Author Topic: HVLP purchase help!  (Read 22335 times)

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Offline crsowa

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HVLP purchase help!
« on: December 08, 2014, 10:31 AM »
looking to step up my finishing game soon.  Looking into getting an HVLP setup, just not sure which one and I KNOW that you all have some opinions.  For some background... I am solely a hobby woodworker.... But I make a lot of things, no cabinets or anything... Yet, but I'm sure I will someday.  I make book shelves, furniture, gifts, tables, chairs, etc.  I don't need anything too large, as it will most likely only get used a couple times a month.  I use stains, latex paints (sometimes), polyurethanes, so water/oil based compatibility is important.  Also, looking to spend $400 or less, hopefully. Thanks guys!
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3357
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 11:09 AM »
Suggest that you get a copy of Fine Woodworking, #242, October 2014.  There's an article by Teri Masaschi on p. 50 on low-dollar HVLP rigs that might give you some useful information.  Just remember, you get what you pay for (and you pay for what you get)... 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline crsowa

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 12:28 PM »
There's a good chance I have that copy at home.  I've been to busy to read any mags the last few months.  Thanks for the heads up!
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline roblg3

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 12:49 PM »
I made my first HVLP purchase recently.  Others here, some pros!, like the affordability and the very good results that we achieve with the FUJI minimite 3.  Very well rated and as most hvlp very compact.  I'm a total novice with it and clients are amazed at how well i can match my custom stuff to their factory finished stuff.  It was easy right out of the box!
Rob Gardner
Operator
RL3 Enterprises

Offline sae

  • Posts: 841
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2014, 01:49 PM »
Just remember, you get what you pay for (and you pay for what you get)...


Yes and no. I've had really good success w/ the Harbor Freight Professional gun, something that I haven't been able to replicate in some $300+ setups. This has been corroborated by a few fellow hobbyist painters as well. Problem is if you ask the pros, they'll turn their nose up to you and say it's user error, and rattle on about how much their Devilbiss/SATA/Iwata setup cost them.  [wink]

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2014, 08:20 PM »
I've heard good things about the Fuji Minimite.

I purchased the Wagner Control Spray Max HVLP on Amazon for around $100.  I considered the Minimite, but bought the wagner for simple stuff like spraying trim, etc.

Now that I see built ins in my future, I wonder if I made the right choice.  (The Wagner has good reviews, I haven't even opened it yet as I am waiting for Spring).

I made my first HVLP purchase recently.  Others here, some pros!, like the affordability and the very good results that we achieve with the FUJI minimite 3.  Very well rated and as most hvlp very compact.  I'm a total novice with it and clients are amazed at how well i can match my custom stuff to their factory finished stuff.  It was easy right out of the box!
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2014, 08:47 PM »
Most of the system will spray the vast majority of finish and stains. Latex paint is the killer for the smaller systems. There is the option of thinning the paint, I prefer the paint at full body. The smallest nozzle I use for latex is 2.0 mm. At times I do use a 2.7 mm nozzle.

If you're using an HVLP gun with heavy material the turbine may not produce enough pressure to get the fluid smoothly to the nozzle. A pressure pot solves this problem really well.

3M PPS is a system you need to look into. For wood finishing products use the 125 micron lids.

Tom

Offline Iceclimber

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 12:19 PM »
You get what you pay for with sprayers.

So e will say talk to a pro and they bad mouth inexpensive machines. To that i would say some people have a different idea of what a quality finish does and does not look like.

The other thing to consider is inexpensive spray setups don't last very long when compared to quality ones.

http://www.lexaire.com

http://www.lemmer.com

Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline crsowa

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 12:27 PM »
Okay.... I got impatient and pulled the trigger on the Fuji Mini Mite 3.  Does anyone know what adapter I will need for the 3m pps system?  Thanks
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 01:23 PM by crsowa »
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2014, 01:47 PM »
Need to know which model gun.

Xpc-G has the side mount and takes a #10 adapter

T-70 and other bottom feeds take a #18 adapter

T-75G gravity feed takes a #2 adapter

What's your culinary specialty?

