Author Topic: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.  (Read 25489 times)

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Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1559
New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« on: February 17, 2017, 03:53 PM »
Connection strength and self-alignment of guide rails is a well known feature of Mafell/Bosch rail system. Something that Festool needs to improve upon. Overall thickness of the rails is similar ~ 5 mm.
There is no reason Festool can't do the same while preserving backward compatibility. Here is how:

« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 03:59 PM by Svar »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 790
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 04:01 PM »
Makes sense, but Mafell/Bosch may have a patent for that type of guide rail connection. 
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline LooseSox

  • Posts: 119
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 04:25 PM »
So being new to the FOG and festool in general and having recently bought a ts55 and now looking to buy another guide rail, are you telling me that with what is pretty much the most expensive rails on the market, I'm going to have to jiggle them around to get them to line up when joining them together?

Offline Svar

  • Posts: 1559
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2017, 04:31 PM »
So being new to the FOG and festool in general and having recently bought a ts55 and now looking to buy another guide rail, are you telling me that with what is pretty much the most expensive rails on the market, I'm going to have to jiggle them around to get them to line up when joining them together?
Yes. It's not too bad, though. Search this forum, there was plenty of topics on this.
Among others:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/homemade-guide-rail-connectors-(not-your-typical-ones)/msg222492/#msg222492

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2017, 04:53 PM »
@LooseSox -

depends on what you consider jiggling. 

I've been using festool rails near on twenty years now and I haven't once needed an alignment guide, nor do I spend lots of time futzing about with them. My bread and butter and why I went to a track saw in the first place is fitting panels to very expensive imported kitchens.  Mostly veneer and lacquer. 

Now, my sentiment/experience is in the minority round here , very accurate cuts can be achieved with joined rails and with out xtras and my process takes less that two minutes at the start of the operation including removing the rails from their case.

I'm not arguing that a 3000mm / 8' rail doesn't have its place; but when portability and expense are factored in you may find a little jiggling isn't so bad like Svar says.

@Svar - nice drawing.  They might as well incorporate the superior splinter strip too, while they're at it.

Offline LooseSox

  • Posts: 119
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2017, 05:33 PM »
@antss

Not that I've done it yet as I'm still yet to buy a second rail, but with how good everything else festool is that I've used and the cost of the rails, I'd expect to drop in the joiners and have two rails joined together in perfect alignment without doing anything else. I could never understand  (looking at the prices) why any sane person would pay near double the cost for a single large rail vs two smaller ones joined together but if its a pain to do then that would explain it I guess.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2017, 06:33 PM »
Sox, welcome to the club.

Hate to be a crumudgeon , but you'd better get used to some shortcomings with this line.  They are like everyone else in that regard though.  Overall it's a solid lineup, but there are idiosyncrasies , annoyances , and sometimes stinkers with the offerings. Comes with the territory.

When the rails first appeared they connected with only one bar and that led to twisting of the assembly - shoulda been around for those days.  Then an improvement was made to have two spines and connectors which eliminated that issue.  There was still no other system available at the time to compare with .    But, when they changed designs they didn't bother alter their hose/cord guide and still have t to this day.  It's not as wide as the rail anymore and cords can get caught in the slot that's exposed.

FT keeps their head in the sand about it and the fanboys will come round and tell you all kinds of solutions to alieviate the issue that shouldn't exist in the first place.   

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. It's a solid saw and track but still has some issues.

Offline DB10

  • Posts: 911
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 06:35 PM »
@antss

Not that I've done it yet as I'm still yet to buy a second rail, but with how good everything else festool is that I've used and the cost of the rails, I'd expect to drop in the joiners and have two rails joined together in perfect alignment without doing anything else. I could never understand  (looking at the prices) why any sane person would pay near double the cost for a single large rail vs two smaller ones joined together but if its a pain to do then that would explain it I guess.
@LooseSox  I got by with two 1400 rails connected together for quite a while, connecting two rails together isn't too bad, moving the connected rails on your own can be a pain though, if its speed your looking for you can't beat one long rail.
 I was lucky as I happened to come across a second hand 2.7 rail on Gum Tree for a fraction of the new price. Guide rails are the only second hand thing I've bought from Festool, most jokers want almost new prices for beat up Festool crap on Gum Tree but with the guide rails I was lucky, Keep an eye on Gum tree and you may get lucky to.

