Christian Oltzscher
Festool Employee.
 Offline
Location: Indianapolis/IN USA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 157
|
 |
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2010, 09:17 PM » |
|
The discussion of Robertson (square drive) has come up plenty of times. Your wire detent Robertson bits will work perfectly fine in these bit holders.
But they don't work in pure Centronix chucks. That's the support that I (and many others) have been asking for for many years. Festool simply is not listening.  I get the impression that Festool thinks they know better than many of their customers. Festool doesn't think they know better than many of their customers. And I think we are listening. We have tried with numerous suppliers of bits to get a square drive bit in Centrotec format. We have tried on our own, and we enlisted the help of McFeely's. It was not possible to get a Centrotec square drive bit in Festool quality at an acceptable price. We are well aware of the issue and we would love to offer Centrotec square drive bits. Christian |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.
|
|
Skylar
Offline
Location: Portland OR Member Since: Mar 2009
Posts: 28
|
|
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2010, 10:38 PM » |
|
This set would be great for me. Being a mechanic for a living, the cost of this set is quite reasonable if the tools are German made (Wera?). I have a Snap-On imperial set almost identical to this, (minus the Centrotec handle of course) that cost me over $200 WITHOUT a case. That was another $26 I think! As many on here know, quality comes at a price. Anyway, I vote yes, love to have one for my woodworking projects! Great discussion guys, keep it going!
Skylar
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Kevin D.
Offline
Location: Greater Toronto Area Member Since: Nov 2009
Posts: 598
|
|
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2010, 12:48 AM » |
|
The discussion of Robertson (square drive) has come up plenty of times. Your wire detent Robertson bits will work perfectly fine in these bit holders.
But they don't work in pure Centronix chucks. That's the support that I (and many others) have been asking for for many years. Festool simply is not listening. I get the impression that Festool thinks they know better than many of their customers. Festool doesn't think they know better than many of their customers. And I think we are listening. We have tried with numerous suppliers of bits to get a square drive bit in Centrotec format. We have tried on our own, and we enlisted the help of McFeely's. It was not possible to get a Centrotec square drive bit in Festool quality at an acceptable price. We are well aware of the issue and we would love to offer Centrotec square drive bits. Christian And that's a shame, because like most Canadians surrounded by Robertson everywhere, I would not be buying as a result.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Hat, Festool T-Shirt (2), Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein.
Wish List: Kapex, and more sanders.
|
|
|
Peter Halle
Global Moderator
Offline
Location: Powhatan, Virginia USA Member Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 6393
|
|
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2010, 03:34 AM » |
|
Just a reminder that there is a way to use standard bits - including square drive - as part of the centrotec system.  I learned about this a year ago and it is my most used accessory. |
|
|
|
Logged
|
The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
|
|
|
Frank Pellow
Offline
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2390
Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
|
|
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2010, 05:20 AM » |
|
Festool doesn't think they know better than many of their customers. And I think we are listening.
We have tried with numerous suppliers of bits to get a square drive bit in Centrotec format. We have tried on our own, and we enlisted the help of
McFeely's. It was not possible to get a Centrotec square drive bit in Festool quality at an acceptable price. We are well aware of the issue and we would love
to offer Centrotec square drive bits.
Christian
Christian I know that you yourself tried to get these made a few years ago and that you reported that lack of success here about three years ago. So, I apologize for what I said about Festool knowing better than us. You, as a representative of Festool, did take this requirement seriously. But, that was three years ago (I just checked out datebase at this web site and you reported this on October the 10th, 2007). Surely, if Festool Germany was serious about this requirement, with three years plus lead time they could have gotten one of the companies that does produce other bits that meet your standards to produce Robertson bits as well. How hard can it be? |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Cheers,
Frank (Festool connoisseur)
|
|
|
Frank Pellow
Offline
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2390
Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
|
|
« Reply #35 on: September 21, 2010, 05:28 AM » |
|
Just a reminder that there is a way to use standard bits - including square drive - as part of the centrotec system.
I learned about this a year ago and it is my most used accessory.
