Author Topic: I got Blue, not Green  (Read 11783 times)

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Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2017, 07:27 PM »
Well that didn't work.
What do you mean by "That didn't work"?
Bill
Most Confused!

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Offline Swordstriper

  • Posts: 2
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2017, 09:58 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2017, 12:24 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!
Thanks for the advice. Went out and gout the re-build kit for my T70 and replaced all of the seals.
Now according to BM, they recommend a 1.3mil needle and cap and 7.5 psi and 5-10% reduction. I will try this and see if it works.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2017, 12:56 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!
Thanks for the advice. Went out and gout the re-build kit for my T70 and replaced all of the seals.
Now according to BM, they recommend a 1.3mil needle and cap and 7.5 psi and 5-10% reduction. I will try this and see if it works.
Cheers,
JC
This "may" apply to your T70 as well but might be meaningless overall!   I was fiddling with one of my Fuji Gxpc guns connected through a 3M mini-regulator to a 5 gallon tank.  That being quiet unlike the turbine, I heard air leaking from the handle grip.  There were a total of three leaks.  The aluminum nipple goes into a tapped hole that has a shoulder which didn't allow it to seal.  The quick disconnect fitting also holds the handle on but when the handle was tight the pipe thread wasn't.  Just forward of where the nipple is threaded hole into the gun body with a plug that has a straight thread which is loose by its nature.  I used Teflon tape on all three and did the same on my other Gxpc.  Would these leaks cause any issues?  Don't know but it's a heck of way to design a tool that uses air with leaks like this.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 02:20 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!
Thanks for the advice. Went out and gout the re-build kit for my T70 and replaced all of the seals.
Now according to BM, they recommend a 1.3mil needle and cap and 7.5 psi and 5-10% reduction. I will try this and see if it works.
Cheers,
JC
This "may" apply to your T70 as well but might be meaningless overall!   I was fiddling with one of my Fuji Gxpc guns connected through a 3M mini-regulator to a 5 gallon tank.  That being quiet unlike the turbine, I heard air leaking from the handle grip.  There were a total of three leaks.  The aluminum nipple goes into a tapped hole that has a shoulder which didn't allow it to seal.  The quick disconnect fitting also holds the handle on but when the handle was tight the pipe thread wasn't.  Just forward of where the nipple is threaded hole into the gun body with a plug that has a straight thread which is loose by its nature.  I used Teflon tape on all three and did the same on my other Gxpc.  Would these leaks cause any issues?  Don't know but it's a heck of way to design a tool that uses air with leaks like this.

Interesting. Let me check my gun.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 02:56 PM »
Okay. Test done. Another failure.

Talk to BM in that states and they also recommend, 7.5psi with a 1.3mm needle when using HVLP, as per the pdf I posted.
They told me that they were able to spray between 3.5-4.5 wet mils in a single pass. They do not recommend doing a second pass to obtain they required thickness.
Now, how the heck do they get a 4-5 inch fan and thick enough for one pass without splatter? I call BS on that. With a Q4 or Q5 there is no problem pushing the paint through the gun, the problem is that the 1.3 cap set does not provide enough air to atomize the paint. So what to do.

Cheers,
JC


Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 03:07 PM »
Okay. Test done. Another failure.

Talk to BM in that states and they also recommend, 7.5psi with a 1.3mm needle when using HVLP, as per the pdf I posted.
They told me that they were able to spray between 3.5-4.5 wet mils in a single pass. They do not recommend doing a second pass to obtain they required thickness.
Now, how the heck do they get a 4-5 inch fan and thick enough for one pass without splatter? I call BS on that. With a Q4 or Q5 there is no problem pushing the paint through the gun, the problem is that the 1.3 cap set does not provide enough air to atomize the paint. So what to do.

Cheers,
JC
Should have asked them as to how one checks for that 7.5psi on a HVLP system?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 03:24 PM »
The Q5 has a variable speed knob. I asked Fuji to show me where 7.5 would be on the scale. So I set it there and actually increased the pressure to full pressure and it still comes out lumpy. I just watched a video on the web, and this person sprays same paint, Q4, gravity feed gun,looks like the 9600-G-XPC gun, 1.5mil and thinned 10%. It works for him.
Maybe its my gun.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 04:15 PM »
Checked my gun, hose connectors, no leaks.


Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2017, 05:58 PM »
I AM A HAPPY CAMPER
Testing is done. Was able to produce a flawless spray. Now it's only being drying for an hour but it looks perfect. So what did I do.

I decided to bring out my Earlex Pro 8 gun out of retirement and give it a try. I used a 1.3mil needle, no thinning and full power on the Q5. I was able to get the paint to spray on thick and not lumpy like my T70 with same needle size. Now the only difference is that the Earlex uses the same air cap for 1.3mil needle and 2.0mil needle and has 2 extra holes for atomization. As I like the feel of the T70 gun better, tomorrow morning I will try the 2mil air cap and the 1.3 mil needle in my T70 and see what happens. If that doesn't work I will get Fuji to drill two small additional holes in their 1.3mil air cap.

Everyone wants a photo. I will see what it looks like after a few hours and if it looks nice I will post a photo.

Here is a link to the Earlex Pro 8 Gun. You can see the additional holes on the 1.3mm to 2.0mm air cap.

Earlex Pro 8 Gun
Cheers,
P.S. I should write a book on my experiences. Could save many of us a lot of time.

JC
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 06:03 PM by JCLP »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2017, 06:25 PM »
I AM A HAPPY CAMPER
Testing is done. Was able to produce a flawless spray. Now it's only being drying for an hour but it looks perfect. So what did I do.

I decided to bring out my Earlex Pro 8 gun out of retirement and give it a try. I used a 1.3mil needle, no thinning and full power on the Q5. I was able to get the paint to spray on thick and not lumpy like my T70 with same needle size. Now the only difference is that the Earlex uses the same air cap for 1.3mil needle and 2.0mil needle and has 2 extra holes for atomization. As I like the feel of the T70 gun better, tomorrow morning I will try the 2mil air cap and the 1.3 mil needle in my T70 and see what happens. If that doesn't work I will get Fuji to drill two small additional holes in their 1.3mil air cap.

Everyone wants a photo. I will see what it looks like after a few hours and if it looks nice I will post a photo.

Here is a link to the Earlex Pro 8 Gun. You can see the additional holes on the 1.3mm to 2.0mm air cap.

Earlex Pro 8 Gun
Cheers,
P.S. I should write a book on my experiences. Could save many of us a lot of time.

JC
The Gxpc has 1.4mm but not a 1.3mm.  The 1.4mm does have three holes on each side.  The 1mm/0.8mm both have six more extra holes, three above the needle/nozzle opening and three below it.  I didn't know this till a few months ago that as you decrease the needle/nozzle/cap set size the narrower the fan adjustment range.  That's why Tom uses a bigger air cap at times.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2017, 06:47 PM »
Hi Bill,
Your right on the extra air holes. It's interesting that on the T7* series guns that they have less holes. Benjamin Moore used the Capspray MaxumII gun, and they too have extra holes. That could be the difference. I will get Fuji to drill me a couple of holes, as I don't have a bit that small or maybe see if the GXPC air cap fits the T70.
Till tomorrow.

JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2017, 07:24 PM »
Hi Bill,
Your right on the extra air holes. It's interesting that on the T7* series guns that they have less holes. Benjamin Moore used the Capspray MaxumII gun, and they too have extra holes. That could be the difference. I will get Fuji to drill me a couple of holes, as I don't have a bit that small or maybe see if the GXPC air cap fits the T70.
Till tomorrow.

JC
Fuji will do that for you?  Some of those holes are at an angle so that might be tricky to do on your own.

What's still confusing is that Tom uses a T-70 but with a Q4!

I'm tempted to pick some BM Advance and try it myself.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4755
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2017, 10:53 PM »
or maybe see if the GXPC air cap fits the T70.
Till tomorrow.

JC

It does not.

Good to see you're making headway.

Tom

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2017, 10:44 AM »
Thank Tom.
Just found a leak in my hose. Going to get a new one.
Stay tune.

JC

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4755
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2017, 02:06 PM »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2017, 03:11 PM »
This hose.

https://www.amazon.com/25-Hose-HVLP-Turbine-Sprayer/dp/B00GAFE6LI

Tom
Thanks Tom. Got a new hose from Fuji.
So Fuji and I think it is the iteranl workings of the gun that could be corrected. So we are going exchange my gun for a new one. If that doesn't solve the it, the problem could be located down the arm, across the shoulder, above the neck and somewhere between the ears.

Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2017, 03:33 PM »
Thanks Tom. Got a new hose from Fuji.
So Fuji and I think it is the iteranl workings of the gun that could be corrected. So we are going exchange my gun for a new one. If that doesn't solve the it, the problem could be located down the arm, across the shoulder, above the neck and somewhere between the ears.

Cheers,
JC
OMG!  How close do you live to Fuji??  They sent me a whole new Gxpc when the air fitting that feeds the cup got tight and they said to force it out which ripped the threads with it.  I tapped the hole to a bigger size, made a new fitting out of aluminum with an added "O'ring to seal better and that's why I have two working Gxpc's now.  [big grin]
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2017, 03:51 PM »
Thanks Tom. Got a new hose from Fuji.
So Fuji and I think it is the iteranl workings of the gun that could be corrected. So we are going exchange my gun for a new one. If that doesn't solve the it, the problem could be located down the arm, across the shoulder, above the neck and somewhere between the ears.

Cheers,
JC
OMG!  How close do you live to Fuji??  They sent me a whole new Gxpc when the air fitting that feeds the cup got tight and they said to force it out which ripped the threads with it.  I tapped the hole to a bigger size, made a new fitting out of aluminum with an added "O'ring to seal better and that's why I have two working Gxpc's now.  [big grin]

I live 15-20 minutes away. Will be there 7:30am tomorrow morning to make the exchange and pick up some new stuff to try out.

Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2017, 06:16 PM »
More info.

I just got off the phone with BM and the recommendations for spraying Advance that they provide me, that I posted earlier, is based on Advance Base 1X white, not tinted. When you go to a darker colour, base 2x in my case and colour is called Escarpment, those specs do not apply as the paint does get much thicker the darker you tint it. Now my friend Tim, just sprayed white advance using the specs provide by BM and it worked. He did say it wasn't his favourite, but it looks fine. I called BM after talking to Tim to pick their brains a little further.

Tomorrow I will try thinning by 10% and using a larger needle, probably start at 1.8 and then climb to 2.0 with full power from Q5, after I get my new gun of course.
Cheers,
JC


Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3412
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2017, 10:05 PM »
I sprayed this mdf panel with white BM advance today using the T70 siphon feed and a 1.3 needle cap set. The mdf panel was primed 2 x with SW wall and wood sanded with 320 and 400 and the Advance was thinned 10% with distilled water
Tim
[ Specified attachment is not available ]
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 10:08 PM by Tim Raleigh »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2017, 04:09 PM »
So, what did I learn these last few weeks? How to spray Advance.

Also learned that many people that I have talked to have told me that they have no problem in spraying BM Advance with a 4 or 5 stage HVLP turbine but they all forget one very important detail, what colour are they spraying. The colour of the paint plays a very important role in determining what needle air cap set you will use and how much air you use for atomization.

For example, BM recommends for HVLP, 7.5psi, 1.3mil needle and 4-5 wet mils. This works well for Base 1 Advance colour white. In other words, right off the shelf. I was able to get good results following their recommendations with Base 1 White Advance. I still thin 10% though.
Now if you tint your paint to a medium grey, colour cc-518 Escarpment for instance, it requires Base 2 and a lot of colour/solids are added to the paint making it much thicker with a higher percentage of solids. So using the same specs you used for Base 1 White will not work with the medium grey colour. I would assume this is the same for any paint you tint.

So for Advance here is what I concluded.

Base 1, White. 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 1.3 mil and 10% thinning ( optional )

Base 2, CC-518 Escarpement, 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 2.0 mil needle and 10% thinning

So in the future, I think it would be very helpful that when somebody states on the fog that they have no problem spraying a particular  type/brand of paint, that they should provide everyone with more information, such as;
- Brand and Type of paint
- Colour and Base that was used
- size of needle and air cap set
- What stage of turbine ( hvlp in this case)
- what brand and type of gun they are using. This makes a big difference as every manufacture has their own way of delivering the air to the tip
- % thinned and with what
etc
I think this would go a long way in helping people that are new to spraying, ( Like me ).