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 06:46 PM »
...
Guide rails are the only second hand thing I've bought from Festool, most jokers want almost new prices for beat up Festool crap on Gum Tree but with the guide rails I was lucky, Keep an eye on Gum tree and you may get lucky to.


"Clowns to the left me and jokers to the right"

Offline McNally Family

  • Posts: 614
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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 07:06 PM »
So being new to the FOG and festool in general and having recently bought a ts55 and now looking to buy another guide rail, are you telling me that with what is pretty much the most expensive rails on the market, I'm going to have to jiggle them around to get them to line up when joining them together?

@LooseSox

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/long-guide-rails-worth-it/msg497366/#msg497366
GREEN: In order of purchase = | CT26  |  RS 2 E | Hose w/ Sleeve 3.5m | 115mm X 226mm Hand Sanding Block | 80mm X 133mm Hand Sanding Block | HSK D21.5 5m hose | CT Boom Arm Bundle Set | 1080 Plate for custom MFT | OF 1400 EQ Router (metric) w/accessories | SYS-Rock BR10 | Cordless Sander RTSC 400 Set |  Cordless Delta Sander DTSC 400 Basic | Linear Sander LS 130 | PDC 18/4 set | CXS  2.6Ah Set | Installer Cleaning Set (2018 version) |  New style Festool hose D 27/32 x 3,5m AS/CT | Replacement Hose Garage | Remote control CT-F I/M-Set | MFH1000 work stool | Next purchase: TBD

RED: // Mafell P1cc  //  MT55cc  // Next purchase: TBD

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 07:19 PM »
There are 2-rail systems (Festool/Makita and the newer Bosch/Mafell), and the Bosch ones are easier to attach... but the green saw doesn't work in it!
Search Bosch/Mafell and you can work through it all.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1920
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2017, 08:10 PM »
@Svar great thinking. If they do it I hope they send you a fat check.

@LooseSox IMO the connectors are the Achilles Heel of the rail system. To make matters worse you can't assume the rail ends are square. If they were then we could butt them together and be good but that would make too much sense so you end up with a tiny gap between rails that makes the whole thing more prone to slip. But don't over tighten those screws so you don't dimple the rails...seriously lacking.
+1

Offline Jaybolishes

  • Posts: 376
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2017, 08:25 PM »
Funny you mentioned the dimpled rails.  I had two 1400 rails at the site last week and again forgot to grab my 3000 rail. I had to join two rails and I tried carefully not to dimple the dang rails. I tightened them not even as tight as I thought would be satisfactory, flipped them over and major dimples. I never want to  join rails again but it will surely need to be done at some point..  I think I may try to grind the ends so when tight they make a straight rail. I swear festool makes them unsquare on purposes. I mean what gives here, it wouldn't be asking too much to make the ends square.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 08:33 PM by Jaybolishes »

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1453
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2017, 08:26 PM »
@Paul G  - my rails definitely have square ends but,  I have always left a very slight gap between them when connecting two together. 

It was suggested to do this for better alignment back in the Festo days, and I think that tidbit may have even found it's way into a supplemental manual or official training video too.  I know I've seen or read it somewhere in the last 5 years.

There's always a compromise, the single long rail's is price and greater possibility that it's not entirely straight along the entire 3000mm.  Or that it get bent.  So it boils down to what trade offs you're willing to live with for your specific needs.  I'm guessing FT would prefer you simply purchase both the long rail and several short ones + connectors so that all your bases are covered.

1st pic is of a 1080 rail that is 12-14 years old and has lot of battle wounds.

