example. But the problem is that current sortainers can't be built into the T-loc design, unless they are built inti the top lid!
BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4... MFTC, MFSC

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3304
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2012, 12:18 PM »
i dont see why they coulnt be made to fit onto a t loc.
all you need is the little lump for the t loc to lock onto. worst case being that the middle drawer coulndt be opened unless the t lock was only on the lower sys
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline Reiska

  • Posts: 1163
  • Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
RE: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2012, 11:54 AM »
First they could finally move to T-loc throughout the range including the sortainers. I for one have only T-locs and I'm never going to get a single old style finger breaker.

Secondly +1 to the have Sys-1 and Sys-2 size top parts with attic lids and then sortainer drawers integrated underneath instead of the braindead CXS two-layer insert.

Also it would be great if they made available DIY kits for the shelves (at a reasonable price) for those who would like to rather build their custom systainer shelving instead of buying the ready made metal systainer cabinets.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline Maťo

  • Posts: 13
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2012, 06:07 AM »
Hi,
I believe that's exactly what the next generation sortainer will look like. Combination of a systainer on top with drawers underneath, in one unit.
Let me explain. I've been always wondering what the T-Loc sortainer would look like. Getting T-Loc knob out of drawer's way would add height and simply waste too much space. Perhaps „T-Loc“ could be modified to some kind of „I-Loc“ to avoid this problem, but I rather thought, they'll just add central anchoring point for the T-Loc knob on the bottom, while keeping original latches on the top. Until I saw this new Midi-systainer in the other thread and noticed, it has NO anchors for original latches. So, in order to be connectible with this thing, all future products MUST be of T-Loc design. That leads me to conclusion, there will be no successor of sortainer/racktainer in current form. Instead, they'll come up with a combo unit you guys suggest here. That way, T-Loc knob could be used without modification and full compatibility with the new lineup would be restored.

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3304
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2012, 07:48 AM »
welcome mato.
i think that having a combo sortainer and sys is the way forward
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8647
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2012, 05:47 PM »
Hi Mato,

Welcome to the FOG!  [smile]


I could see both integrated and seperate staying in the line. If the only type is integrated  (Sys top/sort bottom) then Sortainers could not be practically  stacked without having a  Sys component wasting space in the middle of the stack. Yes, things could be in the  "trapped" Sys but acces would then require unstacking. 



Seth

Offline Maťo

  • Posts: 13
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #16 on: December 18, 2012, 05:09 AM »
Thank you for your welcome!

Seth, with my limited English I'm not quite sure what exactly you mean. The integrated design which I had in mind would behave just like a regular T-Loc systainer in a stack, with additional drawers.

What I suspect is that the „pure“ sortainer is not going to survive. I tried to explain in my first post. And there is another thing - you only need „Open“ and „Connect“ position in a sortainer, no need for „Lock“. T-Loc just doesn't make sense here.

One idea though – „Lock“ position could be used to secure all the drawers in place at the same time. Central locking instead of individual locks. That would make perfect sense to me. But don't ask me how could that be accomplished. [smile]

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8647
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #17 on: December 18, 2012, 01:10 PM »
Thank you for your welcome!

Seth, with my limited English I'm not quite sure what exactly you mean. The integrated design which I had in mind would behave just like a regular T-Loc systainer in a stack, with additional drawers.

What I suspect is that the „pure“ sortainer is not going to survive. I tried to explain in my first post. And there is another thing - you only need „Open“ and „Connect“ position in a sortainer, no need for „Lock“. T-Loc just doesn't make sense here.

One idea though – „Lock“ position could be used to secure all the drawers in place at the same time. Central locking instead of individual locks. That would make perfect sense to me. But don't ask me how could that be accomplished. [smile]


I get what you  mean. I think I am the one not explaining the advantage of a pure Sortainer.   

I tend to use Sortainers in stack positions where I don't want to unstack to get things, just open the  drawers. Think of the stacks as semi - permanent arrangements. With pure Sortainers I can have more than one stacked with a Sys on top, and not have to unstack at all to get things. EX (bottom to top order ) Sort// Sort// Sys.    If only integrated Sys/Sorts are available, stacking multiples will then require unstacking to get into the Sys portion of an integrated unit that is not on the top of the stack.

I have attached a pic of a stack that I would leave together for use.  If the Sortainers in the pic were integrated units (Sys/Sort in one piece) I would then have to unstack to get into the Sys portions.

I think the integrated unit would be a great option, but there is a place in the line for both types.