Peter, I am aware of this and I used to own one. But, I lost it. While I still had the bit holder, I did use it quite a lot. But, it was not as convenient as having a real Centronec bit, and I found myself missplacing it from time to time. The current misplacement has lasted for a couple of years.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Cheers,
Frank (Festool connoisseur)
|
|
|
Wood_Junkie
Offline
Location: Madison, Wisconsin - USA Member Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 1304
|
|
« Reply #36 on: September 21, 2010, 12:54 PM » |
|
I'm conflicted about the Centro-Tec hand driver.... I got this at Home Depot for $9.99. I normally avoid yellow tinged tools.. So, for the price it's fine.  I do like this quick release mechanism. It is self-ejecting, and doesn't require any retracting/pulling to insert a bit. You just push it in and it locks into place. To release, you retract the sleeve and it auto-unlocks, but a magnet keeps it from taking off. In other words, you could change bits one-handed, on a ladder, easily. It fits standard ball-detente driver bits. On the other hand, regarding Centro-tec sets... I would love to have a hand driver, as included in the C-Tec 2010 drilling/driver *set*. But, just on its own I wouldn't have much use for it, as I use the Bhs65 in my drill to hold driver bits, which are almost all 1/4" generics. Almost all the things I own that are actual Centro-tec shanks are drill bits... not much use in a hand tool. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 12:57 PM by Wood_Junkie »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Corwin
Offline
Location: Washington State, USA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1995
|
|
« Reply #37 on: September 21, 2010, 02:40 PM » |
|
Well, lots of interesting replies. As for me, I have the Centrotec '07 kit (I think that the '07 is the one I have) and would LOVE to be able to get the Centrotec-Driver to go with that kit. While it would be nice to see this driver come with some kits, I want to see it available as a separate item so that I can add it to the kit I already have without having to buy yet another kit just to get this driver.
As to the square drive bits, I also would like to see Festool offer some that are Centrotec rather than have to use the standard square drive bits in the bit holder. Until that happens, I guess we will have to modify our own bits to fit.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Shirt Size: L
|
|
|
Brice Burrell
 Online
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Member Since: Mar 2007
Posts: 6210
Remodeling Contractor
|
|
« Reply #38 on: September 21, 2010, 04:46 PM » |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Corwin
Offline
Location: Washington State, USA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1995
|
|
« Reply #39 on: September 21, 2010, 04:59 PM » |
|
Or, why don't you just start a poll, Brice? Simply list the name of the top offenders that have suggested Festool offer square drive bits, and let the voting begin.  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Shirt Size: L
|
|
|
Tom Bellemare
Festool Dealer
Online
Location: Austin, Texas - USA Member Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 3557
Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
|
|
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2010, 06:18 PM » |
|
Are Torx drive screws banned from Canada? I sincerely just don't understand the Canadian affinity for square drive. Is it an invented here thing?
Tom
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Kevin D.
Offline
Location: Greater Toronto Area Member Since: Nov 2009
Posts: 598
|
|
« Reply #41 on: September 21, 2010, 07:33 PM » |
|
Are Torx drive screws banned from Canada? I sincerely just don't understand the Canadian affinity for square drive. Is it an invented here thing?
Tom
It was a Canadian invention, or at least the tapered head square version was which is far superior to the non-tapered version, as the tapered head allows the screw to be held by the bit without slipping out. Very handy when trying to get that screw in position in an awkward location or one handing it. As great as it is to be Canadian and be simply inclined to promote a fellow Canadians invention/product, the real matter is that THEY'RE EVERYWHERE here in Canada, and going with another type of screw is a PITA typically. OK...I'm ready for my banning!   |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
TS75, MFT 1080, MF-SYS/2, PS300 EQ-Plus, Parallel Guides Set, LR32 SYS, RO 150FEQ-Plus, OF1400 EQ Plus, DOMINO 500 Q-Plus, MFK 700 EQ-Set, FS-SYS/2, CT22 w/hose storage, D36HW-RS-Plus, FS 1900/2, FS 3000/2, FS 1080/2-LR32, FS 1400/2-LR32, Gecko, Festool Hat, Festool T-Shirt (2), Festool Floor Mat, Festool Stein.
Wish List: Kapex, and more sanders.
|
|
|
Corwin
Offline
Location: Washington State, USA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1995
|
|
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2010, 07:48 PM » |
|
... OK...I'm ready for my banning! Hey, get to the back of the line!  |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Shirt Size: L
|
|
|
WarnerConstCo.