2nd pic is a 1400 holey rail that is 2 months old   - both square as referenced with a Starrett no.4

@Svar - the only incompatibility issue that would arise with adopting your mafell like connector would be that it would interfere with the LR32 system in the middle of a holey rail connected setup.  It could be worked around fairly easily but it'd be one of those idiosyncrasies I mentioned earlier.  ;)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 08:58 PM by antss »

Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 451
New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2017, 09:20 PM »
I have had to join rails,and have found it to be easy.
My only criticism /complaint is the slotted screws on the connector , i changed the out to t-15 ( I think that's the size). Oh and I don't care if it dimples the rail, it's a tool after all, not a museum piece. Ymmv.
Btw that Mafell connector is pretty nice tho.
Charlie


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Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1029
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2017, 09:46 PM »
After making this simple jig, joining & aligning guide rails is very easy.


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2017, 10:23 PM »


FT keeps their head in the sand about it and the fanboys will come round and tell you all kinds of solutions to alieviate the issue that shouldn't exist in the first place.   


  Regardless of a problem existing with the rails the owners of them come to this forum for information , advice, and help.

   Are you saying it is a bad thing for members of the forum to take the time , make the effort, and help people improve and maximize the use of their tools? To me the use of the term "fanboys" suggests that meaning.

Seth


Offline SRSemenza

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2017, 10:25 PM »
@Svar Nice idea!


@JD2720  Cool jig!


Seth

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2017, 10:32 PM »
I have had to join rails,and have found it to be easy.
My only criticism /complaint is the slotted screws on the connector , i changed the out to t-15 ( I think that's the size). Oh and I don't care if it dimples the rail, it's a tool after all, not a museum piece. Ymmv.
Btw that Mafell connector is pretty nice tho.
Charlie


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro


I agree it isn't like joining the rails is an insurmountable problem. There are some issues as is well documented on this forum.

@LooseSox   When you factor the cost of the rails you need to factor the cost of the Mafell saw that works on the Mafell rails.

    Plus don't fret too much about things that can get somewhat blown out of proportion and spend some time enjoying the use of your new tools.  [smile]

Seth


Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 740
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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2017, 11:35 PM »
I'm a big fan of the Betterley guide rail connector.  It's fast, easy, accurate, and in my humble opinion well worth the money.

I can't understand why anyone who is willing to make the significant investment in tools that Festool requires would balk at spending $100 on such a superbly machined and effective accessory.

For the record, I do not own a guide rail over 75 inches.  I connect guide rails and I'm proud of it.   [big grin]
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 11:37 PM by deepcreek »
Joe Adams
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Houston, Texas

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Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 633
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2017, 11:52 PM »
Purchasing a tool or building a jig to fix a design problem that should not exist makes it clear the original design is crap. Even if you get them perfectly aligned you still have the dimpling issue. Poor design all the way around. Instead of making radios, coolers, socket sets, rulers, sand paper (for hand sanding) and various other gadgets spend some time of a new rail connection system.

I have both Festool and Mafell saws, rails and connectors. The Mafell is a better saw with a better rail system and connector and it works on Festool rails if you have those. The upsides are the connector which stores on the rail, the anti-splinter guard design, and the cord deflectors that are included with each rail. The only downside to the Mafell rails is they are not as heavy duty as the Festool rails. That is not to say they are fragile, but just not as rigid as the Festool rails. I'd prefer a little more mass on the Mafell rails, but that is just me. My first tracksaw was a TS55 and I later purchased at TS75 for the extra cutting depth. After trying out an MT55 I sold the TS55 and kept the TS75 though I use the MT55 and it's rails almost exclusively. I'll also add that I purchased the 120" rail to avoid using connectors and have enough other sizes to never have to use the Festool connectors. I have parted with some of the Festool rails, but kept a few rails including the 120" for use with the TS75. If Mafell enters the market with a TS75 equivalent I'll sell of the TS75 of the rails.

Like others have mentioned the 120" rail is for the most part an in shop rail only. It is too big to carry around a job site where it could get banged up or bent.