Seth

Offline Timtool

  • Retailer
  • *
  • Posts: 1014
    • My website
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2012, 02:33 PM »

I have attached a pic of a stack that I would leave together for use.  If the Sortainers in the pic were integrated units (Sys/Sort in one piece) I would then have to unstack to get into the Sys portions.

I think the integrated unit would be a great option, but there is a place in the line for both types.


Seth

I'm not sure if i understand, if T-locs had a bottom section with drawers, then you wouldn't ever need to unstack anything or not?
Unless you keep the classic sys bottom, which would be terrible because then these hybrid systainers would not be able to interlock with each other.
I gave it much thought and i am sure Tanos did even more about making T-loc sortainers, because as much as i currently would love to have one, i don't because i can't help seeing them as outdated design that is likely to be updated any time.

Still it will take alot of creativity to not waste all the space behind the lock
BR10, MFK 700, OS 400, ETS EC 150/3, KA 65-plus,TS55R, CT22E, CTLmini, CTL MIDI, CTM 36 AC HD, Kapex KS120, ETS125, ETS150/5, RO150, RO90, CXS-set, T-15+3 set, DTS400, OF900, OF1010, OF2200 set, Carvex PS420 EBQ set, EHL 65, SSU 200, Centrotec installer set, LR32-sys, FS-800, FS-LR-1400x2, domino 500+domino sys, domino 700 XL, Surfix-sys, Sys-box 1, Syslite, LEV-350, Sys-box,MFTB/1-2-4... MFTC, MFSC

Offline Reiska

  • Posts: 1163
  • Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2012, 03:47 PM »
Well, one way of working around the locking latch position of the T-loc system would be to move the drawers to open from the ends of the systainer instead of the sides. Then the T-loc latch & nob can take as much space as they need to and still retain full volume utilization of the systainer (assuming that backward compatibility would be dropped and the old side latch connection point could be removed). This could go two ways in either enabling a lot longer drawers than in possible today or two shorter drawers one from each end.

Heck, if Tanos would like to make a sexy Sortainer NG they would make the long side of the systainer above the T-loc latch an translucent flip-down drawer a bit like the attic lid and have the drawers behind that opening from the sides  [tongue]

As far as I can see in the situations one would use a sortainer it would be out in the open, so all sides of the systainer would mostly be accessible.

The main downside that I foresee would be when a sortainer with end drawers is situated on a shelf / systainer rack because then you would need to slide the shelf open to access the side drawers.

I see the option an integrated drawer sortainer with a standard size systainer box compartment and attic lid on top to be the next generation standard tool systainer with better accessory storage options vs. the current multi-level inserts and stuff just thrown into the systainer on top of the tools - not as a replacement for a full-blown sortainer for only keeping organization of loose things.

So I would like to see both versions available - sortainers with T-loc latches for organization of small stuff and Systainers with integrated row of sortainer drawers at the bottom to have tool specific utilities storage separate from the tool storage compartment.

Just comparing to the CXS set I have I would rather have the attic lid which is great + a standard T-loc SYS1 size compartment under it with the normal insert for the CXS+battery+chucks+charger only + a single row of three drawes to a side half way through the systainer each with compartment dividers for the standard drills, hook adapters, screws, fasteners, etc. that I currently carry in a separate SYS1 with the screwbox inserts attached to the systainer and have to balance with the CXS systainer in the connected position instead of just pull open a drawer. Currently I have nothing in the second insert layer of the CXS systainer because its just too much of a hassle to pry the top layer out of the systainer with your fingernails and try not to drop your drill from the cart when its out - so its effectively a waste of space.

I guess ideally (if space permits) the tool storage insert would have a dedicated space for every accessory the tool has, but no additional 'general utility spaces' and the generalized space would be provided in the form of an attic lid + drawers under the tool compartment. This way the tools would stay nice and tidy with their chucks, connector bars, DC adapters, etc. and all the random stuff would have a place out of sight in the drawers. Large items line TS-saw blades would probably be counted as standard accessories and should have a spot like they have in the current systainer insert.

My router systainer is so full of stuff that it takes 10min to just pull a table full of router bits, biscuits, DC connectors, templates, extra copy rings, etc. out of the box that I seriously think twice before pulling the tool out. And its a jigsaw puzzle to get back together and close the lid.  [embarassed]
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8647
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #20 on: December 18, 2012, 03:52 PM »
I'm not sure how else to describe it.  If you look at the stack in the picture........ if the bottom sortainer  in that stack was not a pure sortainer, but instead a single unit with drawers in the lower protion and a built in systainer in the upper portion. How would you open the built in Systainer portion of that bottom unit without unstacking?

