neilc
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« on: May 02, 2012, 11:47 PM » |
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Building a dresser made from cherry. I need to stain it dark as that is what my daughter wants. Have purchased a oil based gel stain but trying it on sample pieces I am getting blotchy finish. Color is a medium brown walnut to mitigate the red of the cherry.
The drawer sides and bottom and interior frame are hard maple.
I have cut dovetails for the drawers but have not glued them up as I will end up finishing the fronts before assembly and then do a final few coats of likely a wipe on poly.
Anyone offer tips to ensure an even stain coverage and consistent finish? I've read about a wash coat of shellac but have not tried it. I normally have done natural cherry with an oil or lacquer finish via HVLP but this is a larger piece that will be difficult to move to my garage for finish spraying.
Beyond the pre stain prep, open to advice on finish coat if something is easier or better than the wipe on poly? I'd prefer not to spray if possible.
Thanks
Neil
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« Last Edit: May 02, 2012, 11:53 PM by neilc »
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RL
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2012, 06:29 AM » |
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By coincidence I am currently making a cabinet from cherry. I have pre-finished the interior with three coats of garnet shellac, which has darkened the cherry nicely. I will post a picture when I get to the workshop in a couple of hours. The cherry will also darken naturally over time. I think this is your safest bet for avoiding blotching, and you can follow it up with a lacquer or poly if you want more protection on the oustide. I have not had much success with gel stains and cherry in the past, but the garnet shellac works a treat.
Richard.
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I like green.
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barnowl
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2012, 06:56 AM » |
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I'm also doing a cherry project. I've heard nothing but good things about Charles Neil's Blotch Control, and bought some. I'm planning on using it, then using a custom mixed dye, with Waterlox as a finish coat. While I personally haven't used it yet, here is his video for your review:
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best wishes,
Steve
TS-55, assorted rails, Domino, Kapex, OF1400, ETS 125 EQ, RO 125 FEQ, RO 90, PSB 300 EQ, CT-22, CT-26, MFT-3
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Jesse Cloud
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2012, 09:51 AM » |
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Richard nailed it. Cherry and shellac are made for each other. You can also apply a stain (glaze) after a couple of coats of shellac, then another wash coat of shellac and a topcoat for durability.
Unless I'm expecting the piece to take a beating, I usually just put shellac on cherry followed by a nice wax.
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RL
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2012, 10:03 AM » |
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Here are the Photos. Three quick coats of garnet shellac rubbed out the first two times with granat 400. Added a little baby oil to make the third coat easier to apply. You can see the difference with the unfinished cherry exterior. Jesse +1. Shellac and wax every time.   
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I like green.
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CharlesWilson
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2012, 10:13 AM » |
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I think you can reduce the undesired dark areas by sanding to a higher grit (220 or higher) before staining. The thing that we call 'blotching' is actually due to curl in the wood, and is desirable by many woodworkers in maple, but not so much in cherry. I have recently come to appreciate the curl. Attached is a recent piece made with curly maple and curly cherry. I used an oil/varnish mixture to finish it and bring out the curl. 
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Charles Wilson
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Don T
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Phoenix, Az
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2012, 02:24 PM » |
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Charles Neil blotch control works great. I used it soft maple and it turned out great
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neilc
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2012, 09:37 PM » |
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Thanks guys.
I ordered some of Charles' Pre Conditioner. Looking forward to trying it out.
I assume I can go over it (2 coats) with the wipe on oil-based finish that I already have.
neil
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Kevin Stricker
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2012, 02:26 AM » |
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I generally use Old Masters Pre stain conditioner. Just washing with mineral spirits right before applying the stain will work sometimes too.
I would watch out with a wipe on poly over a gel stain unless you do a Sealcoat first. The poly(mineral spirits actually) tends to pull the stain back into solution and you will get wipe marks in the stain. Not to mention the many coats required to get any film build.
Waterlox is great stuff, but I don't know if there will be any compatibility issues with the gel stain. It sure is stinky too. I would rather tent off an area and spray for a day then apply Waterlox for a week and smell it for a month.
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Don T
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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2012, 02:27 AM » |
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I would talk to Charles about that. He is a really nice guy.
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RO150, C12, DF 500 Q, CT33, TS75, MFT3, Kapex 120, MFT3/Kapex, MFK 700, RO 90, ETS150/3, CT22, Centrotec Installers Kit
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neilc
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2012, 09:38 AM » |
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I think you can reduce the undesired dark areas by sanding to a higher grit (220 or higher) before staining. The thing that we call 'blotching' is actually due to curl in the wood, and is desirable by many woodworkers in maple, but not so much in cherry. I have recently come to appreciate the curl. Attached is a recent piece made with curly maple and curly cherry. I used an oil/varnish mixture to finish it and bring out the curl.  Charles - that is a really interesting piece. What is it given it has drawers on two sides? neil
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CharlesWilson
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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2012, 03:16 PM » |
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This is a Shaker Sewing Desk that I made for my daughter last year. You can find the plans for it in a couple of Glen Huey's books. It was intended to be used by two Shaker sisters, with three drawers reserved for each. There is a maple pullout shelf under the main working surface.
Charles
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Charles Wilson
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Scott B.