Offline DrD

  • Posts: 409
  • I might not be fast BUT I sure am slow
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2017, 12:17 AM »
@JimH2

Dimpling can easily be dealt with by substituting nylon tipped set screws (can be obtained from McMaster Carr) for the factory screws.  They also hold MUCH better than the factory screws.  Nylon-tipped screws and the Betterley SCL23 and you're all set.

DrD
KS12 EB Kapex with Delta Folding Table & FastCap Best Fence; TS75 EQ with Parallel Guide Rail Set (FS-PA 495717 & FS-PA-VL 495718) and FS 800/2, 1080/2, 1400/2 LR32, 1400/2, 1900/2 Guide Rails, and Betterly SLC23 Straight Line Connector; DF500 Q with Assortment Systainer; OF1010 EQ with Fine Adjuster for Guide Stop, WA-OF Angle Arm, UP-OF Edging Plate and SF-OF Chip Deflector (486242); OF1400 EQ with OF1400 Dust Hood x 2, OF 1400  Edge Guide x 2, OF 1400  Guide Stop; LR32 Set; PSB399 EQ; EHL65 E; RAS115.04 E; RS2 E; ETS150/3 EQ; RO150 FEQ; Hand Sanding Block Set; CT26 with assortment of AS and Non-AS Hoses; MFT/3 Table x2; SysLite; Assortment of Quick & Screw Clamps, Consumables, Dogs.

Offline Travis Campbell

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Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2017, 01:02 AM »
@JimH2

Dimpling can easily be dealt with by substituting nylon tipped set screws (can be obtained from McMaster Carr) for the factory screws.  They also hold MUCH better than the factory screws.  Nylon-tipped screws and the Betterley SCL23 and you're all set.

DrD

Specifically, these screws:

https://www.mcmaster.com/#93285A412

Bought some; haven't had a problem in 3 years (and they seem to clamp down on the rail much better compared to the originals that come with the connectors).

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2513
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2017, 01:15 AM »
I have never had issues joining rails. Tedious if going back and forth, but transporting a longe rail can be a pain too. I like the long 3000 rail and a 1900 rail for most cuts.

Offline kevinculle

  • Posts: 236
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2017, 08:41 AM »
This is surprising, I have the Makita tracksaw with two 55" (1400mm) rails and it joins with good alignment.  A buddy has the same setup and when I redid my deck two years ago I borrowed his two 55" rails and ganged four together to finish trim an 18' (5486mm) run of deckboards...worked like a charm and nice straight edge where it met the trim board.

Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1029
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2017, 03:08 PM »
I have had my Festool guide rails for about 10 years. I never had a problem joining rails in the shop where I have a workbench.

I did have issues joining the rails out on a job site where I only had saw horses & maybe a sheet of plywood to work from. I made the joining jig for that reason. 

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2017, 07:36 PM »
I have never had issues joining rails. Tedious if going back and forth, ...
...

^This^

We take the PITA~factor x # to get the total PITA.
My workflow has the # high because I alternate between rip and cross cut.
If one plans ahead there is less joining.

(Or if one knows that they cannot think ahead, then they get something like a long rail)

Offline Job and Knock

  • Posts: 117
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2017, 03:28 PM »
@Svar Nice idea!

I have a 10ft (3000mm) rail, plus two 1400s and the 3000 is far better to use, but a pain to carry around, so a solution  which is beer tahn carrying another jig would be very welcome. I am mainly site based, though, where getting a flat cutting deck can sometimes be a problem
Simplicity is the embodiment of purity and unity
- Shaker Maxims

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 835
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #29 on: February 26, 2017, 04:36 PM »
I don't have Festool but for my DeWalt track saw rails to ensure I put them together the same way each time I put a couple match marks on the underside of both rails. I made sure those two ends mated up squarely and then marked them. You could do the same by placing both rails butted together on your miter saw and make a single cut right down the mating line so you would cut them both at once and if there was any deviation from 90° than the angles would be complementary and cancel each other out. Match mark and you're good to go. You'll only lose a couple mm of each rail and never miss it. Any carbide miter saw blade should be able to cut the aluminum rails.