Cheers,
JC
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 04:25 PM by JCLP »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2017, 04:27 PM »
I sprayed this mdf panel with white BM advance today using the T70 siphon feed and a 1.3 needle cap set. The mdf panel was primed 2 x with SW wall and wood sanded with 320 and 400 and the Advance was thinned 10% with distilled water
Tim
(Attachment Link)
Everything looks smooth when you're out of focus.  ;)

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4755
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2017, 04:51 PM »
So, what did I learn these last few weeks? How to spray Advance.

Also learned that many people that I have talked to have told me that they have no problem in spraying BM Advance with a 4 or 5 stage HVLP turbine but they all forget one very important detail, what colour are they spraying. The colour of the paint plays a very important role in determining what needle air cap set you will use and how much air you use for atomization.

For example, BM recommends for HVLP, 7.5psi, 1.3mil needle and 4-5 wet mils. This works well for Base 1 Advance colour white. In other words, right off the shelf. I was able to get good results following their recommendations with Base 1 White Advance. I still thin 10% though.
Now if you tint your paint to a medium grey, colour cc-518 Escarpment for instance, it requires Base 2 and a lot of colour/solids are added to the paint making it much thicker with a higher percentage of solids. So using the same specs you used for Base 1 White will not work with the medium grey colour. I would assume this is the same for any paint you tint.

So for Advance here is what I concluded.

Base 1, White. 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 1.3 mil and 10% thinning ( optional )

Base 2, CC-518 Escarpement, 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 2.0 mil needle and 10% thinning

So in the future, I think it would be very helpful that when somebody states on the fog that they have no problem spraying a particular  type/brand of paint, that they should provide everyone with more information, such as;
- Brand and Type of paint
- Colour and Base that was used
- size of needle and air cap set
- What stage of turbine ( hvlp in this case)
- what brand and type of gun they are using. This makes a big difference as every manufacture has their own way of delivering the air to the tip
- % thinned and with what
etc
I think this would go a long way in helping people that are new to spraying, ( Like me ).

Cheers,
JC

I believe the Advance in my video(s) is what we discussed you were having an issue with. In the videos I also stated what turbine, air cap set, thinning, etc.....

Any manufacture recommendation(s) are only a base line at best. Unless I'm asked about a specific I don't bother looking at the manufactures specs. Odds of my shop being exactly the same as the manufactures are not good. Environment is as important as the product and equipment.

Spraying is not just the mechanics of application, it's the nuances how the environment, material and equipment all work together.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2017, 06:44 PM »
JCLP:

So in the end(I lost track) there was nothing wrong with your T-70 or system that affected the end results?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2017, 10:22 PM »
JCLP:

So in the end(I lost track) there was nothing wrong with your T-70 or system that affected the end results?
Nope. Nothing was wrong with the equipment. Got a new hose though and some other stuff from Fuji.

Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2017, 08:37 AM »
If it's not one thing, it's another. Woke up this morning to find this on my panel. This is the Grey Advance that I have been spraying.
Any help/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

BM Advance, cc-518 colour, base 2, thinned 10%
2.0 needle and cap
Fuji T70 gun, Q5

Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2017, 08:49 AM »
If it's not one thing, it's another. Woke up this morning to find this on my panel. This is the Grey Advance that I have been spraying.
Any help/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

BM Advance, cc-518 colour, base 2, thinned 10%
2.0 needle and cap
Fuji T70 gun, Q5

Cheers,
JC
Fisheye Defects

Fisheye at SW
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 08:52 AM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4755
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2017, 09:03 AM »
Spray a couple of very dry coats, don't sand between coats. Sand the top coat, apply the final coat wet.

Was this panel sprayed with the new hose? Contaminant inside hose? No citrus fruits in the shop.

Tom

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2017, 09:04 AM »
If it's not one thing, it's another. Woke up this morning to find this on my panel. This is the Grey Advance that I have been spraying.
Any help/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

BM Advance, cc-518 colour, base 2, thinned 10%
2.0 needle and cap
Fuji T70 gun, Q5

Cheers,
JC
Fisheye Defects

Fisheye at SW

Thanks Bill. Been doing a lot of research and reading this morning. Could be solvent popping or fish eyes.

JC