Author Topic: Graco Ultra  (Read 3945 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Graco Ultra
« on: October 27, 2017, 11:58 AM »
Thought I would share my latest toy. Picked it up this morning. Chose the corded version because I hate batteries and I'm not a fan of Dewalt.

Cheers,
JC

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline RKA

  • Posts: 916
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2017, 03:50 PM »
Very cool!  I got one a few months ago and have been postponing the work it was intended for.  Any tips you want to share would be welcome. 
-Raj

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7228
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2017, 04:03 PM »
Since my spraying needs are pretty minimal, I've been tempted to buy an ultra.  If they offered a bare tool version I'd probably go for it.

Let us know for it works out for you.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 3591
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2017, 04:16 PM »
I’m also interested...was looking at one this summer, but I didn’t pull the pin. I’m also not a fan of Dewalt but I was considering the cordless version just for the convenience.

Offline Randel

  • Posts: 11
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2017, 05:09 PM »
I noticed when they first came out that they pulsed the finish out so wasn't the most consistent for our work need would love to know if they fixed thats and if it performs more like an airless.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2017, 08:14 AM »
Well well well,
For a while now I have been experimenting with spraying BM Regal Select tinted grey with my Fuji Q5 and T70 gun and I have had no success. I've tried every combination of needle and cap sizes and different levels of thinning from 5% to 30% and with every needle from 1.3 up to 2.5. Four gallons later and I was not any further ahead then when I started.
So I went out and purchased the Graco Ultra and thought I would try airless instead. After 8 hours of drying time, the test panels looked great and I was overjoyed to have solved my problem. But, after 24 hours of curing the panels look like crap. The attached photo is what I'm getting.

Some of my panel are MDF and maple veneer plywood, primed twice with either Wall & Wood primer from Sherwing Williams, BM Advanced primer and Lenmar Duralack undercoater. It doesn't seem to matter what the primer I use I get the same results.

Back to the drawing board.

JC

Offline TXFIVEO

  • Posts: 80
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2017, 08:49 AM »
I have had the Graco Ultra handheld (corded) version since February.  Have sprayed about 20 large doors averaging 8' tall and 4' wide.  Most of my painted doors are built with Poplar.  I've used Benjamin Moore Advance, Sherwin Williams Pro Classic, and Behr Marquee.  No problems whatsoever with fantastic results.  The pulse issue most likely is due to the setting not being high enough.  I run mine at 9-10 with the 312 or 514 tip most of the time with great results.   

Online Pnw painter

  • Posts: 107
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2017, 10:19 AM »
Well well well,
For a while now I have been experimenting with spraying BM Regal Select tinted grey with my Fuji Q5 and T70 gun and I have had no success. I've tried every combination of needle and cap sizes and different levels of thinning from 5% to 30% and with every needle from 1.3 up to 2.5. Four gallons later and I was not any further ahead then when I started.
So I went out and purchased the Graco Ultra and thought I would try airless instead. After 8 hours of drying time, the test panels looked great and I was overjoyed to have solved my problem. But, after 24 hours of curing the panels look like crap. The attached photo is what I'm getting.

Some of my panel are MDF and maple veneer plywood, primed twice with either Wall & Wood primer from Sherwing Williams, BM Advanced primer and Lenmar Duralack undercoater. It doesn't seem to matter what the primer I use I get the same results.

Back to the drawing board.

JC

How do you prep the raw wood before priming? Once primed what grit are you sanding to?

Since I'm looking at the picture on my phone, it's really tough see what's going on with the finish. Could you try and describe what you're seeing or feeling on the finish?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 11:06 AM »
Well well well,
For a while now I have been experimenting with spraying BM Regal Select tinted grey with my Fuji Q5 and T70 gun and I have had no success. I've tried every combination of needle and cap sizes and different levels of thinning from 5% to 30% and with every needle from 1.3 up to 2.5. Four gallons later and I was not any further ahead then when I started.
So I went out and purchased the Graco Ultra and thought I would try airless instead. After 8 hours of drying time, the test panels looked great and I was overjoyed to have solved my problem. But, after 24 hours of curing the panels look like crap. The attached photo is what I'm getting.