Offline
Location: Auburn, In usa Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 3108
|
|
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2010, 09:15 PM » |
|
The most ironic part is that GRK is a Canadian company.
You guys want to buy a nice bit holder like the centrotec driver thingy, get a Wera Kraftform Kompact.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Corwin
Offline
Location: Washington State, USA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1995
|
|
« Reply #44 on: September 21, 2010, 09:43 PM » |
|
The most ironic part is that GRK is a Canadian company.
You guys want to buy a nice bit holder like the centrotec driver thingy, get a Wera Kraftform Kompact.
Yeah, I already have a Wera driver. But, I also have the '07 Centrotec Set, and would like the Centrotec-Driver to use with all the bits in that set. The Wera and Centrotec systems are not interchangeable, at least the tools I have aren't. So, this is a different issue than just getting a Wera product instead. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Shirt Size: L
|
|
|
WarnerConstCo.
Offline
Location: Auburn, In usa Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 3108
|
|
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2010, 11:10 PM » |
|
The most ironic part is that GRK is a Canadian company.
You guys want to buy a nice bit holder like the centrotec driver thingy, get a Wera Kraftform Kompact.
Yeah, I already have a Wera driver. But, I also have the '07 Centrotec Set, and would like the Centrotec-Driver to use with all the bits in that set. The Wera and Centrotec systems are not interchangeable, at least the tools I have aren't. So, this is a different issue than just getting a Wera product instead. I don't get the whole hang up with having centrotec shafted drivers. The bit/tip holders are perfectly acceptable for anything I have ever done with my c-12. How would someone lose the bit holder? I dont ever take mine out of the little chucky thing. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Corwin
Offline
Location: Washington State, USA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 1995
|
|
« Reply #46 on: September 22, 2010, 12:45 AM » |
|
I don't get the whole hang up with having centrotec shafted drivers. The bit/tip holders are perfectly acceptable for anything I have ever done with my c-12.
How would someone lose the bit holder? I dont ever take mine out of the little chucky thing.
Yes, it is true that a bit holder is useful with the C12 drill/driver to hold standard (non-Centrotec) hex bits. But, that has absolutely nothing to do with wanting a Centrotec-Driver. The C12 is a battery operated drill/driver. The Centrotec-Driver is a handheld driver that accepts the Centrotec chuck, and therefor accepts any Centrotec item without requiring any bit holder in between. This handheld driver should prove useful for anyone that already owns any of the Centrotec items. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Shirt Size: L
|
|
|
Frank Pellow
Offline
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2390
Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
|
|
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2010, 07:54 AM » |
|
Brice, I expect that it will be me who gets banned then, because I am not planning to give up on the particular dead horse. ...
whole hang up with having centrotec shafted drivers. The bit/tip holders are perfectly acceptable for anything I have ever done with my c-12.
How would someone lose the bit holder? I dont ever take mine out of the little chucky thing.
I lost my bit holder because I frequesnly took it out of the chuck in order to use centronec bits. For me, the loss was inevitable and I am amazed that was was able to keep track something as small as the bit holder for about 4 years. I usually keep at least three of every small item around so that I am able to locate one of them when needed. |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 22, 2010, 11:15 AM by Frank Pellow »
|
Logged
|
Cheers,
Frank (Festool connoisseur)
|
|
|
Neill
Offline
Location: USA Member Since: Jun 2008
Posts: 888
|
|
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2010, 09:51 AM » |
|
Has anyone noticed that when Tom Silva uses his C12 on TOH or ATOH, he always uses it with the Jacobsen Chuck and not the centrotec system?
We need to see if Bob Marino can get him in tune with the program.
Neill
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Kapex, Domino, MFT/3, Rotex 150 FEQ, CT 22E, TS 55, C12 Drill, 1400 Router, Rotex 90 DX, Rotex 125 FEQ, LS 130 EQ Linear, Parallel Guide Set, Deltex 93 E, Trion 300 Barrell Grip, ETS 150/3 EQ, ES125 EQ, Guide Rail Accessory Kit, Sanding Block, various rails, systainers, sortainers, vacuum hoses and accessories for various tools.
|
|
|
Jim Becker
Offline
Location: SE PA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 169
Think twice...write once...
|
|
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2010, 10:25 AM » |
|
Honestly, this would provide little value to me since I'm a Robertson/Square drive fastener user. I wouldn't complain about having one, but wouldn't buy it outright.
