Author Topic: Portable table saw w/SawStop  (Read 15440 times)

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Offline Benjamin Miner

  • Posts: 43
    • Benjamin Miner Fine Carpentry
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2008, 12:01 PM »
There's nothing respecful about being labelled an incompetent who can't resist sticking his fingers in the blade. Or being called someone who shouldn't own a table saw. Those kinds of sentiments go beyond stirring the pot. It's plain nasty.

I know highly skilled craftsmen with no injuries, and ones who have had worse than me. I've also marvelled at the yahoos doing patently unsafe things who never seem to get hurt. If it were about competence, or even fairness, the jobsite landscape wouldn't be littered with yahoos reinforcing unfortunate stereotypes about tradesmen, as they would all have been disabled by now. But it doesn't work that way. If chances of being hurt are 1 in a million (I'd guess the likelihood is somewhat higher in our field), and you do something a million times, eventually your number is apt to come up. It's as simple as that.
"I always felt like anyone who told me I couldn't live in the past was trying to get me t forget something which, if I remembered, would get them into serious trouble."

 - Utah Phillips

Offline Steve Jones

  • Posts: 405
  • Austin, TX US
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2008, 01:59 PM »
I rest my case.
Steve Jones

AdapTableTool, Inc.
adaptabletool@gmail.com

Offline vteknical

  • Posts: 144
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2008, 02:00 PM »
Mr. Jones

We have a Tablesaw sold here under that brand name, it's claim to fame is that it protects incompetents who can't resist sticking their fingers into the sharp moving bits.

SawStop is a brand of tablesaw designed for folks who shouldn't own a tablesaw.



Steve it's my perception that you drew first blood with the condenscending remarks.
Here it is in a nutshell.

Table saw related injuries=Incompetent Person
Incompetent Person=Shouldn't own a table saw
Benjamin=Tablesaw user
Benjamin's Tablesaw injury=Incompetent person who shouldn't own a table saw.


Then you turn this around and make it about you(because he provided the opening "What a Jerk") for justifying IMO your bad timing and place for your statement.   Sounds pretty inflexible to me?

My wife has mastered this technique over the years.  We have a discussion about something we both know full well she is wrong about.   Being a stubborn human she will defend her case until I say something that provides her the reason to change the topic and become a victim of her flawed thinking.

Just an outsider's perspective
Victor


« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 02:01 PM by vteknical »
Never argue with an idiot, they will drag down to their level and beat you with experience.

Offline Bob Swenson

  • Posts: 184
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2008, 02:26 PM »
Benjamin,

A couple of years back when I was on the phone Per asked me
who I was calling. When I tolled him I was was calling the Sawstop
people to order a saw he said "What, are you nuts". I replied that you
would have to be crazy not to own one. Well we got our name on the order list
and found out that we would have wait over  three months for delivery.
I didn't know a thing about the saw except that you couldn't cut your fingers off with it,
not like my first table saw, a Sears 8", that I bought long before Per was born.
I do not use a blade guard with the Sawstop, I didn't use one with the Sears ( don't remember
it ever having one).
The point is that the SS one beautiful jewel of a machine.
I balanced a nickel on the saw when I ripped the first piece of wood on it
and it didn't move.
I marvel at it every time I use it
Buy one.
Bob

 

 

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 424
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2008, 05:10 PM »
I am a professional carpenter, have been for seven years and hope to be one for the rest of my career. I have every intention of purchasing a Sawstop Contractor saw, or hopefully some variety of not-yet-developed jobsite saw. Not because I plan on sticking my fingers into the blade, but because I work around a lot of other people, and as careful as everybody tries to be there's always the chance that someone might bump me while I'm cutting, and I don't want to risk the rest of my career because somebody else (or myself) was careless for even a moment. Much the same as driving a car, even the most aware and conscientious driver can still be injured by somebody else who's not paying attention.

By the way, their jobsite cart looks quite nice!! Imagine, a contractors saw you can actually move around the jobsite!  :o
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 05:16 PM by Tom Gensmer »
Kapex, CT-36 AC, CT-26, CT-Midi, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1400, EHL-65, DTS-400, Domino (WITH PINS!!), C-15, MFT/3 (x2), MFT Kapex, Sprinter full of Systainers

Offline Benjamin Miner

  • Posts: 43
    • Benjamin Miner Fine Carpentry
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2008, 11:18 PM »
First - a personal thank you to Victor. Much obliged.

Tom - where did you find that image? It looks more like a sketchup drawing, but the idea of a mobile sawstop is pretty compelling. I wonder how much they weigh? I've been considering the new Bosch 4100 with their much improved guard, but if the Sawstop were light enough for 2 people to ove upstairs, that'd be a cinch.
"I always felt like anyone who told me I couldn't live in the past was trying to get me t forget something which, if I remembered, would get them into serious trouble."