Tom

Offline roblg3

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 04:39 PM »
Just an insight...Tom knows what he's talking about here!  everything he's ever told me has totally checked out.
Rob Gardner
Operator
RL3 Enterprises

Offline crsowa

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 06:23 PM »
I got the T70.  Looked it all up.  Ordered the adapter, and the 3m pps mini cup and box of lids and inserts... Thanks all!!

I teach Culinary arts at a school in West Michigan.  I am the restaurant chef.  I specialize in French cuisine and charcuterie.
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline rnt80

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2014, 10:37 PM »
Tom, do you use the 200 micron for paints and/or tinted lacquers.  I got the MM3 a few weeks ago and intend on using it exclusively for spraying those products.  I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 11:52 PM »
I got the T70.  Looked it all up.  Ordered the adapter, and the 3m pps mini cup and box of lids and inserts... Thanks all!!

I teach Culinary arts at a school in West Michigan.  I am the restaurant chef.  I specialize in French cuisine and charcuterie.

Make sure you get some blue lids for latex. They have 125 micron filters in the lid instead of the 200 micron filters.

Asked cause I love to cook, well above average at it.

Is that the campus in 'Kazoo, off 31? If so my sisters backyard is the campus.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2014, 11:54 PM »
Tom, do you use the 200 micron for paints and/or tinted lacquers.  I got the MM3 a few weeks ago and intend on using it exclusively for spraying those products.  I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.

At first there was no choice, replacing the 200's with the blue 125's. The 200's work fine with stain and shellac.

Tom

Offline crsowa

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 10:09 AM »
I ordered the 125 micron lids only. Will they work for most things?

I work at a campus in Muskegon.  The Culinary Institute of Michigan.
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 10:17 AM »
I ordered the 125 micron lids only. Will they work for most things?

Yes. That's all I use.
I always strain before use anyway.
It's a good habit to get into. Mise en Place as it were.

I am the restaurant chef.  I specialize in French cuisine and charcuterie.
The perfect background...I think cooking and carpentry/cabinet making have a lot in common.
Tim

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2014, 10:21 AM »
I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.

Hu? Which filter on which fluid tube? Which lacquer were you using? If you were using Target 6500 (pigmented) lacquer the mini mite 3 will not be able to atomize it without a lot of frustration resulting in a less than optimal finish.
Tim

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 11:28 AM »
How does the Fuji minimite setup compare to say an Iwata lph-400 with a good compressor?

I had been thinking down the road that the iwata was my upgrade path. The Fuji, by comparison is a bargain so I wondered how they would compare.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 01:19 PM »
I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.

Hu? Which filter on which fluid tube? Which lacquer were you using? If you were using Target 6500 (pigmented) lacquer the mini mite 3 will not be able to atomize it without a lot of frustration resulting in a less than optimal finish.
Tim

I believe he is referring to the 200 micron filter in the PPS lid.

Getting the fluid to the nozzle is the most important aspect of all of this. That is why I use a pot so often. No matter how thick I can get the pressure up in the pit to move the fluid. After that all the turbine has to do is supply air cap air. The guns are the same across the board, pick the proper nozzle and air cap, you're good to go. Most times I have the sets mixed, one up or down on the air cap, depends on what I'm trying to accomplish.

In the video with the door finish the stain was a 0.8 nozzle with a 1.0 air cap, finish was was 1.0 nozzle with a 1.3 air cap.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2014, 01:26 PM »
This is the stand/filter system I use when I have a cup on the gun (hold over for the auto days). If the fluid is going in the pot it is strained with a bucket filter.

http://www.eastwood.com/paint-gun-accessory-kit.html

Tom

Offline rnt80

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2014, 04:08 PM »
I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.

