Author Topic: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?  (Read 2537 times)

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Offline mshull

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Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« on: December 20, 2018, 03:02 PM »

In making frames for SYS-AZ, the instructions say to drill the front row of holes 58 mm from the front of the cabinet, and the back row 224 mm behind that.    The LR 32 set up guide doesn't reach that far back.    (I'm doing these as back to back cabinets, so I cannot measure from the back, which would include extra steps and chances for error anyway.)    Why isn't there a long bar for the LR 32 setup guide that reaches to the back row of cabinet pins?

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Offline Gregor

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 03:40 PM »
I completely agree, the rods of the LR32 system are a misdesign as they're not long enought for the LR32 to be setup for all distances. They're quite practical in case you have to knock out someone cold though, but I would be more happy should they have spent the amount of material they used on them on length instead of excessive thickness.

You can rotate the rail and connect the arms out the back, but that only works for rows that are farer away from the front than center of LS32 to back of the rail.

For everything inbetween you'll have to use the reference notch (at both sides of the LS32 plate) to align it to marks on both ends of the row (and with that the rail), when that's done the easiest way is to measure the distance between the rail splinter guard and the front edge and cut some alignment pieces (ply or something) to that distance to speed up the setup for the next workpiece.

Offline jjowen

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 04:42 PM »
+1

It would be good if they were long enough to at least do a standard cabinet depth (and still fit in a systainer).
I end up measuring the distance between the centre of the bit and the edge of the track, marking the centre line for the holes, and setting up the track at measured offset.

I am LR32ing this weekend.
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Offline Gregor

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 05:03 PM »
You don't need to measure from the bit, the notches at the sides of the LR32 are perfectly aligned with the spindle (when the router is correctly mounted on the plate) and 5mm in diameter (taking a shelve pin).


from https://holzwerkerblog.de/werkstatt-2/frasen/festool-lr32-lochreihen-bohrsystem/

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 05:38 PM »
When it comes to Festool "One size fits all" hasn't been my recollection.  I could be wrong but in looking tat the sanding tool offerings...

The majority of people using the LR-32 system are going to be using them on cabinets - either base cabinets of around 24 inches deep (isn't it ironic that the MFT/3 will allow you to cross-cut this dimension?)  Uppers are usually around 12 inches.

When you come into larger depth cabinets the mass market is thrown out the window and improvising is in order. 

There are videos on youtube at Festool.tv that will show you how to for instance set the LR-32 to the center of a panel but nothing that I know about that would deal will the extra dimensions of a back to back.

Peter

Offline Farming_Sawyer

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 07:14 PM »
Saw a handy tip somewhere about using parallel guides to register the track over multiple pieces in a production run. Dont know why they couldn't be utilized in this uncharted territory....
CT 26E, RO125, sys-mft, sys-toolbox, a bunch of 30 year old tools I'm looking to replace.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 07:22 PM »
Saw a handy tip somewhere about using parallel guides to register the track over multiple pieces in a production run. Dont know why they couldn't be utilized in this uncharted territory....

They could.  Yes there would be need for calibration.  You have illustrated another aspect of the “system” that people either embrace or poo poo.

Peter

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 07:26 PM »
The op’s situation was extreme in needs, but sometimes there is a less extreme.  Here is a video posted for thought: 

Offline Farming_Sawyer

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2018, 08:16 PM »
Also, don't the lr32 guides have a 5mm pin on them that can reference an existing set of holes? (My set is on the way for a build next week). If that's the case, the guide rail could be marched as deep into a cabinet side as one wished if a few extra holes were Plunged.
CT 26E, RO125, sys-mft, sys-toolbox, a bunch of 30 year old tools I'm looking to replace.

Offline rmhinden

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2018, 08:58 PM »
Also, don't the lr32 guides have a 5mm pin on them that can reference an existing set of holes? (My set is on the way for a build next week). If that's the case, the guide rail could be marched as deep into a cabinet side as one wished if a few extra holes were Plunged.

Nice idea, but I just measured mine and they are too big.  The pins are around 6mm.  It would have worked well to register against the first row of holes.

I just finished using my LR32 for a similar project.  I turned the guides around and used them from the other edge, for this they were long enough to drill holes 224mm beyond the first row of holes.   

Also, there is a FOG thread that says you can buy longer rods from McMasters (6061 Aluminum Hex Bar
14 mm Wide).  See:  https://www.mcmaster.com/8252t71    I have no idea how well that would work, but thought it was interesting.

Bob

Offline Farming_Sawyer

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2018, 07:07 AM »
Also, don't the lr32 guides have a 5mm pin on them that can reference an existing set of holes? (My set is on the way for a build next week). If that's the case, the guide rail could be marched as deep into a cabinet side as one wished if a few extra holes were Plunged.

Nice idea, but I just measured mine and they are too big.  The pins are around 6mm.  It would have worked well to register against the first row of holes.

Now you have me thinking of a Parf guide work around.... For those who want to build the mammoth walk in cupboard with adjustable shelves.... Use Parf sticks to locate the 6mm holes to reference the lr32 system deep in uncharted territory.... All the tools in the shop will be used and justified!!!
CT 26E, RO125, sys-mft, sys-toolbox, a bunch of 30 year old tools I'm looking to replace.