Some of my panel are MDF and maple veneer plywood, primed twice with either Wall & Wood primer from Sherwing Williams, BM Advanced primer and Lenmar Duralack undercoater. It doesn't seem to matter what the primer I use I get the same results.

Back to the drawing board.

JC

How do you prep the raw wood before priming? Once primed what grit are you sanding to?

Since I'm looking at the picture on my phone, it's really tough see what's going on with the finish. Could you try and describe what you're seeing or feeling on the finish?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The panels have 2 coats of primer, sanded 320 between coats. There is probably 3 coats of paint on this panel. Sanded baby smooth between coats with 320. When the paint os layed down it looks beautiful. No visible flaws and it looks like a wet lake. Something happens when it dries for about 24 hours. Feels like 600 grit sandpaper after 24 hours and the surface is not smooth.

Cheers,
JC

Offline Swordstriper

  • Posts: 6
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2017, 09:11 PM »
I am a painting contractor and use Fuji hvlp spray equipment too. Would you mind telling me what your  reasoning behind spraying BM regal select. I’ve followed your posts with very much interest.

Offline frodo

  • Posts: 63
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2017, 10:53 PM »
I have had the cordless ultra for half a year now and have had great results with it. No pulsating issues and smooth flow out with no thinning. (SW pro classic). Sprayed several doors and am happy with the finish.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2017, 07:33 AM »
I am a painting contractor and use Fuji hvlp spray equipment too. Would you mind telling me what your  reasoning behind spraying BM regal select. I’ve followed your posts with very much interest.
For this project, all I'm doing is replacing the doors and drawer fronts for the client's kitchen. They are going to paint their own cabinets and I'm going to spray the new doors and drawers fronts. The reason I'm using Regal Select is because there is a lot of trim and crown moulding that was done with this paint tinted BM Stone Harbor ( 2111-50). I would of liked to use Advance instead, but when you tint it the same colour it does dry noticeably different. Thus my predicament.

In saying that. I sprayed some Advance yesterday with my new Graco Ultra with a 312 nozzle, 12 inches from the surface and pressure set to 9. After approx 18 hours of drying, I'm getting the same crappy results.
I tried Advance with my Fuji Q5, thinned 10%, 1.8mil needle nad full power with no luck either.

I've been at this now for over a month and 4 gallons of paint with no success. There is something I'm doing worng and I'm stumped at what it could be. My wife is ticked as well.

Cheers,
JC

Offline Swordstriper

  • Posts: 6
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2017, 10:17 AM »
When the paint manufacturers changed paint formulations in 2010 to comply with Vic regulations stuff like this started cropping up. To me it sounds like solvent entrapment. Try spraying with a 1.3 mm and thin 20-25% plus add 1cup BM extender per gallon. Then hold the gun 3-4 inches from the surface you are spraying and with 50% overlap and lay it on 3-4 mild wet and see what happens. You are using sandpaper made for water base paints?

Online Pnw painter

  • Posts: 107
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2017, 12:06 PM »
It's quite possible that your primers aren't sealing the MDF enough to prevent grain raise when you're applying your top coat.

I'd recommend trying an oil or shellac based primer such as CoverStain, BM 217, Bin or Seal Coat.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline Swordstriper

  • Posts: 6
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2017, 06:31 PM »
Am l understanding right that this problem is happening over maple veneer also?

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2017, 07:56 PM »
Am l understanding right that this problem is happening over maple veneer also?
Yes. Maple veneer and mdf panels. After much practice and thought, I change my spraying method and after 8 hours of drying it looks good. Now the real test will be in the morning after 20+ hours of drying. Stay tuned.

JC

Offline TXFIVEO

  • Posts: 80
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2017, 09:58 PM »
I typically use BIN or KILZ with zero issues. 