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2012, 03:25 PM » |
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Dye stain is the way to fly. This is a custom cherry new build I did a couple of years ago. Dye stain and satin omu. All sprayed.  [ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
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Scott B.
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2012, 03:26 PM » |
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Here's tha bar on the opposite side of the room. 
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neilc
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2012, 06:21 PM » |
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Dye stain is the way to fly. This is a custom cherry new build I did a couple of years ago. Dye stain and satin omu. All sprayed.
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]
Really nice work. What is 'satin emu' ??
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PaulMarcel
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2012, 06:27 PM » |
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Really nice work. What is 'satin emu' ??

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Visit my blog for Festool adventures Shirt size: L  Twitter: @HalfInchShy
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2012, 06:37 PM » |
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satin omu = satin oil modified urethance. satin emu= not so bright bird 
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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Scott B.
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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2012, 06:45 PM » |
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Peter Halle
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2012, 06:50 PM » |
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Scott,
Any idea of brand and line of stain? Application method?
Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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Scott B.
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2012, 06:54 PM » |
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Yes. I prefer Lockwood waterborne dyes, and hvlp is the only method I would use for the stain. The omu, I only use Zar Ultramax. That can be applied hvlp or aaa as in the video in my link above.
The challenge to the situation of the original post in this thread is that there are basically two options. As others mentioned, using shellac and an "overstain" technique, which certainly eliminates the blotch factor, but is almost like a graining exercise in the wiping technique, and is VERY limited on how dark you can go. It can be done, but is tedious and time consuming. The dye is dry before you clsan the sprayer.
I do have some old process footage of the bar and entertainment unit in process. I did a bunch of prefinishing on that unit prior to installation. If anyone is interested in seeing such a dark stain on raw cherry, I think I could dig it up.
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Tim Raleigh
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« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2012, 06:56 AM » |
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I do have some old process footage of the bar and entertainment unit in process. I did a bunch of prefinishing on that unit prior to installation. If anyone is interested in seeing such a dark stain on raw cherry, I think I could dig it up.
Scott: I would be interested in seeing that. Maybe start a new thread though, I think you guys nailed this one. Tim
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craig feuerzeig
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« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2012, 09:43 AM » |
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Here are the Photos. Three quick coats of garnet shellac rubbed out the first two times with granat 400. Added a little baby oil to make the third coat easier to apply. You can see the difference with the unfinished cherry exterior. Jesse +1. Shellac and wax every time.    Wow... what a beautiful finish! 
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Bowclamp "good caul"
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RL
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« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2012, 09:53 AM » |
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Thanks Craig.
I am sure you spotted a couple of your long bowclamps in there! I don't get to use them all that often, but when it comes to something like this face frame glue-up they are invaluable. I did the whole face frame with only 8 clamps (plus the two bowclamps) and had just the right amount of squeeze-out all around.
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I like green.
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craig feuerzeig
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« Reply #23 on: May 07, 2012, 04:56 PM » |
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Haha... sure did Richard. Thank you. And sorry Neil, don't want to hijack your thread... Couldn't resist, forgive me. 
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Bowclamp "good caul"
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Scott B.
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« Reply #24 on: May 07, 2012, 06:41 PM » |
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I do have some old process footage of the bar and entertainment unit in process. I did a bunch of prefinishing on that unit prior to installation. If anyone is interested in seeing such a dark stain on raw cherry, I think I could dig it up.
Scott: I would be interested in seeing that. Maybe start a new thread though, I think you guys nailed this one. Tim Will do, Tim. Dye stain on cherry is pretty interesting to see. I'll get that out soon.
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CharlesWilson
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« Reply #25 on: May 22, 2012, 01:32 PM » |
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Finally, I got a chance to take pictures of the finished and rubbed piece:  and with the additional work surface pulled out:  Charles
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Charles Wilson
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Scott B.
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« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2012, 01:48 PM » |
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Jeepers creepers. That piece is way nicer than its circumstances. Nice work, Charles.
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Ken Nagrod
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« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2012, 01:58 PM » |
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Sweet! 
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CharlesWilson
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« Reply #28 on: May 22, 2012, 06:51 PM » |
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Those are pretty close to the actual colors, as I had more control of the lighting for these exposures. The 'room' is a glorified closet, but eventually the desk will get out into the living space.
Charles
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Charles Wilson
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neilc
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« Reply #29 on: May 22, 2012, 08:09 PM » |
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Thanks for the replies.
So more questions. I have two coats of Charles Neil's prestain blotch control on the piece.
I have tried two wiping coats of old masters gel On similar pieces of cherry and the grain comes through and I assume the piece will darken in time as Cherry does. The stain is an antique walnut - more brown, and less red.
Alternative is spraying light coats of a water based dye. Finding and color matching the dye has yet to be done but what I have seen at Rockler and Woodcraft is not the right color. Browns are too green in the right shades.
If I spray, That would get me to a darker color and allow me to blend slight differences in color due to veneer panels on the two ends of the dresser. In watching Charles' videos, he does not wipe after the light coats but lightly does successive coats. Will I get grain raising? Should I go with the wiping gel or the sprayed dye HVLP applied and then finished with Enduro semi gloss ware based poly?
Neil
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