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2018, 09:26 AM »
Saw a handy tip somewhere about using parallel guides to register the track over multiple pieces in a production run. Dont know why they couldn't be utilized in this uncharted territory....

They could.  Yes there would be need for calibration.  You have illustrated another aspect of the “system” that people either embrace or poo poo.

Peter

I don't own the LR32 setup yet,  but I guess I just thought using parallel guides for doing this was how it was to be done. I'm surprised to here this doesn't seam to be the festool intended usage from what folks are saying here.  I thought you would set them up, then go around do all your cabinet sides at that offset, then go to the next offset.  Everything comes from the front edge. Figured this was one of the reasons Festool didn't take away the metric parallel guides in N.A.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2018, 02:11 PM »
Saw a handy tip somewhere about using parallel guides to register the track over multiple pieces in a production run. Dont know why they couldn't be utilized in this uncharted territory....

They could.  Yes there would be need for calibration.  You have illustrated another aspect of the “system” that people either embrace or poo poo.

Peter

I don't own the LR32 setup yet,  but I guess I just thought using parallel guides for doing this was how it was to be done. I'm surprised to here this doesn't seam to be the festool intended usage from what folks are saying here.  I thought you would set them up, then go around do all your cabinet sides at that offset, then go to the next offset.  Everything comes from the front edge. Figured this was one of the reasons Festool didn't take away the metric parallel guides in N.A.

Perhaps there is some confusion when the term parallel guides comes into play here.  The LR-32 system comes with two "guides" that you setup and calibrate to setup and use your LR-32.  Yes they are used to set up the routing path to be parallel to the edge of the board.

Then there are the Festool Parallel Guides which most people use with the regular track and a plunge saw for making repeat parallel strips.  That accessory has longer arms and could potentially be used in some circumstances with the hole rail and the LR-32 system but there might be some getting use to.

Peter

Offline Farming_Sawyer

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2018, 08:00 PM »
This might explain
CT 26E, RO125, sys-mft, sys-toolbox, a bunch of 30 year old tools I'm looking to replace.

Offline lwoirhaye

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2018, 02:06 PM »
That's an issue with the Festool system and the reason I never seriously considered buying one.   Normally you'd only need 224mm spacing for drawer slides, and in that case you wouldn't normally need to drill the entire row, just the holes for a few slides.   The LR32 can be used to drill the first row of holes and then use a drill jig and a square to make the rest with a 5mm rod dropped through a hole in the jig into the corresponding hole in the front row of the cabinet.   It sounds like a clumsy workaround but it's quicker.

I use an Align Rite jig with 5mm bushings.

Offline Gregor

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2018, 02:23 PM »
You can also fasten the drawer rail in the front row, align with a square and drill with the self centering 5mm bit.

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2018, 03:07 PM »
That's an issue with the Festool system and the reason I never seriously considered buying one.   Normally you'd only need 224mm spacing for drawer slides, and in that case you wouldn't normally need to drill the entire row, just the holes for a few slides.   The LR32 can be used to drill the first row of holes and then use a drill jig and a square to make the rest with a 5mm rod dropped through a hole in the jig into the corresponding hole in the front row of the cabinet.   It sounds like a clumsy workaround but it's quicker.


You can also fasten the drawer rail in the front row, align with a square and drill with the self centering 5mm bit.

When you start doing this you start defeating the whole purpose of 32mm cabinetry.   You want all the holes, multiple rows.  Today you might be shelves, tomorrow a drawer, next week multi drawers, etc.   If you only drill holes for the slides for a drawer today, what does someone do when they want to re-configure later.  Someone might have a kitchen put in and had it done with top drawer and doors below, later the decide they want to go all drawers.  With all the holes put in, the change is easy.  Without, it means someone is going to have to get in there and drill holes in place, that's a pain.

Offline jjowen

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2018, 03:43 PM »
Without, it means someone is going to have to get in there and drill holes in place, that's a pain.

Yeah, like this:

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Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2018, 05:18 PM »
Without, it means someone is going to have to get in there and drill holes in place, that's a pain.

Yeah, like this:
(Attachment Link)

I assume there was no counter tops there.  Otherwise someone is making a custom holey rail.

Offline Gregor

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2018, 04:31 AM »
That's an issue with the Festool system and the reason I never seriously considered buying one.   Normally you'd only need 224mm spacing for drawer slides, and in that case you wouldn't normally need to drill the entire row, just the holes for a few slides.   The LR32 can be used to drill the first row of holes and then use a drill jig and a square to make the rest with a 5mm rod dropped through a hole in the jig into the corresponding hole in the front row of the cabinet.   It sounds like a clumsy workaround but it's quicker.

You can also fasten the drawer rail in the front row, align with a square and drill with the self centering 5mm bit.

When you start doing this you start defeating the whole purpose of 32mm cabinetry.   You want all the holes, multiple rows.
I know.
My point was just: should someone decide to skip the back row for holes (as in the post I commented on) to only make holes where the rails will be (and possibly also only making holes in these heights in the front row, which I can see some applications for where the rails go in once and stay in place till the object is composted inside a landfill)... one could also skip a jig to make the back holes since the actual drawer rail can be directly used for this.

Offline jjowen

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Re: Why are LR 32 set up guides so short?
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2018, 05:08 PM »
I assume there was no counter tops there.  Otherwise someone is making a custom holey rail.
Turning hanging space into shelving space. Having holes everywhere gives you the options.
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