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
“Never raise your hands to your children, it leaves your groin unprotected.†- Red Buttons
|
|
|
WarnerConstCo.
Offline
Location: Auburn, In usa Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 3108
|
|
« Reply #50 on: September 22, 2010, 10:18 PM » |
|
OMG!!
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Sparktrician
Offline
Location: Northern Virginia (That's in the USA, Pilgrim!) Member Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 1210
|
|
« Reply #51 on: September 23, 2010, 07:35 AM » |
|
If my Kreg tool(s) didn't use square drive screws, I'd likely not bother with them at all, using GRK or other Torx screws in preference. Nothing in particular against square drive, but (with one exception) I use far more Torx screws in various sizes for both woodworking and mechanical applications. The one exception was a handicapped access ramp I built for a friend's mother a bunch of years ago. That was built using the Kreg tool and had only six nails in the entire assembly.
That having been said, I'd love to find a Centrotec-based set of Torx, Phillips, and PosiDrive drivers to fit my C12 without using the intermediate adapter. While the adapter works well in in-line applications, I often don't have room inside cabinets to use it.
|
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 07:41 AM by Sparktrician »
|
Logged
|
- Willy -
MFT/3 x2, TS55, Guide Rails x3, Parallel Guide Set, CT22 w/Boom Arm, CT Mini, RO90, RO125, ETS125, RTS400, RAS115.04, C12 + Centrotec Imperial Bits, CSX Set, DF500 Domino Set, SCG-10, Domino Plate from RonWen, MFK700 Set, CMS-GE, OF1010, OF1400, OF2200 Set, LR32 System, MFS System, Syslite, Systainers, Sortainers, clamps.
Coming attractions: Carvex, Kapex, Ti-15, more "Stuff"-tainers...
|
|
|
Tom Bellemare
Festool Dealer
Online
Location: Austin, Texas - USA Member Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 3557
Festool demo's & personal service in Central Texas
|
|
« Reply #52 on: September 23, 2010, 11:52 AM » |
|
I'd love to find a Centrotec-based set of Torx, Phillips, and PosiDrive drivers to fit my C12 without using the intermediate adapter Those driver bits are available individually. I just put mine in the "attic". I also put the twist drills in there but I put a sheet of small bubble wrap to keep them from banging around. There's also a bunch of room underneath the tray that the drill (T +) sits in. Tom |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Alex
Offline
Location: The Netherlands Member Since: Nov 2008
Posts: 2808
|
|
« Reply #53 on: September 23, 2010, 05:07 PM » |
|
That having been said, I'd love to find a Centrotec-based set of Torx, Phillips, and PosiDrive drivers to fit my C12 without using the intermediate adapter. While the adapter works well in in-line applications, I often don't have room inside cabinets to use it.
If you have room for a centrotec bit then you most certainly have room for the bitholder + bit because the latter is actually shorter. Festool's centrotec bits are 100 mm and the bitholder with bit is only 75 mm.  The only bits that are shorter than the BH60 bitholder are the NAINA Protool CE bits that are 55 mm. That's only a 20 mm difference and although those 20 mm could be crucial in some spaces I doubt it makes a difference in 98% of the cases. And then you can simply take off the CE chuck and put the bit in the drill's drive shaft directly and you'll have the shortest possibility of all. So what's the problem? |
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 23, 2010, 05:11 PM by Alex »
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Sparktrician
Offline
Location: Northern Virginia (That's in the USA, Pilgrim!) Member Since: Dec 2009
Posts: 1210
|
|
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2010, 07:20 AM » |
|
I'd love to find a Centrotec-based set of Torx, Phillips, and PosiDrive drivers to fit my C12 without using the intermediate adapter Those driver bits are available individually. I just put mine in the "attic". I also put the twist drills in there but I put a sheet of small bubble wrap to keep them from banging around. There's also a bunch of room underneath the tray that the drill (T +) sits in. Tom Well, DUH!, if I'd have looked further into the catalog, I'd have seen them. Thanks for pointing this out, Tom. I use a companion "Stuff-tainer" for the assorted drill bits and drivers that I use most frequently. Snap-On distributes a closed-cell foam liner for tool boxes that I've cut down to fit the drawers in the "Stuff-tainer". This is particularly nice in that it doesn't absorb water or other gunk. |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
- Willy -
MFT/3 x2, TS55, Guide Rails x3, Parallel Guide Set, CT22 w/Boom Arm, CT Mini, RO90, RO125, ETS125, RTS400, RAS115.04, C12 + Centrotec Imperial Bits, CSX Set, DF500 Domino Set, SCG-10, Domino Plate from RonWen, MFK700 Set, CMS-GE, OF1010, OF1400, OF2200 Set, LR32 System, MFS System, Syslite, Systainers, Sortainers, clamps.