Hu? Which filter on which fluid tube? Which lacquer were you using? If you were using Target 6500 (pigmented) lacquer the mini mite 3 will not be able to atomize it without a lot of frustration resulting in a less than optimal finish.
Tim

Tom is right, I was referring to the 200 micron filter on the end of the tube.  I was using Target's pigmented lacquer and after removing that filter it sprayed just fine.  I too filter everything before I spray it so I wasn't concerned about contaminating the finish by removing the filter at the end of the fluid tube in the cup. 
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline rnt80

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    • Agape Wood Design
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2014, 04:16 PM »
Are the filters in the PPS removable?   Has anyone had issues with pushing thick material through the PPS system?  I have some high solids primer from Target Coatings that I plan on using on an upcoming job and I would like to start using the PPS system but not if it will be a non starter with this product.
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2014, 04:58 PM »
Are the filters in the PPS removable?   Has anyone had issues with pushing thick material through the PPS system?  I have some high solids primer from Target Coatings that I plan on using on an upcoming job and I would like to start using the PPS system but not if it will be a non starter with this product.

Yes, the filter on the lid is removable. There is a tab on it so it is easy to peel off. I highly recommend straining the product if you remove the lid strainer.

One other thing I highly recommend is a remote control switch for the turbine. I place the turbine away from the spray area, it made it a pain to turn the unit on and off. On the last job I used the Fact Cap remote control, it work very well. Fuji now markets a remote if you want to go with a same brand item.

Tom


Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2014, 05:37 PM »
Has anyone had issues with pushing thick material through the PPS system?

Nope, use the PPS to spray Target 6500. No problem. I mostly use my CAT H2O gun and a compressor though.

I have some high solids primer from Target Coatings that I plan on using on an upcoming job and I would like to start using the PPS system but not if it will be a non starter with this product.

Without thinning, I doubt you will be able to spray that primer very easily with the mini mite 3. It has a Zahn #4 rating of 60 (centipoise 850) which is the same as the old EM6500. The new 6500 with the acrylic base has a Zahn #4 rating of 30. I have had problems spraying the old 6500 using my Q4 without using a pressure pot and compressor. Even then I wasn't entirely happy with the atomization. I had slow down a lot, good thing it levels well.
Tim

Offline rnt80

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2014, 08:11 PM »


Has anyone had issues with pushing thick material through the PPS system?

Nope, use the PPS to spray Target 6500. No problem. I mostly use my CAT H2O gun and a compressor though.

Tim, I have a 2qt pressure pot but I can't get larger tips/nozzles for the my gun and the largest I have is 1.7.  One of the reasons I bought the MM3 was to use exclusively for pigmented coats.  My pot set up is now used for clear coats only.

I have some high solids primer from Target Coatings that I plan on using on an upcoming job and I would like to start using the PPS system but not if it will be a non starter with this product.

Without thinning, I doubt you will be able to spray that primer very easily with the mini mite 3. It has a Zahn #4 rating of 60 (centipoise 850) which is the same as the old EM6500. The new 6500 with the acrylic base has a Zahn #4 rating of 30. I have had problems spraying the old 6500 using my Q4 without using a pressure pot and compressor. Even then I wasn't entirely happy with the atomization. I had slow down a lot, good thing it levels well.
Tim

If I have to thin it a bit that's fine.  I don't know if I'll get to it this weekend but I'll post an update on how everything goes.
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2014, 11:42 PM »
If I have to thin it a bit that's fine.  I don't know if I'll get to it this weekend but I'll post an update on how everything goes.

You could use another primer. The SW primers are good and easier to spray.
Do you really need that high a build?
Tim

Offline gdorfner

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2014, 07:19 PM »
I too am looking to buy an HLVP sprayer to paint my kitchen cabinets and doors.  I don't want to use oil based paint, so looking to use something like Benjamin Moore's Advance waterborne Alkyd enamel.   Any recommendations on a moderately priced HLVP that can handle a water based paint?

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2014, 07:08 AM »
Reasonably priced is a relative term, particularly with regards to spray equipment. Doubly so on a Festool site.
Here is the link to the recent review of HVLP systems that Fine Woodworking did recently.
Tim
http://www.fujispray.com/Fine%20Woodworking%20Article%20-%20SprayforLess%202014

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2015, 01:22 AM »
Bump-

Any feedback on the Fuji minimite or lph-400 as an HVLP Setup?