I have the same problem with dimpling if over-tightened. The DeWalt rails only have one T-track so any time you move a pair of rails that are joined you have to be careful and double check you alignment when setting up for a cut. It's not a good setup. Would be much better to have that one, wide bar for joining the tracks as the OP suggests, but two tracks with clamping bars would allow the rails to remain aligned. This is something it appears you can do with Festool rails since you have one track on the top and one on the underside. Not an option for the DeWalt rails.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2017, 04:41 PM by Bob D. »
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline RickyL

  • Posts: 68
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2017, 07:16 AM »
I have 3 1400 rails and an 800.

I leave 2 of the 1400's joined the whole time. But to align them, simple put another rail upside down and hold it firmly with your hand at the joint. I can be within a 0.5mm pencil line across the 2800mm and it only takes a few seconds.

TXS, TSC 55REB, CTL Midi, BHC 18, C18Li, T18+3, PSC 420EB, Kapex KS120 EB, OF1400, EHL 65 EQ, ETS EC150/5, RO150 FEQ

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline SS Teach

  • Posts: 285
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #31 on: July 14, 2017, 03:16 PM »
I have two 1400 rails and one 800. I use a Betterly Straight Line Connector and Makita connectors. They work great, straight and solid.
RTS 400, LS 130, Sandpaper Systainer, Profile Systainer. ETS 125, Sandpaper Systainer, Ro 90, Sandpaper Systainer,  Ro 150, Sandpaper Systainer, OF 1400, TS 55 REQ, CT36, CXS Li 1.5 Set, Centrotec Wood-Drill-Set/8pcs, CT Wings, Surfix Set. Domino 500, Domino Systainer, Parallel Guide

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 1139
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 04:36 PM »
I have two 1400 rails and one 800. I use a Betterly Straight Line Connector and Makita connectors. They work great, straight and solid.
Same here. Though I am still considering selling the Betterley and second 55" rail to put the money towards the 106" or 118" rail.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2037
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2018, 06:36 PM »
I used  self made 60" 8020 extrusion jig and Makita joiners for years to join rails...finally bought the 118"/3000mm... never looked back...so much time wasted fiddling.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 733
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2018, 02:23 PM »
I am/was (?) a hobbyist and have a small SUV with bike racks on top.  I have the Festool rails, connectors, special screws, and Betterly connector.  The longest rail I can get into my car is the 1900 (75").  That's my favorite rail for many things, especially breaking down sheet goods.

I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector.  The supplier is a long way from home.  Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail.  Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble.  Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.

I could bring shorter rails and all the connection gizmos with me and live with the inconveniences, or I could strap it to the bike racks.  I don't keep the straps in my car, and even if I did, I'm concerned that a gusting cross-wind on the highway would bend the rail.
If I bring shorter rails and forget any essential connection-related accessories, sheet break down and rail transport becomes much more difficult. 

Additionally, I treat the splinter guard gingerly on the rail connection flips, AND they often come unglued regardless.  I know my cuts are straight, but I don't count on the accuracy of the cut line.  These little annoyances and non-value added steps accumulate over time to lessen my enjoyment of the tools.  It's "death by 1000 cuts".

I'm considering buying the Mafell saw, rails, connectors and bag just to make this task less of a hassle.  I want to go, get my stuff, and get home and get to work.  What a fussy hothouse flower I am.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1067
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2018, 02:34 PM »
I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector.  Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail.  Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble.  Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.
How do you load the sheets in the van?

In case you store them vertically and use straps to hold them in place: can't you just insert the rail between the sheets (with the 'rail' part of the rail resting on the sheets, so only the flat part between the sheets)?

In case you store them horizontally, can't you simply place the rail ontop of the stack and stop it from sliding with a strap?

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 733
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2018, 08:43 PM »
I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector.  Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail.  Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble.  Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.
How do you load the sheets in the van?

