Author Topic: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop  (Read 5710 times)

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Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 59
Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« on: April 07, 2017, 03:42 PM »
Since I moved to waterborne paint on my finishes (Kem Aqua), I have noticed lots of white dust accumulating around the shop.
What are you guys using for exhaust/filters to control this.

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Offline for2na

  • Posts: 3
Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2017, 04:04 PM »
Well, even with waterborne finishes you should be spraying them in paint booth. Then only dust you'll be dealing with is one in filter pockets... If dust comes from sanding hook up your sander to vacuum extractor. Don't use compressed air to dust of your products and wipe them with wet rug (microfiber works best for me) don't use tack cloth.


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Offline Pnw painter

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2017, 09:34 AM »
It would be helpful if you could post a pic of where you're currently spraying. Personally, I use zipwall poles to set up a temporary spray booth whenever I'm spraying in my shop.


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Offline wptski

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2017, 11:36 AM »
Have others notice that reviews from Scott Burt of TopCoatreviews spraying in their shop, hardly anything is covered!  I hope he reads this and chimes in.
Bill
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Online bkharman

  • Posts: 1882
Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2017, 02:32 PM »
It would be helpful if you could post a pic of where you're currently spraying. Personally, I use zipwall poles to set up a temporary spray booth whenever I'm spraying in my shop.


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How Do you exhaust or keep the air moving there?  Do you also take the workpiece out when you are done so it gets no "dust" on it?

Cheers. Bryan.


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Offline wptski

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2017, 05:01 PM »
I wonder about the amount of ventilation based on your space.  I built a filtered fan box using a Allegro 8" confined space blower with a 20"x15"x1" pleated filter to fit the sliding windows in the room that I'm currently spraying in and adapters to fill the space in other larger sliders.  The CFM of the blower is about the CF of the room but I'm not sure what's correct.

I did build a variable speed control into a standard 4"x4" electrical box so I can slow it "if" needed.  Wide open, door ajar in that room, it will open my kitchen to basement door if left ajar.  It sucks! [big grin]
Bill
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Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2017, 08:15 PM »
Have others notice that reviews from Scott Burt of TopCoatreviews spraying in their shop, hardly anything is covered!  I hope he reads this and chimes in.

I've noticed that guy around.

Its important to define, at least in my usage habits, what "paint dust" refers to. In a spray environment, you can sand with Festool and not be creating enough dust to cause a problem when you turn around to spray.

The real dust that happens is from the overspray created during spraying. Those fine airborne particles, if not exhausted, will dry in the air before they land and settle as dust. For practical purposes, it is most important that they not land in what is wet. We do dry in the same room that we spray in. It is almost 800 sf. I'll preface it by saying that we are control freaks in our shop.

Our approach is to use high transfer efficiency sprayers and guns, select tip size properly (major contributor to overspray dust), use proper technique (major contributor), ventilate the space during spraying, isolate items for drying upwind of spray, air out the room quickly upon completion, monitor product for tack up, and then heat promptly upon lay down.

Thats a lot to throw out there, so feel free to post up any questions.

I have been spraying in the same room for 15 years. And not had to repaint it yet. By way of example, in January, we sprayed over 6000 lf of product in exterior solid brown stain (total ext package for a barn). That was almost 60 gallons. The room is not brown now. In fact, the built in wall unit that our exhaust fan is located in is made out of clear pine, and still looks like clear pine even though it is directly in the exhaust direction.

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 432
Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2017, 08:35 PM »
In fact, the built in wall unit that our exhaust fan is located in is made out of clear pine, and still looks like clear pine even though it is directly in the exhaust direction.
What's the CFM of your exhaust fan and does it have a speed control?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2017, 07:20 AM »
I wonder about the amount of ventilation based on your space.  I built a filtered fan box using a Allegro 8" confined space blower with a 20"x15"x1" pleated filter to fit the sliding windows in the room that I'm currently spraying in and adapters to fill the space in other larger sliders.  The CFM of the blower is about the CF of the room but I'm not sure what's correct.

I did build a variable speed control into a standard 4"x4" electrical box so I can slow it "if" needed.  Wide open, door ajar in that room, it will open my kitchen to basement door if left ajar.  It sucks! [big grin]

The best guideline to follow based on what I have observed and learned over the years is that its ideal if you can create 100 ft/min of air flow. Actual moving air across the spray area.

I don't want anyone to be confused and think that you therefore only need a 100 cfm fan, that would be very flawed thinking. To create 100 ft/min of flow through a space, you need enough draw to for instance stand at one end of the room and blow some bubbles and see that they are exhausted at a rate of 100 ft/min. This is difficult to create, and to measure in a small space. My space is almost exactly half of 100 ft in length, so it has been easy to measure and dial. In a smaller space I would think that it would be more challenging. The biggest thing to remember is that to keep neutral pressure in the room, the same amount of air that is exhausted needs to be replaced by fresh air. That is why it always scares the bejeebers right out of me when people talk about spraying in their basements.