How does the Fuji minimite setup compare to say an Iwata lph-400 with a good compressor?

I had been thinking down the road that the iwata was my upgrade path. The Fuji, by comparison is a bargain so I wondered how they would compare.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline roblg3

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2015, 08:40 AM »
I use fuji minimite 3.  Im a total novice.  I got this finish with very little practice.
Rob Gardner
Operator
RL3 Enterprises

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline crsowa

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2015, 12:56 PM »
The Fuji minimite has lived up to the hype for the first few months, although it has only been used a few times. I do not find it overly loud either...maybe it's just because I'm used to being around big, loud woodworking machines and have earmuffs on...  I did buy the 3m PPS system and adapter and find it so much easier to clean the system, compared to the stock cup and filtering system.  The true test will be in the spring when I spray latex paint on my new cupboards and cabinets that I have been refacing. But, so far, so good!  I recommend it!
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2015, 02:14 PM »
Thanks for the posts in favor of the Minimite.  I purchased a Wagner HVLP from Amazon based on rave reviews (thinking about spraying trim outside), but as I approach doing some built-ins, I'm not sure I want to risk it with a $100 sprayer.  here is the one I have still sitting in the box: http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0518080-Control-Spray-Sprayer/dp/B003PGQI48/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1426183874&sr=1-1&keywords=wagner+hvlp)

I'm curious how the Minimite stacks up from the pro's point of view (or I suppose the Wagner for that matter)

I'd just hate to use $5,000+ worth of festools to make sure my built ins look awesome, only to bring the piece down a notch at the final stage (the stage on display for all to see).  Why go to the trouble of making awesome screw free joints if the end result is orange peel, or other "blemishes").  I see a lot of white paint spraying in my near future for my own personal home based projects (trim, window seats, built ins, fireplace surround, smaller furniture, etc.)

I'm a hobbyist, so I don't think I can justify a large compressor system (nor would likely have the expertise to appreciate the difference).  If the Minimite is the right fit (or the Wagner I still have in the box for that matter), it would be good to know.  If there is another option that is even a better fit, I'm all ears there as well.

If I have to dig into my wallet further (without going too crazy of course) I am willing to do so for this critical step as long as it makes the right difference.  (in other words, if the difference between my $100 sprayer to the Minimite (or from the Minimite to something more robust) is marginal, I can decide for the "occasional" household hobby project.

I appreciate the feedback thus far and look forward to your direction.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2015, 03:35 PM »
If there is another option that is even a better fit, I'm all ears there as well.

There is nothing wrong with a high quality coating and a good brush.

I like Fuji and would recommend them to anyone who really wants to spray, but getting great results is less about the machine and more experience with the coatings, mil thickness, temperature, ventilation etc.

I think for the occasional hobbyist, spraying maybe more of investment in dollars and time than they bargain for.
You can go nuts trying to create a "clean" room etc. to accomplish a finish that ultimately you may be as happy if you just applied it with a brush.

 
Tim

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2015, 12:26 AM »
Thanks tim.

If there is another option that is even a better fit, I'm all ears there as well.

There is nothing wrong with a high quality coating and a good brush.

I like Fuji and would recommend them to anyone who really wants to spray, but getting great results is less about the machine and more experience with the coatings, mil thickness, temperature, ventilation etc.

I think for the occasional hobbyist, spraying maybe more of investment in dollars and time than they bargain for.
You can go nuts trying to create a "clean" room etc. to accomplish a finish that ultimately you may be as happy if you just applied it with a brush.

 
Tim
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline crsowa

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2015, 10:48 AM »
If there is another option that is even a better fit, I'm all ears there as well.

There is nothing wrong with a high quality coating and a good brush.

I like Fuji and would recommend them to anyone who really wants to spray, but getting great results is less about the machine and more experience with the coatings, mil thickness, temperature, ventilation etc.