A Sys - III, IV, V integrated units would be  good additions to the system, I would certainly use some. But not having  pure Sortainers also would reduce the flexibility of the system.  Think about all the size combinations that Tanos would need to produce to make the most of integrated units if pure sortainers were not available.  

A lot of this  depends on how an individual uses the Tanos system.  The fact that it is modular is one of the best parts. Users can make whatever size and drawer  size combos they want to meet their needs.

Though integrated units may indeed show up, I'd bet Tanos is working on a sortainer that will mate mor easily with T-Locs.

Gets we have to wait and see what  comes next  [smile]


Seth


Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3304
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #21 on: December 18, 2012, 03:57 PM »
i think there is a place for both types.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline Reiska

  • Posts: 1163
  • Hackers build things, Crackers break them.
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2012, 04:09 PM »
Oh, and of course in the name of keeping up a system here I would like to see that the integrated sys+attic+sort drawer package would come in standard SYS1 multiples in height but in such a way that the tool compartment would actually have identical volume to a non-attic systainer of it's size i.e. if a tool comes normally in a sys1 then the attic lid version would now be a sys2 size with slightly more space in the tool area height wise to cover for the space the attic lid eats away from the tool compartment. This would translate to a minimum size of an integrated sys+attic+sort would probably fall in the sys3 sizeish I guess to have any space for the drawers heigh-wise...

Don't have a sortainer so can't take a tape measure and figure would a sortainer drawer with in a sys2-size box with a sys1 tool compartment and an attic lid or would the drawer's height just wither to nothing in that form factor.
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline mastercabman

  • Posts: 1854
  • NORFOLK,VA
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2012, 04:19 PM »
I would like for them to be lighter
I don't understand!?! I keep cutting it,and it's still too short!

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8647
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #24 on: December 18, 2012, 04:59 PM »
Oh, and of course in the name of keeping up a system here I would like to see that the integrated sys+attic+sort drawer package would come in standard SYS1 multiples in height but in such a way that the tool compartment would actually have identical volume to a non-attic systainer of it's size i.e. if a tool comes normally in a sys1 then the attic lid version would now be a sys2 size with slightly more space in the tool area height wise to cover for the space the attic lid eats away from the tool compartment. This would translate to a minimum size of an integrated sys+attic+sort would probably fall in the sys3 sizeish I guess to have any space for the drawers heigh-wise...

Don't have a sortainer so can't take a tape measure and figure would a sortainer drawer with in a sys2-size box with a sys1 tool compartment and an attic lid or would the drawer's height just wither to nothing in that form factor.

Yeah, a one piece unit such as you describe would be excellent for power tools.


Seth

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8647
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #25 on: December 18, 2012, 05:15 PM »
Actually  a 'Loc' version  of a pure Sortainer could just have a straight swing arm to connect to the  unit above it. About an inch wide and two inches long. That would fit in the frame space and not interfere  with drawers.

Seth

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8647
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #26 on: December 18, 2012, 05:27 PM »
In addition to the shallow full width drawer, I could even go for a shallow drawer the width of three small drawers.

And a taller  large drawer (extra large?)




Seth

Offline Alan m

  • Posts: 3304
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #27 on: December 18, 2012, 06:17 PM »
i would like to be able to buy the sort/sys combo to with no drawers just a hole  and buy which ever drawers i wanted.
maybe a 1 large one, 2 shallow ones (full width ) , 2 half with but full height, 3 shallow ones, 3 narrow ones, 6 small ones, etc etc.

maybe even accesory specific ones like  a centrotec, jigsaw bases and blades(carvex bases) , router bit drawers with foam,
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline Eli

  • Posts: 2501
  • A Yankee in Kangaroo Court
    • Metafizix
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2012, 04:23 AM »
If they were going to put sort drawers at the bottom of a T-loc, they'd have to change the drawer housing. Whenever my sortainer goes over on its back or side, something inside jams up the drawer and you have to unstick it with a ruler or something. Imagine a whole stack of drawers constantly getting tipped back and forth? It would be a whole stack of stucks. A Stucktainer.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline bwiele

  • Posts: 156
Re: lets design the rest of the systainer system
« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2012, 04:23 PM »
A Stucktainer.


I just spit out some coffee on my keyboard laughing at this!