The BHS65 works very well...and I'm pretty much dependent on it at this point...but it does extend the length of the drill/driver which reduces the benefit of the Festool tool design.

Well, yes that's true. It makes the overall length of drill long longer but compared to using a keyless the size is nearly the same.

Why make an inferior drive bit when everyone should be using Torx anyways?

Get a magnetic tip then.   

But to them, square drive is inferior.  Not many square drives screws across the pond.

I really don't understand the love for a square drive.  They always turn into circle drives.

Agreed.

I love things that I can swear by. It seems that when it comes to square drives & their fasteners is it more like swear AT!

I'm "across the pond" here in metricland and I use square drives only because I use Kreg jigs and I can't find the proper screw profile here in Europe. I would be just as happy w/ torx if I could find the proper head shape and thread/shank ratio.
This thing has turned into an ugly "Chevy/Ford" argument. I see it as companies forcing us into buying "their product" based on marketing strategy.
Next week, Dack and Blecker will release the 4th dimensional anti-gravity drive and the screw will become obsolete.

GRK's are even distributed out of Canada.

I, too, don't understand why Festool doesn't offer square drive (Robertson) bits for Centrotec chucks and holders, but it isn't that difficult to modify bits you can obtain inexpensively from others, as discussed and demonstrated earlier in this thread.  It is obviously due to my lack of proper [alignment] technique, but I find that I have a lot more problems driving square drive screws than driving Phillips head screws (genuine Phillips brand) with a genuine Phillips bit.  When driving pocket hole screws made by Kreg with a Kreg bit, the bit frequently won't engage the screw or disengages from the screw due to only slight misalignment.   My experience with McFeeleys square drive decking screws versus Phillips brand decking screws is similar.  The key is proper fitment of the driver bit to the recess in the head of the screw; many of the foreign (Chinese?) manufacturers today don't pay enough attention to the dimensions and tolerances that are needed for reliable connection of bits and screws.

Dave R.

I just wanted to post how much I hate the BHS65 or what ever the heck that over priced piece of garbage is called and how happy i am that ATLAS manufactures excellent quality centrotec Robbies. Though I'm also somewhat upset at ATLAS for selling me to BHS65's because they both crapped out within months.

I suspect that all modern square-recess heads have tapered internals.

To make a truly parallel-sided, square shouldered impression in steel would almost require drilling and broaching the hole. (1) There are other modern processes but they would be prohibitively expensive for screws.

Considering the strength required, I suspect that the heads of internal square-drive screws are forged or cold formed with a tapered punch of some sort. Inserting anything in a hole without cutting, almost certainly requires a taper on the impregnator.

In the case of Robertsons, I would assume it's a serendipitous advantage. Apparently, when tolerances of the cavity and the driver are tight enough, the tapered surface(s), and there are four, tend to help hold the fastener to the driver.

That same advantage exists with other fastener designs that are more torque intensive. The key is the fastener-to-driver tolerances.


Tom


(1) I've worked where we designed holes in steels and, mostly, BeCu and then broached them for 1/4" and 3/8" ("standard") square drives. We could afford to do it because money was of little concern and our manufacturing volume was low.

Yep, good ones too.