Author Topic: HVLP purchase help!  (Read 21502 times)

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Offline crsowa

  • Posts: 81
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HVLP purchase help!
« on: December 08, 2014, 10:31 AM »
looking to step up my finishing game soon.  Looking into getting an HVLP setup, just not sure which one and I KNOW that you all have some opinions.  For some background... I am solely a hobby woodworker.... But I make a lot of things, no cabinets or anything... Yet, but I'm sure I will someday.  I make book shelves, furniture, gifts, tables, chairs, etc.  I don't need anything too large, as it will most likely only get used a couple times a month.  I use stains, latex paints (sometimes), polyurethanes, so water/oil based compatibility is important.  Also, looking to spend $400 or less, hopefully. Thanks guys!
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

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Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3342
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2014, 11:09 AM »
Suggest that you get a copy of Fine Woodworking, #242, October 2014.  There's an article by Teri Masaschi on p. 50 on low-dollar HVLP rigs that might give you some useful information.  Just remember, you get what you pay for (and you pay for what you get)... 

- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline crsowa

  • Posts: 81
  • Stupid Polar Vortex....
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2014, 12:28 PM »
There's a good chance I have that copy at home.  I've been to busy to read any mags the last few months.  Thanks for the heads up!
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline roblg3

  • Posts: 751
  • Transforming into a whole new machine
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2014, 12:49 PM »
I made my first HVLP purchase recently.  Others here, some pros!, like the affordability and the very good results that we achieve with the FUJI minimite 3.  Very well rated and as most hvlp very compact.  I'm a total novice with it and clients are amazed at how well i can match my custom stuff to their factory finished stuff.  It was easy right out of the box!
Rob Gardner
Operator
RL3 Enterprises

Offline sae

  • Posts: 841
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2014, 01:49 PM »
Just remember, you get what you pay for (and you pay for what you get)...


Yes and no. I've had really good success w/ the Harbor Freight Professional gun, something that I haven't been able to replicate in some $300+ setups. This has been corroborated by a few fellow hobbyist painters as well. Problem is if you ask the pros, they'll turn their nose up to you and say it's user error, and rattle on about how much their Devilbiss/SATA/Iwata setup cost them.  [wink]

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2014, 08:20 PM »
I've heard good things about the Fuji Minimite.

I purchased the Wagner Control Spray Max HVLP on Amazon for around $100.  I considered the Minimite, but bought the wagner for simple stuff like spraying trim, etc.

Now that I see built ins in my future, I wonder if I made the right choice.  (The Wagner has good reviews, I haven't even opened it yet as I am waiting for Spring).

I made my first HVLP purchase recently.  Others here, some pros!, like the affordability and the very good results that we achieve with the FUJI minimite 3.  Very well rated and as most hvlp very compact.  I'm a total novice with it and clients are amazed at how well i can match my custom stuff to their factory finished stuff.  It was easy right out of the box!
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5260
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2014, 08:47 PM »
Most of the system will spray the vast majority of finish and stains. Latex paint is the killer for the smaller systems. There is the option of thinning the paint, I prefer the paint at full body. The smallest nozzle I use for latex is 2.0 mm. At times I do use a 2.7 mm nozzle.

If you're using an HVLP gun with heavy material the turbine may not produce enough pressure to get the fluid smoothly to the nozzle. A pressure pot solves this problem really well.

3M PPS is a system you need to look into. For wood finishing products use the 125 micron lids.

Tom

Offline Iceclimber

  • Posts: 504
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2014, 12:19 PM »
You get what you pay for with sprayers.

So e will say talk to a pro and they bad mouth inexpensive machines. To that i would say some people have a different idea of what a quality finish does and does not look like.

The other thing to consider is inexpensive spray setups don't last very long when compared to quality ones.

http://www.lexaire.com

http://www.lemmer.com

Kapex, MFT/3, MFT, CMS VL, 1400, TS75, Carvex420, CXS, DTS 400, Midi, CT36, RO90 and a bunch of other little crap and accessories it would be nuts to get into listing..

Offline crsowa

  • Posts: 81
  • Stupid Polar Vortex....
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2014, 12:27 PM »
Okay.... I got impatient and pulled the trigger on the Fuji Mini Mite 3.  Does anyone know what adapter I will need for the 3m pps system?  Thanks
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 01:23 PM by crsowa »
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5260
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2014, 01:47 PM »
Need to know which model gun.

Xpc-G has the side mount and takes a #10 adapter

T-70 and other bottom feeds take a #18 adapter

T-75G gravity feed takes a #2 adapter

What's your culinary specialty?