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2017, 07:18 AM »
Well it's morning and the test panels look crappy. Not a smooth coat at all.
Therefore, after 1 week of ownership I have decided to sell my Graco Ultra corded. Check out the classified setion for details.

Thanks everyone for their ideas and help.

Cheers,
JC

Offline Swordstriper

  • Posts: 6
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2017, 09:08 AM »
Could you be a bit more specific on your procedure. What is the viscosity of the paint, how long are letting each coat dry, what is the temperature and humidity where you are spraying and where you are drying your pieces, what is the wet mil thickness on a panel that’s been sprayed. What kind of sand paper are you using and how are you getting rid of dust produced? I don’t want to spout off all kinds of irrelevant information.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2017, 09:25 AM »
Could you be a bit more specific on your procedure. What is the viscosity of the paint, how long are letting each coat dry, what is the temperature and humidity where you are spraying and where you are drying your pieces, what is the wet mil thickness on a panel that’s been sprayed. What kind of sand paper are you using and how are you getting rid of dust produced? I don’t want to spout off all kinds of irrelevant information.
Viscosity - Tried 30sec - 42 sec, thinned with water, tried thinning 15% water and 10% extender same crap
Drying - Coat looks creat after 4-5 hours of drying, however, after 24 hours looks crappy
Wet Mils - TDS says 3.8. Tried 4, 5. Same results
Temp and humididty - 72 F, 55-60-% humidity
Sanding - using Granat 320 grit
Dust removal - Vacuumed panels with Midi Dust Extractor and clean with damp lint free cloth with distilled water.

Cheers,
JC

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2956
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2017, 10:21 AM »
Hard to tell what is going on in the photo (I'm not an expert sprayer anyway but I do have plenty of experience with paint), and we still don't have enough info on the primer, but it looks like dry spots as in primer too thin (on the high spots in the wood texture) to keep finish from getting sucked into the wood.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2017, 10:36 AM »
Hard to tell what is going on in the photo (I'm not an expert sprayer anyway but I do have plenty of experience with paint), and we still don't have enough info on the primer, but it looks like dry spots as in primer too thin (on the high spots in the wood texture) to keep finish from getting sucked into the wood.

Multiple primes were used on multiple, 9 - 2'x2', test panels. Primers used were, Wall and Wood from SW, Advance primer from BM and Duralac from Lenmar. Two coats of primers for all panels. Every panel has a few coats of paint and each coat is given 24-48 hours to dry. Then they are sanded with Granat 320 paper by hand or by machine. Each coat after sanding is as smooth as a baby's bum, as they say.
Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2017, 10:38 AM »
The biggest pain in the behind is that everything looks good after 8 hours of drying, but then after 24 hours crap happens. So there is a lot of wasted time waiting till the next day to see the results.

JC

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2956
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2017, 10:45 AM »
Hard to tell what is going on in the photo (I'm not an expert sprayer anyway but I do have plenty of experience with paint), and we still don't have enough info on the primer, but it looks like dry spots as in primer too thin (on the high spots in the wood texture) to keep finish from getting sucked into the wood.

Multiple primes were used on multiple, 9 - 2'x2', test panels. Primers used were, Wall and Wood from SW, Advance primer from BM and Duralac from Lenmar. Two coats of primers for all panels. Every panel has a few coats of paint and each coat is given 24-48 hours to dry. Then they are sanded with Granat 320 paper by hand or by machine. Each coat after sanding is as smooth as a baby's bum, as they say.
Cheers,
JC

So uneven absorption is pretty much impossible?

How does the same finish mixture look 24 hours later when applied by brush? I know, another delay to find out...are there some spills on a surface that is close enough to similar?

I'm just wondering if it's a paint/pigment issue rather than a spraying issue. All 4 gallons from the same supplier?

Offline escan

  • Posts: 22
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2017, 10:47 AM »
If you're not burned out completely, I would try isolating the top coat and bottom coat finishes by spraying a pane of glass.