 - Utah Phillips

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 424
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2008, 11:48 PM »
Hi Benjamin! I think I saw a photo of this setup in a woodworking magazine, and copied this particular image from the Sawstop homepage, here
Kapex, CT-36 AC, CT-26, CT-Midi, RO-150, RO-90, OF-1400, EHL-65, DTS-400, Domino (WITH PINS!!), C-15, MFT/3 (x2), MFT Kapex, Sprinter full of Systainers

Offline petiegolfer

  • Posts: 55
  • Southampton UK
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #37 on: July 24, 2008, 09:56 AM »
I am and have always been a risk aware person...I always think about what could happen!

So I am always careful with powertools and tools in general.

Have skiied alot and played a lot of sport Mt biking etc...one thing I know from experiance...accidents happen when you are tired and or dehydrated. We would always as a group (the guys I skiied with) talk ourselves off the mountain with out doing a last crazey run.

If I am working on something with a potentially dangerous outcome...I try to never ever do it at the end of the day or when I am tired...there is always tomorrow...or i take a break.

You dont have to be incompetant to have accidents.

One thing that I saw on a table saw once was a coloured area around the blade....the owner said that it was for him to remember that when the saw was runnning...his hands never went in that area...push sticks yes hands no!

Piers
"3 Its the Magic Number!"

Offline Dave Ronyak

  • Posts: 2234
  • Flyin' from NE Ohio
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2008, 12:26 PM »
Perusing this thread was mostly sad.  Sorry about that badly cut finger.  Hey, anyone can have an accident.  If you knew it was going to happen, most would avoid doing it!

For those who don't already know and have slammed the lawyers, it was a lawyer who invented the Sawstop.  He is a patent attorney and thus also has at least a four years college level technical degree (physics, I think).   When he could not get any of the established manufacturers to adopt his invention despite proving repeatedly that it really worked, he and his partners went into business themselves to make table saw's with this innovative safety feature available to whomever wants to buy one (and can afford it).

That feature also should be made available on bandsaws.  I know of people (not myself yet) who have made the same mistake of pushing their finger on the work through the blade.

Dave R.
Friends, family and Festools make for a good retirement.  PCs...I'm not so sure.

Online Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 785
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2008, 12:59 PM »
...
That feature also should be made available on bandsaws...


They have put together a working prototype of such a bandsaw, you can see a short videoclip in the "future products" part of their website.link

Offline James Watriss

  • Posts: 277
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2009, 02:49 PM »
I, too, own one of them sawstop saws. it's a gem, yes, you can cut dadoes on it, and realistically, I think it's a better saw than most. Heavier construction, lot of thoughtful features... even without the sawstop technology, I think it's a very well made machine. I don't mind the riving knife, I think it's a great compromise for times when the guard gets in the way. I've experienced kickback, so anything that helps to keep that beast at bay is welcome in my shop.

Steve, I think you make a valid points that all table saw accidents are stupid. That's why they're called accidents. And when I gave myself a manicure on an old Tannewitz, it was definitely stupid. I was in a hurry, ripping thin stock, moved my left hand further forward than I normally would have, and zip. Part of my fingernail and nail bed. But I'm no incompetent. I do pretty good work. Minds wander, and not everyone is immune from being stupid once in a while. Hot day, just got in an argument on the phone, head not in the game... I made a dumb mistake. Doesn't mean I shouldn't own a saw, any more than the idea that any adolescent who gets into a fender bender shouldn't have a license. (That's another debate though, because there are many teenagers who shouldn't be allowed to drive anyway.) There are already too many people in the world who own table saws, that shouldn't. Too many of them learn from friends who don't know, or learned on mini saws that don't have the power that cabinet saws do, and are a lot more forgiving of the stereotypical stupid mistake.

I think there are some things that are worth using, like table saws. But the learning curve can be steep on the bigger units, if you don't know what you're doing. Everything we know can be traced back to someone who didn't, and learned the hard way. The other problem is, the accident rate plotted against age or experience looks like an inverted bell curve. A lot of idiots getting injured when they're young amd stupid )lr ignorant, which is different) and a lot of very wise and experienced people getting injured on that one day when their comfort level was too high, and the incremental march toward the very edge of safe behavior came to an end. It happens. Sometimes it's recoverable. Sometimes, it's an independent contractor who has to choose between having the finger re-attached, but going through physical therapy, or being able to go back to work in a week or two, and being able to pay the rent.

Everyone is stupid once in a while. And for someone who works on an (admittedly, brilliantly implemented) cutting table, rather than use a table saw, I find your remarks a little odd. Clearly you didn't dream that up just by sitting around and drinking coffee. Clearly, a competent human being. But if you don't have the common sense that comes from making a few stupid mistakes here and there, I wonder if you really should be using that thing unsupervised.

Offline James Watriss

  • Posts: 277
Re: Portable table saw w/SawStop
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2009, 02:53 PM »
...lest you think I'm mindlessly bashing you, I agree. It's good to have an actual conversation once in a while.