In case you store them vertically and use straps to hold them in place: can't you just insert the rail between the sheets (with the 'rail' part of the rail resting on the sheets, so only the flat part between the sheets)?

In case you store them horizontally, can't you simply place the rail on top of the stack and stop it from sliding with a strap?

I don't have a van, I have a small passenger vehicle.  I have to fold the seats up to accommodate the materials.

The rail length is such that I need to lay it on edge between the passenger seat and the center driver console.  No concerns getting there with an empty load.  The rail stays put on the way there.

I load by laying the pieces horizontally.  I don't have any tie downs for vertical transport.

The cut sheet materials have a slick surface and a lot of mass so that when I turn a corner, they shift inside the vehicle sliding this way and that.  If I fit the rail the same way on the way home, the sliding pieces would destroy the rail almost immediately.  I lay the rail flat on the pieces, but since it protrudes into the driver's area, it moves back and forth in the cockpit area, and is quite unnerving and distracting during the drive.

I could ratchet strap the cut pieces together and place the rail(s) on top.  One more thing I have to remember to take with me.

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 249
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2018, 10:27 PM »
Sounds like you have my Subaru.

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 8641
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2018, 11:26 PM »
I rough cut sheet goods at the supplier and load them in the back of my small SUV along with my saw, and dust collector.  Once loaded, I no longer have a safe spot in the vehicle for the rail.  Getting the rail to the supplier is no trouble.  Getting it back home safely, however, becomes a hassle.
How do you load the sheets in the van?

In case you store them vertically and use straps to hold them in place: can't you just insert the rail between the sheets (with the 'rail' part of the rail resting on the sheets, so only the flat part between the sheets)?

In case you store them horizontally, can't you simply place the rail on top of the stack and stop it from sliding with a strap?

I don't have a van, I have a small passenger vehicle.  I have to fold the seats up to accommodate the materials.

The rail length is such that I need to lay it on edge between the passenger seat and the center driver console.  No concerns getting there with an empty load.  The rail stays put on the way there.

I load by laying the pieces horizontally.  I don't have any tie downs for vertical transport.

The cut sheet materials have a slick surface and a lot of mass so that when I turn a corner, they shift inside the vehicle sliding this way and that.  If I fit the rail the same way on the way home, the sliding pieces would destroy the rail almost immediately.  I lay the rail flat on the pieces, but since it protrudes into the driver's area, it moves back and forth in the cockpit area, and is quite unnerving and distracting during the drive.

I could ratchet strap the cut pieces together and place the rail(s) on top.  One more thing I have to remember to take with me.

How about clamp the rail to the sheets?

Seth

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3605
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2018, 12:36 AM »
Make a small A frame rack for carrying the cut ply pieces. A frame similar to those used to transport stone and glass but made of wood. If you’re clever you can make it with hinges so it can fold flat when not in use. Clamp or strap material to the frame. You should be able to find a way to use the seatbelt anchors to pass a strap across the top of A frame and ply. Guide rail passes between legs of A.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1067
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2018, 10:19 AM »
The cut sheet materials have a slick surface and a lot of mass so that when I turn a corner, they shift inside the vehicle sliding this way and that.
You should really do something against the moving around, for security - take care of rail too.

We all don't plan to crashing our vehicle, but should prepare - having stuff fly around worst case is a bad idea...

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 733
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #41 on: October 16, 2018, 09:24 AM »
Sounds like you have my Subaru.

I've got an older RAV4.

Offline Kodi Crescent

  • Posts: 733
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #42 on: October 16, 2018, 10:19 AM »
Make a small A frame rack for carrying the cut ply pieces. A frame similar to those used to transport stone and glass but made of wood. If you’re clever you can make it with hinges so it can fold flat when not in use. Clamp or strap material to the frame. You should be able to find a way to use the seatbelt anchors to pass a strap across the top of A frame and ply. Guide rail passes between legs of A.

If I was going to go through all that trouble I'd just remove the bike racks from the top of my car and ratchet strap the plywood pieces to the rack on top.