Offline wptski

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2017, 12:25 PM »
The best guideline to follow based on what I have observed and learned over the years is that its ideal if you can create 100 ft/min of air flow. Actual moving air across the spray area.

I don't want anyone to be confused and think that you therefore only need a 100 cfm fan, that would be very flawed thinking. To create 100 ft/min of flow through a space, you need enough draw to for instance stand at one end of the room and blow some bubbles and see that they are exhausted at a rate of 100 ft/min. This is difficult to create, and to measure in a small space. My space is almost exactly half of 100 ft in length, so it has been easy to measure and dial. In a smaller space I would think that it would be more challenging. The biggest thing to remember is that to keep neutral pressure in the room, the same amount of air that is exhausted needs to be replaced by fresh air. That is why it always scares the bejeebers right out of me when people talk about spraying in their basements.
That 100 ft/min sounds like this from Binks on spray booths but it's compared to your filter area.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2017, 12:33 PM »
That is why it always scares the bejeebers right out of me when people talk about spraying in their basements.
Ya me too. I bought a portable air filter for cleaning the air when I am spraying in homes.
Tim

Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 59
Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2017, 05:22 PM »
I have my area plastic off using zip wall poles. I'm not able to exhaust outside. The dust I'm referring to is overspray. Years ago I made an air filter using an exterior exhaust fan and 3 a/c filters. I started using that this week and it seems to help.

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2017, 05:33 PM »
I have my area plastic off using zip wall poles. I'm not able to exhaust outside. The dust I'm referring to is overspray. Years ago I made an air filter using an exterior exhaust fan and 3 a/c filters. I started using that this week and it seems to help.

Yes, its good that you are containing it. So most of it should be inside the plastic. And an awareness of the impact of the stagnant enclosure upon finish is good to learn. I assume you are wearing a cartridge respirator when enjoying these activities, if not please make sure that is your next move.

Overall, big picture, it is most important to create an area where you can have some air flow. Even if you move the operation to an open tented outdoor scene for the summer while figuring out the rest of the program, that would be forward motion.

If you want to provide more information specifically about your space and situation, you will get some good advice from these members.

Most important is to keep it clean and safe.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 05:52 PM by Scott Burt »

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2017, 05:35 PM »
The best guideline to follow based on what I have observed and learned over the years is that its ideal if you can create 100 ft/min of air flow. Actual moving air across the spray area.

I don't want anyone to be confused and think that you therefore only need a 100 cfm fan, that would be very flawed thinking. To create 100 ft/min of flow through a space, you need enough draw to for instance stand at one end of the room and blow some bubbles and see that they are exhausted at a rate of 100 ft/min. This is difficult to create, and to measure in a small space. My space is almost exactly half of 100 ft in length, so it has been easy to measure and dial. In a smaller space I would think that it would be more challenging. The biggest thing to remember is that to keep neutral pressure in the room, the same amount of air that is exhausted needs to be replaced by fresh air. That is why it always scares the bejeebers right out of me when people talk about spraying in their basements.
That 100 ft/min sounds like this from Binks on spray booths but it's compared to your filter area.

Yes, as long as I've been pulling triggers to release fluids, that has been a good old school standard to recognize. At the same time, we have learned that the old standards were built upon the old products. Solvent based products move through the air differently than waterborne and latex, and within just those two categories of product there is a world of variety.

So, I try to help in these types of questions based on particular situations. My particular situation is good, but I don't know another person who has the same exact set up as me.

That is why I apply benchmarks specifically to my space and encourage others to do the same.

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2017, 05:38 PM »
That is why it always scares the bejeebers right out of me when people talk about spraying in their basements.
Ya me too. I bought a portable air filter for cleaning the air when I am spraying in homes.
Tim

I would love to hear what you got and how it works for you. I have colleagues who have bought negative air machines out of that same healthy concern. Others use air scrubbers. Bottom line is finding what works best and safest for all involved with our finishing activities.

Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 59
Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2017, 06:01 PM »
Yes, I wear a respirator. I have been spraying for 30 years, mostly airless. I have a Fuji q5 that I'm still working on mastering. I have seen guys use box fans but I'm looking for something more efficient, but not breaking the bank. My cabinet work has tripled this year alone. I've had to buy a bigger planer, dust collection system etc...
I would kill for 800 sqft to paint in!
Is it best to exhaust in the direction you are spraying? Or does it matter as long as you have good circulation?

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2017, 06:06 PM »
Yes, I wear a respirator. I have been spraying for 30 years, mostly airless. I have a Fuji q5 that I'm still working on mastering. I have seen guys use box fans but I'm looking for something more efficient, but not breaking the bank. My cabinet work has tripled this year alone. I've had to buy a bigger planer, dust collection system etc...
I would kill for 800 sqft to paint in!
Is it best to exhaust in the direction you are spraying? Or does it matter as long as you have good circulation?