Tom

Offline roblg3

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Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2014, 04:39 PM »
Just an insight...Tom knows what he's talking about here!  everything he's ever told me has totally checked out.
Rob Gardner
Operator
RL3 Enterprises

Offline crsowa

  • Posts: 81
  • Stupid Polar Vortex....
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2014, 06:23 PM »
I got the T70.  Looked it all up.  Ordered the adapter, and the 3m pps mini cup and box of lids and inserts... Thanks all!!

I teach Culinary arts at a school in West Michigan.  I am the restaurant chef.  I specialize in French cuisine and charcuterie.
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline rnt80

  • Posts: 953
    • Agape Wood Design
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2014, 10:37 PM »
Tom, do you use the 200 micron for paints and/or tinted lacquers.  I got the MM3 a few weeks ago and intend on using it exclusively for spraying those products.  I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5260
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2014, 11:52 PM »
I got the T70.  Looked it all up.  Ordered the adapter, and the 3m pps mini cup and box of lids and inserts... Thanks all!!

I teach Culinary arts at a school in West Michigan.  I am the restaurant chef.  I specialize in French cuisine and charcuterie.

Make sure you get some blue lids for latex. They have 125 micron filters in the lid instead of the 200 micron filters.

Asked cause I love to cook, well above average at it.

Is that the campus in 'Kazoo, off 31? If so my sisters backyard is the campus.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5260
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2014, 11:54 PM »
Tom, do you use the 200 micron for paints and/or tinted lacquers.  I got the MM3 a few weeks ago and intend on using it exclusively for spraying those products.  I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.

At first there was no choice, replacing the 200's with the blue 125's. The 200's work fine with stain and shellac.

Tom

Offline crsowa

  • Posts: 81
  • Stupid Polar Vortex....
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2014, 10:09 AM »
I ordered the 125 micron lids only. Will they work for most things?

I work at a campus in Muskegon.  The Culinary Institute of Michigan.
Chris

Chef by day, Woodworker by night..... and weekends.

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3472
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #16 on: December 10, 2014, 10:17 AM »
I ordered the 125 micron lids only. Will they work for most things?

Yes. That's all I use.
I always strain before use anyway.
It's a good habit to get into. Mise en Place as it were.

I am the restaurant chef.  I specialize in French cuisine and charcuterie.
The perfect background...I think cooking and carpentry/cabinet making have a lot in common.
Tim

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3472
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #17 on: December 10, 2014, 10:21 AM »
I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.

Hu? Which filter on which fluid tube? Which lacquer were you using? If you were using Target 6500 (pigmented) lacquer the mini mite 3 will not be able to atomize it without a lot of frustration resulting in a less than optimal finish.
Tim

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #18 on: December 10, 2014, 11:28 AM »
How does the Fuji minimite setup compare to say an Iwata lph-400 with a good compressor?

I had been thinking down the road that the iwata was my upgrade path. The Fuji, by comparison is a bargain so I wondered how they would compare.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5260
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #19 on: December 10, 2014, 01:19 PM »
I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.

Hu? Which filter on which fluid tube? Which lacquer were you using? If you were using Target 6500 (pigmented) lacquer the mini mite 3 will not be able to atomize it without a lot of frustration resulting in a less than optimal finish.
Tim

I believe he is referring to the 200 micron filter in the PPS lid.

Getting the fluid to the nozzle is the most important aspect of all of this. That is why I use a pot so often. No matter how thick I can get the pressure up in the pit to move the fluid. After that all the turbine has to do is supply air cap air. The guns are the same across the board, pick the proper nozzle and air cap, you're good to go. Most times I have the sets mixed, one up or down on the air cap, depends on what I'm trying to accomplish.

In the video with the door finish the stain was a 0.8 nozzle with a 1.0 air cap, finish was was 1.0 nozzle with a 1.3 air cap.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5260
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2014, 01:26 PM »
This is the stand/filter system I use when I have a cup on the gun (hold over for the auto days). If the fluid is going in the pot it is strained with a bucket filter.

http://www.eastwood.com/paint-gun-accessory-kit.html

Tom

Offline rnt80

  • Posts: 953
    • Agape Wood Design
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2014, 04:08 PM »
I ended up taking the filter off of the fluid tube after spraying some tinted lacquer since I wasn't able to get the fluid to the gun I wanted.

Hu? Which filter on which fluid tube? Which lacquer were you using? If you were using Target 6500 (pigmented) lacquer the mini mite 3 will not be able to atomize it without a lot of frustration resulting in a less than optimal finish.
Tim

Tom is right, I was referring to the 200 micron filter on the end of the tube.  I was using Target's pigmented lacquer and after removing that filter it sprayed just fine.  I too filter everything before I spray it so I wasn't concerned about contaminating the finish by removing the filter at the end of the fluid tube in the cup. 
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline rnt80

  • Posts: 953
    • Agape Wood Design
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2014, 04:16 PM »
Are the filters in the PPS removable?   Has anyone had issues with pushing thick material through the PPS system?  I have some high solids primer from Target Coatings that I plan on using on an upcoming job and I would like to start using the PPS system but not if it will be a non starter with this product.
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5260
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2014, 04:58 PM »
Are the filters in the PPS removable?   Has anyone had issues with pushing thick material through the PPS system?  I have some high solids primer from Target Coatings that I plan on using on an upcoming job and I would like to start using the PPS system but not if it will be a non starter with this product.