While I do enjoy using my Festools, I do get tired of all these little non-value added steps, shortcomings, or "mods" I have to deal with to mitigate the shortcomings.  I just want to buy the tool, do what I need to do, and move on.  It's kind of like doing actual work on Macs vs. Windows software.  Windows software is designed to just get the work done.  But no one will sing its praises.  Apple stuff requires lots of little extra steps to get work done and it often falls short.  People sing its praises regardless.

I'm puzzled as to why certain decisions are made with many of the products and accessories.  Why are the rail connector screws slotted when every other fastener in the Festool world is Allen or Torx?  Why a 1080 rail instead of 1200?  I could start a smooth plunge on a full-width piece on the MFT, accommodate the cord deflector, and have enough left on the back to clamp the rail up so it didn't fall and hit me in the head later in the day.  Why a 1400 rail instead of 1500 or even 1600?  The 1400 length seems just a bit short for crosscutting plywood.  Certainly too short for 5x5 BB sheets. 

I'm curious what variables are being optimized that drive these design decisions.  Otherwise, these little compromises here and there add up to "death by 1000 cuts".

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 633
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2018, 10:31 AM »
Additionally, I treat the splinter guard gingerly on the rail connection flips, AND they often come unglued regardless.  I know my cuts are straight, but I don't count on the accuracy of the cut line.  These little annoyances and non-value added steps accumulate over time to lessen my enjoyment of the tools.  It's "death by 1000 cuts".

I'm considering buying the Mafell saw, rails, connectors and bag just to make this task less of a hassle.  I want to go, get my stuff, and get home and get to work.  What a fussy hothouse flower I am.
Mafell rails are definitely better designed in terms of connectors and the splinter guard. I sold both of my Festool saws and replaced them with Mafell saws (MT55cc and MF26cc)

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 3605
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2018, 10:54 AM »
Make a small A frame rack for carrying the cut ply pieces. A frame similar to those used to transport stone and glass but made of wood. If you’re clever you can make it with hinges so it can fold flat when not in use. Clamp or strap material to the frame. You should be able to find a way to use the seatbelt anchors to pass a strap across the top of A frame and ply. Guide rail passes between legs of A.

If I was going to go through all that trouble I'd just remove the bike racks from the top of my car and ratchet strap the plywood pieces to the rack on top.

While I do enjoy using my Festools, I do get tired of all these little non-value added steps, shortcomings, or "mods" I have to deal with to mitigate the shortcomings. I just want to buy the tool, do what I need to do, and move on. It's kind of like doing actual work on Macs vs. Windows software.  Windows software is designed to just get the work done.  But no one will sing its praises.  Apple stuff requires lots of little extra steps to get work done and it often falls short.  People sing its praises regardless.

I'm puzzled as to why certain decisions are made with many of the products and accessories.  Why are the rail connector screws slotted when every other fastener in the Festool world is Allen or Torx?  Why a 1080 rail instead of 1200?  I could start a smooth plunge on a full-width piece on the MFT, accommodate the cord deflector, and have enough left on the back to clamp the rail up so it didn't fall and hit me in the head later in the day.  Why a 1400 rail instead of 1500 or even 1600?  The 1400 length seems just a bit short for crosscutting plywood.  Certainly too short for 5x5 BB sheets. 

I'm curious what variables are being optimized that drive these design decisions.  Otherwise, these little compromises here and there add up to "death by 1000 cuts".

Just get your materials delivered from a real lumber yard and you won’t have to worry about transporting pieces.

Why do you select “start” on a pc when you want to shutdown?

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 5156
Re: New Festool Guide Rail. This is what Festool should do.
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2018, 11:43 AM »
Why are the rail connector screws slotted when every other fastener in the Festool world is Allen or Torx? 

I think it was their way of not dimpling the rails as easily. Theoretically, a small undersized flat blade screwdriver will cam-out before damage is done. Unfortunately, the theoretical doesn't work well here when you actually use the correct sized screwdriver and maintain firm downward pressure on the screwdriver.  [crying]