Thanks for the clarification. I wasn't sure if it was hobby or professional pursuit.

Tell more about your shop setup location, is it garage based?

In general, in my opinion, it is best to create the shortest amount of distance from where you pull the trigger to where your exhaust is. Our only variation is in the length of the pieces to be sprayed. We spray everything from 18' lumber to tie racks on turntables, so control that distance and create the strongest possible movement of air across the most typical space of trigger engagement, but without blowing the fan pattern sideways out of your gun - that is the challenge. Hard to do, I know, if you don't have a specific designated area...I went through years of moving stuff around to spray before I said screw it and dedicated space for it.

And don't think of it as circulation. You are looking for flow. Air in, air out, and you somewhere real close to air out.

Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 59
Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2017, 06:26 PM »
My shop is 2000 sqft with 12' walls peeking to 16'. Half of this space is my building area. The other half is split. Front half is used for storing sheet goods, trim etc.... Also holds completed cabinets prior to install. The back half stores my paint equipment, power tools, power washer. Basically it's the throw everything else in room. I have a corner in that room plastic off to spray in, roughly 12x12.

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2017, 06:39 PM »
My shop is 2000 sqft with 12' walls peeking to 16'. Half of this space is my building area. The other half is split. Front half is used for storing sheet goods, trim etc.... Also holds completed cabinets prior to install. The back half stores my paint equipment, power tools, power washer. Basically it's the throw everything else in room. I have a corner in that room plastic off to spray in, roughly 12x12.

Oh sweet, you have space. Sounds like the potential is there to create what you really need. Lose the zip wall, grow the space and build an enclosed clean space for finish with direct ventilation.

Offline Getmaverick

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2017, 06:54 PM »
Thanks for your input Scott. I believe there will be a redesign in the future.

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2017, 07:07 PM »
Thanks for your input Scott. I believe there will be a redesign in the future.

Anytime. I look forward to hearing how it evolves.

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2017, 09:33 AM »
I would love to hear what you got and how it works for you.

Will do, will be spraying a kitchen in the next couple weeks and will be setting up in a home and let you know. It's not a small unit.
Tim

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2017, 12:43 PM »
That is why it always scares the bejeebers right out of me when people talk about spraying in their basements.
Ya me too. I bought a portable air filter for cleaning the air when I am spraying in homes.
Tim

I just ordered 2 more Build Cleans.

TomThey work very well.

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #23 on: April 30, 2017, 01:42 PM »

I just ordered 2 more Build Cleans.
LOL. You are busy...

TomThey work very well.

My father-in-law used to call me Tom.
Tim

Offline gbruzze1

  • Posts: 58
Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2017, 06:54 PM »
What recommendations would you give for spraying on a job site?  Talking about water borne, nothing solvent based. Spraying with a Fuji HVLP. Doors and already installed trim.

Was planning on removing the doors, building a rotator like tom's posted, and spraying in an isolated room of the house.


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Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2017, 07:10 PM »

I just ordered 2 more Build Cleans.
LOL. You are busy...

TomThey work very well.

My father-in-law used to call me Tom.
Tim

Great name....

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2017, 07:11 PM »
What recommendations would you give for spraying on a job site?  Talking about water borne, nothing solvent based. Spraying with a Fuji HVLP. Doors and already installed trim.

Was planning on removing the doors, building a rotator like tom's posted, and spraying in an isolated room of the house.


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Build Clean, use it as a negative air machine.

Tom

Offline gbruzze1

  • Posts: 58
Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2017, 07:16 PM »
What recommendations would you give for spraying on a job site?  Talking about water borne, nothing solvent based. Spraying with a Fuji HVLP. Doors and already installed trim.

Was planning on removing the doors, building a rotator like tom's posted, and spraying in an isolated room of the house.


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Build Clean, use it as a negative air machine.

Tom
Sheesh. I know this is the festool forum, but I was hoping for an answer that didn't result in me spending $1,000. That would be a good investment, but are their any other options?


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Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2017, 08:29 PM »
This;

http://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-1625-CFM-Air-Mover-AM2560/202942745

This filter over the inlet;

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-21-1-2-in-x-24-in-x-1-in-Standard-Pleated-FPR-4-Air-Filter-Case-of-12-64100I0121524/204189958

Fit 2" foam into a door or window opening. The lower the better, it acts as a down draft. Make sure you account for air in, filter that opening also.

The fan is not explosion proof, no solvents!

Good respirator is a must.

Tom





« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 08:31 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline RobBob

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Re: Dealing with Paint dust in the shop
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2017, 08:36 PM »
@tjbnwi

Any respirator recommendations?