Why are the GRK fasteners better than square?

You guys need to look at Wera's stuff.

The thing with the GRK's is they can be used anywhere in any material.

Warner,  I just checked out their site.  Looks like some good stuff.  Do you use them? What do you think?

-Dave

Update:  Who sells them?  I couldn't find pricing on the stainless steel ones.

As for Wera, I have a dealer for them I know in Michigan, Wera's stuff can be hard to get ahold of.  One of thier diamond dust #2 phillips tips has lasted me over a year.  I promise it is the same one I have not lost it (C12 bit storage works wonders huh?)

Steve,

This may be a bit off topic and maybe a bit argumentative.  Don't get me wrong, I love my Festools and Customer Service goes above and beyond to assist us users.

It does seem that Festool often times wants to tell us what we want rather than providing what we need.  The philosophy seems to be, if we don't make it, you don't need it.  The square drive bits for the Centrotec seems to be indicative of this.  I have actually read where a poster to this Forum made a comment about how Festool has done us a favor by selling their tools in North America.
Oh, please!

I have used the square drive bits with the Jacobsen chuck in my kit and with the Festool bit holders but it is just not the same.  I wonder if a supplier like McFeeley's who champions the square drive screw and also sells Festool would be interested in developing a compatible bit.  They may be hesitant because of their relationship with Festool.  They don't seem to have any difficulty with selling their square drive screws packaged in a systainer or sortainer.

I am a hobbyist, so I can manage without a square drive Centrotec bit, but I sure would like to have one.

Neill

Festool has known about this requirement for at least 5 years.

I am very disappointed in their lack of support.  

My reaction is never to purchase another one of their drills (I do have a TDK 12) until they provide such bits.  I know that it's not much pressure but, other than notes like this that seem to get ignored, its all that I can do.  I am frustrated.  

Here's everything Wera, http://chadstoolbox.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=577

Not to mention, many other options to lighten your wallet.

Hello,

We are well aware of the need of square drive bits with Centrotec shaft. It is not that we don't want to sell square drive bits. We are a company, our purpose is to sell product. And
McFeely's is a company that wants to sell product. If we get requests for something, we look into it. Exactly this is what we did a long time ago, together with McFeely's.

So, why do we not have square drive bits in the program? It was not possible to find a supplier that could provide bits with Centrotec shank and square drive tips at an acceptable quality for an acceptable
price. We had numerous samples and did tests both here in the US and in Germany in the R&D department. The manufacturer of our bits doesn't have any expertise in square drive tips. Square drive bit manufacturers
couldn't manufacture the Centrotec shank at an acceptable price at the quality level Festool requires.

Yes, we want to fulfill all of your wishes, and we would like to provide square drive bits. And no, we are not going to fulfill those wishes if we have to compromise on quality. We want to be sure that if we provide a product,
it is at the quality level you came to expect from us.

Christian

Christian,

Thanks for the information.  I didn't get the impression that Festool is still looking for a supplier?  Knowing Festool, they are but it didn't sound like it.  Secondly, it is shocking to me that it's so hard to produce a square drive bit at a affordable cost.  Just by looking at the bit it does not look like rocket science and if you ask me, the square drive would seem to be one of the easy bits to make because it square.  But, there's alot of things that go into the design of a product that a end user doesn't know about or appreciate or understand the complexity of it.

-Dave

As mentioned by Martin, I find the Festool Centrotec adaptor with mechanical bit locking is the answer for me, so I can easily use square square drive bits I already have.

I bet you a production run is thousands.

I use it. But it has the disadvantage of extending the length of the drill/driver/bit combination and obviating some of the compact advantage of the Festool product.
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At this point, I remain skeptical about the supposition that quality Robertson/square drive bits cannot be manufactured in a Centrotec format at an acceptable price point. In fact, I would think that they would be easier to make than the more complicated Posidrive and Torx formats, even with the subtle tapering that's required. CNC machines are pretty good at that...

Jim, this is where I don't understand the problem, Festool's Centrotec bits are as long or longer than the locking bit holder and screw driver tip. The advantage Centrotec bits have over the the locking bit holder is a smaller diameter so they'll fit into a deep recess like a pocket screw hole. The need for is deep recess ability is very limited and can easily be accomplished by using a regular long bit in the keyless chuck.

I don't mean any disrespect but I think people have really blown this issue out of proportion.


That's my knee jerk reaction too but giving it more thought I'm not so sure. My understanding is the price to manufacture something goes way up once the tolerances pass a certain point, that could be the case here. And we have no idea what Festool considers an acceptable price.  

There is no problem with that on non tapered shafts the detent is matched up to festools bit. I have a set of high speed drills and bits with hex all ground to fit centrotec. I wish that I could make vix bits work but the shafts are too short.

I like the GRK as well.  The guys here like both Wurth and GRK...I tried the the GRK for the first time this week, as Rockler carried them, and I stocked up on about $70 of various lengths...I've used square drive and like them as well, but I have to confess that I am now a GRK Torx convert.  They went into hard maple and maple ply clean as a whistle, no pre-drilling and no tear-out when they went below the surface.