Yes, the filter on the lid is removable. There is a tab on it so it is easy to peel off. I highly recommend straining the product if you remove the lid strainer.

One other thing I highly recommend is a remote control switch for the turbine. I place the turbine away from the spray area, it made it a pain to turn the unit on and off. On the last job I used the Fact Cap remote control, it work very well. Fuji now markets a remote if you want to go with a same brand item.

Tom


Offline Tim Raleigh

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    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2014, 05:37 PM »
Has anyone had issues with pushing thick material through the PPS system?

Nope, use the PPS to spray Target 6500. No problem. I mostly use my CAT H2O gun and a compressor though.

I have some high solids primer from Target Coatings that I plan on using on an upcoming job and I would like to start using the PPS system but not if it will be a non starter with this product.

Without thinning, I doubt you will be able to spray that primer very easily with the mini mite 3. It has a Zahn #4 rating of 60 (centipoise 850) which is the same as the old EM6500. The new 6500 with the acrylic base has a Zahn #4 rating of 30. I have had problems spraying the old 6500 using my Q4 without using a pressure pot and compressor. Even then I wasn't entirely happy with the atomization. I had slow down a lot, good thing it levels well.
Tim

Offline rnt80

  • Posts: 953
    • Agape Wood Design
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2014, 08:11 PM »


Has anyone had issues with pushing thick material through the PPS system?

Nope, use the PPS to spray Target 6500. No problem. I mostly use my CAT H2O gun and a compressor though.

Tim, I have a 2qt pressure pot but I can't get larger tips/nozzles for the my gun and the largest I have is 1.7.  One of the reasons I bought the MM3 was to use exclusively for pigmented coats.  My pot set up is now used for clear coats only.

I have some high solids primer from Target Coatings that I plan on using on an upcoming job and I would like to start using the PPS system but not if it will be a non starter with this product.

Without thinning, I doubt you will be able to spray that primer very easily with the mini mite 3. It has a Zahn #4 rating of 60 (centipoise 850) which is the same as the old EM6500. The new 6500 with the acrylic base has a Zahn #4 rating of 30. I have had problems spraying the old 6500 using my Q4 without using a pressure pot and compressor. Even then I wasn't entirely happy with the atomization. I had slow down a lot, good thing it levels well.
Tim

If I have to thin it a bit that's fine.  I don't know if I'll get to it this weekend but I'll post an update on how everything goes.
Russell Tribby
Gilbert AZ
www.agapewooddesign.com

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3472
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2014, 11:42 PM »
If I have to thin it a bit that's fine.  I don't know if I'll get to it this weekend but I'll post an update on how everything goes.

You could use another primer. The SW primers are good and easier to spray.
Do you really need that high a build?
Tim

Offline gdorfner

  • Posts: 1
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2014, 07:19 PM »
I too am looking to buy an HLVP sprayer to paint my kitchen cabinets and doors.  I don't want to use oil based paint, so looking to use something like Benjamin Moore's Advance waterborne Alkyd enamel.   Any recommendations on a moderately priced HLVP that can handle a water based paint?

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3472
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2014, 07:08 AM »
Reasonably priced is a relative term, particularly with regards to spray equipment. Doubly so on a Festool site.
Here is the link to the recent review of HVLP systems that Fine Woodworking did recently.
Tim
http://www.fujispray.com/Fine%20Woodworking%20Article%20-%20SprayforLess%202014

Offline Grasshopper

  • Posts: 594
Re: HVLP purchase help!
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2015, 01:22 AM »
Bump-

Any feedback on the Fuji minimite or lph-400 as an HVLP Setup?

How does the Fuji minimite setup compare to say an Iwata lph-400 with a good compressor?

I had been thinking down the road that the iwata was my upgrade path. The Fuji, by comparison is a bargain so I wondered how they would compare.
Aspiring DIY'er (hence the name "grasshopper" as I am looking to learn from all the masters on the FOG)- TS 55, OF 1400, MFT/3, VS600 Dovetail Jig, MFS700+ MFS2000 extension profiles, Kapex, Kapex UG set, T12 Li set(x2), CT22, Domino, Carvex, RO90, RO150, MFK700, CMS-VL, Qwas super pack & Cool Wife.