I think for the occasional hobbyist, spraying maybe more of investment in dollars and time than they bargain for.
You can go nuts trying to create a "clean" room etc. to accomplish a finish that ultimately you may be as happy if you just applied it with a brush.

 
Tim

Agreed.  For most of my work, I'm either brushing or wiping it on.  The sprayer just makes quicker work of some of the larger jobs.
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2015, 12:03 PM »
My wallet thanks this thread :).

What would be the best way to get an even coat(s) of white on say birch ply or similar white painted project?  I want to make some built ins that i will plan to paint white.  If I can paint with brush, roller, or wipe without brush stokes that would seem to be the way to go.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2015, 07:36 AM »
Hello I use the Fuji Super series 4 stage unit with a Fuji gravity XPC gun/ 3m PPS setup

I would never dream of spraying latex paint and use exclusively Sher-Wood Kem Aqua WB Lacquer and M.L.Campbell Aqualente WB stain blocking primer on Kitchen doors

I will be trying out the M.L.Campbell Aqualente WB Lacquer soon as they colour match to the Benjamin Moore colour charts

Using a 1.4MM needle and HS cap for the primer and 1.3 MM for the top coat Lacquer

Once you use WB lacquers you never would want to spray latex, just a beautiful factory look finish that latex can't match

No thinning required, use the 3M PPS setup to eliminate micro bubbles in the finish

30 min dry/ recoat time depending on humidity and temperature

Hope this helps out

Bruce [smile]


Hand Woodworking

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2015, 08:25 AM »
What would be the best way to get an even coat(s) of white on say birch ply or similar white painted project?

What paint are you using or have you chosen?
My first thought would be to pick a brush or brushs that will work to get the finish you want. See Scott Burt's primer on brushes. You will have to do some test pieces to find out what works for you. I like the higher quality SW paints.

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2015, 09:34 AM »
I haven't selected a paint or brush. It will all be new to me so I'm all ears. Thanks for the suggestions!

What would be the best way to get an even coat(s) of white on say birch ply or similar white painted project?

What paint are you using or have you chosen?
My first thought would be to pick a brush or brushs that will work to get the finish you want. See Scott Burt's primer on brushes. You will have to do some test pieces to find out what works for you. I like the higher quality SW paints.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1914
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #40 on: March 20, 2015, 10:13 AM »
I've had good results on cabinets using General Finishes milk paint topped with their enduro clear poly. Used both air assisted airless and HVLP
+1

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3483
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #41 on: March 20, 2015, 11:34 AM »
I haven't selected a paint or brush. It will all be new to me so I'm all ears. Thanks for the suggestions!

Scott Burt has been very kind to share his knowledge here and on his site, so I would definitely check out what he and the community that posts there have to say.
This entry on water borne trim paint and the discussion is very good. As is stated BM Advance or BM satin impervo 314 are good products.
Tim

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2015, 11:37 AM »
Awesome advice. Thanks all!
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline Srbrownjr175

  • Posts: 28
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #43 on: March 28, 2015, 10:45 PM »
What's the best (most comfortable) gun style for Gravity or bottom feed? Mostly used for built ins.

Steve

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3483
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #44 on: March 28, 2015, 11:29 PM »
If I had To choose just one, Gravity with PPS.
Tim

Offline Srbrownjr175

  • Posts: 28
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #45 on: March 28, 2015, 11:33 PM »
Thanks Tim I'm looking at the FUJI Semi-pro 2.

Offline sgt_rjp

  • Posts: 92
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2015, 09:59 PM »
I had written off the semi-pro model since it was only 2 stage and had chosen the mini-mite3 and even thought about the Q4.  But now I'm back to the semi-pro.  I've seen a review that says that it can even handle latex paint.  It's interesting that it quotes a 1400w motor and even CFM rating but none of the other do.  I'm sure it's not the quality that the others are, and I'm sure the others are excellent sprayers, but I'm thinking that the semi-pro model may just be what this DIY guy needs.  Well, this and PPS :)

