Got a website link?

I have to admint, I was a "No square drive Festool hater" until I found the Centrotec Bit Holder "Bhs 65mm".  Here is a link;

http://www.festoolusa.com/products/cordless-drills/centrotec-drill-bits/pilot-bit-with-depth-stop/centrotec-bit-holder-bhs-65mm-492648.html

It has a locking collar, and with short hex shank bits, it's not longer combined than a Centrotec Festool bit.  The only downsides are that it is slightly floppy, but way better than more magnetic holders.  And, if you have a recess and need a longer shaft bit, the combo would likely be longer than a Centrotec bit.  I'd prefer a centrotec solution, but this $29.50 locking collar bit holder is darn good.

Another dedicated endorser of the GRKs. They are excellent!

their videos are something else.  They can make a screw 3' long!    Of course the demo would have been better had they used a T15 to drive them.     These guys have them but I have never purchased anything from them.

These guys have better prices and a MUCH better selection: http://www.buygrkfasteners.com/.  Here's a GRK info site: http://www.grkfasteners.com/ .  

Here's another vendor that carries nothing but Torx screws: http://screw-products.com/   I've bought maybe two thousand screws from them.  Not a good as GRK, but pretty decent and the prices are better.

Dan.

Job,

They're Torx.  Check out the drawings and pics on the first page of the catalog: http://screw-products.com/pdfs/spi-retail.pdf.  I've used Screw-Products, GRK, and other brand screws with Torx bits.   GRK are better quality, but the heads are the same.

I'm pretty sure they call them "Star Drive" because they think it's a more marketable name for Americans.   They sell bits in T10 to T40 sizes: http://www.screw-products.com/drive-bits.htm.  Hmmm...   I wonder what the "T" means?  

Dan.

p.s. I've been on the Torx-train for years.   I don't understand the reticence to move in that direction.

Steve,

Thanks for the heads-up.  It's fixed now.  

Unfortunately this is a problem with some forum software packages (like SMF) because they include periods when they parse the url address.  When you place a url at the end of a sentence (like I normally do) and end the sentence with a period, the SMF software includes the period with the link.  It's irritating.  

Other software packages (like vBulletin) don't have this problem.  When you include a URL address and close it with a period, the software ignores the period when creating the link.  

So why doesn't Festool move to the another forum software package?   Because it's huge effort when you have a well-established, customized forum like FOG.   Other forum packages have some nice features, but I don't think it's worth the risk and effort to convert.  I wouldn't do it and don't recommend it to others.

Regards,

Dan.

OK Dan, you've convinced me - sort of.
The link to the PDF you supplied sported some Torx heads, though some of the recesses look a bit "off-standard".
There's only two Torx profiles:  the Torx and the Torx-Plus ( slightly wider lobes, far less common ),  the profile's ratio's are the same throughout the size range.
( And there's TTAP, and ofcourse tamper-resistant versions of the lot )


It's just that the picture you linked to in your earlier post doesn't really resemble a Torx profile, it's "edgy" instead of "lobe-like", and that nullifies part of the advantages.
And apart from that, the name "star drive" has been used for the sharp-edged variant in 6- and 12-point (more common, aka spline-drive)  configuration as well, and they've been around longer than Torx, for as far as I know - hence my confusion.

Anyhow: I'm glad you're aboard the Torx-train - it's a smooth ride, isn't it ?

I think I can conclude with a piece of advice that both parties can relate to:

Screw Robertson ! 


Regards,

Job

I agree with Job (jvsteenb) and Shane. The photo at http://screw-products.com is this:



Although the patent has lapsed, TORX is still a trademarked name in the USA, Canada, UK and other other countries and Acument Global Technologies allow selected manufacturers to manufacture TORX products under license. They naturally take a poor view of manufacturers making look-alike products, as the following except from their TORX Drive System brochure shows (note the curved walls of the "Authentic TORX Drive bit"):



Their Licensing Program Review brochure shows that they hunt down companies of items which are sold TORX, but are not the genuine licensed article or manufactured to the correct standards:

---

Trademark Usage and Counterfeits
Our licensed product trademarks are currently registered in 78 countries and registered with United States Customs.
Our trademarks are known and recognized worldwide.
It is imperative that any product infringement is stopped immediately. By not doing so, end users not only receive an inferior product, but the product could become unrecognizable in the marketplace and take on a generic connotation. We then run the risk of losing our reputation in the marketplace.
We are very active in the pursuit of counterfeit activity.
We attend trade shows, review trade journals, and do key-word searches on the internet. We also rely heavily on our licensees to report violations. We are committed to pursue all trademark infringements and counterfeits brought to our attention and will use any resources, including legal action, to protect these trademarks and patents. We are protecting not only our interests, but the interests of our licensees.
As a licensee, training on how to spot illegal product is an important part of the package. The confidential product binders go into detail explaining the proper usage of the trademarks so there is no mistaking a genuine product versus a fake.

---

To get round these legal problems, manufacturers of TORX-like items often call them "star drives" or "star bits" or something similar. They don't have to pay a license fee or make them to the strict TORX standards, but that naturally means that the shape of the star recess will vary a bit from manufacturer to manufacturer. That, in turn, means that getting a good fit between bit and screwhead can be difficult.

A good example of this is the screw-products.com own brochure, where close examination of a selection of their "Star Drive" heads will reveal several different designs:




Forrest

Especially for these applications, there's TTAP. It's an authentic Torx profile ( acually I should state TORX profile ) with a small cilindrical cone added to the tip of the driver/bottom of the recess. It may be driven with a standard Torx bit, but then you don't get the added advantage of the hold-fast wedging action.
However: I get around with standard Torx, they don't tend to fall off, even when screwing top-down a simple magnetig bitholder is enough to hold the screw, and they NEVER stick in the screw when done ( the main reason a standard hex-drive will drive me nuts from time to time instead of just driving nuts ( and bolts and screws, of course ).

Another nice design is the UniScrew, it's sort of a stepped hex-drive that has only one bit-size. The depth of the recess varies with the screwsize, and determines how much of the size-steps are actually used. In a pinch, they can be loosend with a standard hex key. Nice design - having only one bit size without the usual trade-offs is a big pro. I like 'm a lot, but they're far from common.
 

Regards,

Job

I would imagine so..... It's also easy to snap the head of an M8 bolt with a  3' extension bar on your spanner......
Still I would be way more p*ssed if the head rounded over, or the spanner gave up.


Regards,

Job

I have two boxes of Kreg screws (shipping to Sweden cost more than the screws) so I'm going to jump on the wagon here with the square-drive plea. Another thing, I ordered the 2008 centrotec doodad systainer and was really bummed to find that there was no centrotec locking bit holder(bhs65mm) in the box.

Dave, in regards to the BHS 65, I believe it is made to lock on to both wire and ball-detent bits. I borrowed the BHS from Dan Clark so I could comment on its function for my T15 review. While I didn't try to pull the bits outs of the BHS, I didn't have any trouble with ball-detent drill bit pulling out as I withdrew the bit from the hole after drilling. Have you tried using a ball-detent drill bit with your BHS? Maybe yours is bad.

Rockler carries a limited supply of GRX or try here

Joining this thread a lil late... only came up on my recent unread list after the previous posting.

I've had on my to-do list the regrinding of a couple drive bits for the C12, which is a relatively recent acquisition.  When I read this thread, I said, "oh yeah..." and went to do the grinding much like lcc and Jim Becker mentioned earlier.

I have a couple sets of #1 and #2 Robertson drives so I picked one to gently file down the hex corners then work in a ball detent.  Maybe 10 minutes for both including finding a file that walked away.  Fit like a dream and don't wiggle.  I also did the same to the Kreg #2 that came with my pocket screw set... okay, much longer cuz that puppy is made out of diamonds or something, but nothing a Dremel with a grinding bit couldn't hog out.  It, too, fits perfectly.

Picture below shows, left to right, the Festool drive bit adaptor, McFeelys #1, McFeelys #2, and an unmodified McFeelys #2 and the bastards that did it

Highly recommended.