Recently, I picked up a merkur 30:1 for wb lacquer and latex that was a struggle with my 1050 apollo. I read about your success with pressure pots and almost went that route. I can spray one coat with the AAA that took 2, maybe 3 coats with the apollo, and the end result is so smooth. 

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2017, 11:31 AM »
Hard to tell what is going on in the photo (I'm not an expert sprayer anyway but I do have plenty of experience with paint), and we still don't have enough info on the primer, but it looks like dry spots as in primer too thin (on the high spots in the wood texture) to keep finish from getting sucked into the wood.

Multiple primes were used on multiple, 9 - 2'x2', test panels. Primers used were, Wall and Wood from SW, Advance primer from BM and Duralac from Lenmar. Two coats of primers for all panels. Every panel has a few coats of paint and each coat is given 24-48 hours to dry. Then they are sanded with Granat 320 paper by hand or by machine. Each coat after sanding is as smooth as a baby's bum, as they say.
Cheers,
JC

So uneven absorption is pretty much impossible?

How does the same finish mixture look 24 hours later when applied by brush? I know, another delay to find out...are there some spills on a surface that is close enough to similar?

I'm just wondering if it's a paint/pigment issue rather than a spraying issue. All 4 gallons from the same supplier?
Michael,

You may be on to something. I just checked a panel I did by brush and other then brush marks, there is grit on the surface. The panel was sanded smooth with Granat 320 before being brushed. Now what do I do. with over 30 years of painting by hand experience I have never seen this. By the way, 3 gallons were from one BM dealer and I bought 1 from an another dealer.

Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 734
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2017, 11:35 AM »
If you're not burned out completely, I would try isolating the top coat and bottom coat finishes by spraying a pane of glass.

Recently, I picked up a merkur 30:1 for wb lacquer and latex that was a struggle with my 1050 apollo. I read about your success with pressure pots and almost went that route. I can spray one coat with the AAA that took 2, maybe 3 coats with the apollo, and the end result is so smooth.

About a year ago, I sprayed it with a pressure pot attached to my Fuji T70 gun and I did get good results. Recently tried again and got the same crap. As mentioned by Michael Kellough I'm leaning towards a paint/pigment issue. As I am getting grit, even by hand, I'm going to try filtering the paint through a 125 micron filter and see what I get.

JC

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7228
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2017, 12:32 PM »
Michael,

You may be on to something. I just checked a panel I did by brush and other then brush marks, there is grit on the surface. The panel was sanded smooth with Granat 320 before being brushed. Now what do I do. with over 30 years of painting by hand experience I have never seen this. By the way, 3 gallons were from one BM dealer and I bought 1 from an another dealer.

Cheers,
JC


It's funny, I was going to throw out the idea of bad paint.  I assumed you had ruled that out, and you have way more experience spraying than I do.  I'd get on the phone with your paint supplier and see what they have to think.
Check out my new blog, The Green and Dark Blue Blog.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 2956
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2017, 12:41 PM »
If you're not burned out completely, I would try isolating the top coat and bottom coat finishes by spraying a pane of glass.

Recently, I picked up a merkur 30:1 for wb lacquer and latex that was a struggle with my 1050 apollo. I read about your success with pressure pots and almost went that route. I can spray one coat with the AAA that took 2, maybe 3 coats with the apollo, and the end result is so smooth.

About a year ago, I sprayed it with a pressure pot attached to my Fuji T70 gun and I did get good results. Recently tried again and got the same crap. As mentioned by Michael Kellough I'm leaning towards a paint/pigment issue. As I am getting grit, even by hand, I'm going to try filtering the paint through a 125 micron filter and see what I get.
JC

If the filter does remove something then the color will change?

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5470
Re: Graco Ultra
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2017, 01:07 PM »
Have you tried the Graco Ultra with other paints? The first thing I thought when reading this topic is, does this happen with this paint only, or also with other paints? Because it totally does not look like a sprayer problem to me, if there was something wrong with the sprayer, you'd more or less see that immediately, and not a day later.