Offline BPCFinishing

  • Posts: 84
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2015, 10:29 PM »
http://www.amazon.com/High-Pressure-Gravity-Feed-Spray/dp/B004SQS68U/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1427768543&sr=8-7&keywords=hvlp+sprayer  I use this with excellent results.  Just run it using my bostitch 5 gal compressor and once the settings are dialed in I can spray continuously without losing pressure (yes compressor will run but pressure stays at a level that doesn't effect the tool pressure).  If you have a 5gal+ compressor right now this is a great option.  Here's a sample of a door with some SW Kem aqua+ sprayed on. 217410-0
Ts55, ct26, ro90, rts400, of1400, df500, cxs, mft, ....to be continued

Offline sgt_rjp

  • Posts: 92
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2015, 06:39 PM »
Looks good, but I'd need a new compressor and then have to worry about filtering and drying the air.  I've read a lot about that gun though, and it looks great for the price.  I think you can even convert it to PPS.

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #49 on: May 03, 2015, 11:41 AM »
Hello I use the Agualente Precat WB pigmented topcoat lacquer and Sher-Wood Kem Aqua Pigment Lacquer
 Aqualente stain-blocking water Borne primer
The spray guns I use are the Apollo 7500 pressurized gravity and Fuji XPC pressurized gravity setup with 3m PPS, I have used the clear and blue lids with WB lacquer and primer with no issues, maybe I should just use the blue lids now
Hand Woodworking

Offline Allyson

  • Posts: 33
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #50 on: May 03, 2015, 11:48 AM »
Thanks for the posts in favor of the Minimite.  I purchased a Wagner HVLP from Amazon based on rave reviews (thinking about spraying trim outside), but as I approach doing some built-ins, I'm not sure I want to risk it with a $100 sprayer.  here is the one I have still sitting in the box: http://www.amazon.com/Wagner-0518080-Control-Spray-Sprayer/dp/B003PGQI48/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1426183874&sr=1-1&keywords=wagner+hvlp)

I'm curious how the Minimite stacks up from the pro's point of view (or I suppose the Wagner for that matter)
Why don't you consider having a professional finisher do your finishing work?  Many of us specialize in bringing someone's gorgeous woodwork to life.  There are exceptional finishers in all areas, and it's worth it...we have the equipment and expertise to do that work, while you have the equipment and talent to do what you do.  You are right about finishing -- if it's not your expertise, doing it could lessen the overall look of your work.

I'd just hate to use $5,000+ worth of festools to make sure my built ins look awesome, only to bring the piece down a notch at the final stage (the stage on display for all to see).  Why go to the trouble of making awesome screw free joints if the end result is orange peel, or other "blemishes").  I see a lot of white paint spraying in my near future for my own personal home based projects (trim, window seats, built ins, fireplace surround, smaller furniture, etc.)

I'm a hobbyist, so I don't think I can justify a large compressor system (nor would likely have the expertise to appreciate the difference).  If the Minimite is the right fit (or the Wagner I still have in the box for that matter), it would be good to know.  If there is another option that is even a better fit, I'm all ears there as well.

If I have to dig into my wallet further (without going too crazy of course) I am willing to do so for this critical step as long as it makes the right difference.  (in other words, if the difference between my $100 sprayer to the Minimite (or from the Minimite to something more robust) is marginal, I can decide for the "occasional" household hobby project.

I appreciate the feedback thus far and look forward to your direction.

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #51 on: May 03, 2015, 12:19 PM »
Hello I personally wouldn't any go near the Wagner, I would suggest spending your money wisely and go with the Fuji Mini-Mite T series 3 or 4 stage depending what your spraying. The Fuji T series pressure gravity feed gun is a great spray gun included in the kit
Using 1.4mm cap set spraying WB pigmented topcoat lacquers for the perfect finish

Bruce
Hand Woodworking

Offline alexander

  • Posts: 26
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2015, 10:57 AM »
Hi,

I'm jumping in the topic.