Coming attractions: Carvex, Kapex, Ti-15, more "Stuff"-tainers...
|
|
|
fdengel
Offline
Location: United States Member Since: Jun 2010
Posts: 577
|
|
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2010, 11:52 AM » |
|
We have tried with numerous suppliers of bits to get a square drive bit in Centrotec format. We have tried on our own, and we enlisted the help of
McFeely's. It was not possible to get a Centrotec square drive bit in Festool quality at an acceptable price. We are well aware of the issue and we would love
to offer Centrotec square drive bits.
From what I understand, the issue was that the companies that can make the square bits cannot make the centrotec shanks, and the companies that can make the centrotec shanks cannot make the square bits, correct? I wonder if you couldn't do something similar to the way the spiral bits are made, where the bit's tip fits into a separate holder? In this case, have the square-bit company make the square part of the bit and taper the back down somehow so that it can be fit into a holder with the shank on it, made by the centrotec-shank company? Just a strange idea I thought I'd throw out there... might not be useful logistically... |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
Tim Morris
Offline
Location: Central Iowa, USA Member Since: Jan 2010
Posts: 293
|
|
« Reply #56 on: October 07, 2010, 05:58 PM » |
|
Shane any update on this handle/driver? Approximate date and whether or not it will be available on its own? THANKS
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
General Contractor
|
|
|
RonWen
Retailer
Online
Location: One of the Thirteen Original Colonies of the United States of America. Member Since: Feb 2009
Posts: 1518
|
|
« Reply #57 on: October 07, 2010, 08:49 PM » |
|
We've discussed this here before, but maybe if we had a poll... This is the Centrotec-Driver. Part Number 495228. And for some unknown reason, it is not (yet) available here in the United States.  So, would you purchase one of these babies if you could? I would.
The problem is that UL approval thing again... I want the "Full Monty". |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
|
|
|
mntbighker
Offline
Location: Sunnyvale, CA Member Since: Nov 2007
Posts: 103
Needs head examined for festoolian addiction <<---
|
|
« Reply #58 on: June 17, 2011, 11:49 PM » |
|
I have been getting really irritated lately not only that Festool won't adopt Robertson in some fashion. But actually now I can't blame them because there are so many of these double ended Robertson bits that are non-standard and don't even work in my Robertson bit holder :-( Centrotec is so darn close to Robertson that bugs me too. What is so hard about standardizing within a given industry?
|
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Festoolian since November 2007
TS55EQ saw - OF1400EQ router - OF2000 router - HL 850 planer - MFT 1080 - DF 500Q - RO 150 sander - RO 90 sander - CT 22 dust extractor - Kapex - CXS drill
|
|
|
SRSemenza
Global Moderator
Online
Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jun 2007
Posts: 4004
Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
|
|
« Reply #59 on: June 18, 2011, 01:52 AM » |
|
I have been getting really irritated lately not only that Festool won't adopt Robertson in some fashion. But actually now I can't blame them because there are so many of these double ended Robertson bits that are non-standard and don't even work in my Robertson bit holder :-( Centrotec is so darn close to Robertson that bugs me too. What is so hard about standardizing within a given industry?
Huh?  Seth |
|
|
|
|
Logged
|
Seth R. Semenza
S. R. Semenza Woodworking
Festool Service 800-554-8741
|
|
|
|
Poll