I'm looking to get in the HVLP paint system too. I plan to paint all kind of furnitures and built-ins, and occasionally my old truck. The price where I live are kind of way expensive... so I will get it from UK where they have good packages. I'm looking into the Fuji Mini-Mite 4 with a T70 spray gun. A guess I will take the gravity gun for a start. For the air caps, the gun comes with a 1.3mm. Should I take some other air caps? what are the most used ones? I would prefer to order them with the package, instead to have to order them after and pay some shipping as expensive as the air cap.

I was wondering, can we paint some walls with such a system, like the Wagner systems? I guess for that it would be better to go with the pressure pot + suction gun, since the capacity of paint is too small for a gravity gun.

Thanks for any input.

Alex


Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2015, 11:44 AM »
Hello Alex I would also purchase the extra Air Cap Set 1.5mm but it always depends what product you would be spraying.

For my setup I use a 1.5 mm Air Cap Set/3M PPS for spraying kitchen doors and cabinets using WB pigmented Lacquer.

I really would not use the Fuji to spray walls but would look into an airless set

Bruce
Hand Woodworking

Offline alexander

  • Posts: 26
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2015, 12:10 PM »
Thank you, for your input.

I just looked at the 3M PPS system seems quite interesting. For the Fuji T70 gravity gun it seems I would need the #18 PPS adapter. Is that right?

Thanks Alex

Offline Allyson

  • Posts: 33
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2015, 03:43 PM »
I use the gravity PPS system.  I use a couple of different sizes.  I love the system, and re-use the inserts and caps (for water-based products) several times.  They are great if you need to store product for a bit.  You can just put a cap on the PPS cup and save. 

There are good lists online that denote the adaptors that go with specific guns and whether it's a gravity or bottom-feed gun.

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2015, 04:53 PM »
Hello I use the Fuji XPC and Apollo 7500 spray gun. What I like about the Apollo gun is that you can se as a pressure bottom feed or pressure gravity feed to suit your spray preferences.
The T75  pressure gravity gun uses a #2
My friend really enjoys this gun, it came out after I purchased my Fuji Super 4


Bruce
« Last Edit: May 06, 2015, 07:33 PM by brewster201 »
Hand Woodworking

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3483
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2015, 05:13 PM »
For the Fuji T70 gravity gun it seems I would need the #18 PPS adapter. Is that right?

Yes. #18 PPS™ adapter

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2015, 07:28 PM »
 T-70 uses the #18 PPS adapter

T-75 gravity gun uses the #2 adapter
Hand Woodworking

Offline alexander

  • Posts: 26
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2015, 07:01 AM »
Thanks guys for your input!

Now I just need to find where to get the 3M PPS around where I live or order it somewhere in Europe. If anyone has a good address... Being in small country has it disadvantages for shopping around.

Alex


Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2015, 02:16 PM »
OK, so I just bought a used Fuji setup.  It had the XT gun, the Super 4 Special Edition 4-stage turbine, and a bunch of extra goodies (nozzle sizes, etc.).  I was pleased when I spoke to Fuji tech support (top notch, by the way) to learn that the older Super 4 has the same motor and power and the Mini-Mite, and actually runs quieter.  They confirmed that the XT gun is as good as the one that the mini-mite has, it just takes a little more effort to adjust the spray.

I am excited to start to play with laying on finishes with this setup.  Thanks to all for the earlier advice!

In my near future, I want to respray the roof of my truck, so I may start a tread asking for advice as I come up with a game plan there. 
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

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Offline WarnerConstCo.

  • Posts: 4076
    • Warner Mill Works
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2015, 06:22 PM »
I bought a graco 9.5 hvlp set up a while ago with 2 guns.  Not sure how good it works, not real sure where I put it to be honest.

Offline greg mann

  • Posts: 1797
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2015, 11:13 PM »
I bought a graco 9.5 hvlp set up a while ago with 2 guns.  Not sure how good it works, not real sure where I put it to be honest.

 I think this defines rock bottom. [poke]
Greg Mann
Oakland, Michigan

Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 822
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #63 on: October 09, 2017, 06:10 PM »
Great thread with some very useful information! Commenting to follow, and to see if anyone now has more to add.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!