Author Topic: I got Blue, not Green  (Read 11766 times)

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Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
I got Blue, not Green
« on: December 29, 2016, 02:42 PM »
Hi Everyone. I trust everyone had a great Christmas and that you were spoiled by Santa.
I didn't get any Festool green for Christmas but got some Blue. Got myself a Fuji Q5 at a great price. Now I'll be able to spray BM Advance, I hope.
Cheers.
JC

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline denovo

  • Posts: 22
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 06:23 PM »
What made you decide to go with the Q5?  It sounded like you were seriously considering going the AAA route.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 08:45 PM »
What made you decide to go with the Q5?  It sounded like you were seriously considering going the AAA route.
I purchased the Q5 because the deal was to good to pass up. I'm still looking at getting a AAA system though. I will eventually use my HVLP for small jobs like staining, applying poly on small items and small paint projects.
I still need to do a bit more research and make arrangements to go see a demo of CA Technologies H2O Waterbourne system.
Cheers,
JC

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 22
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2016, 09:01 AM »
I purchased the Q5 because the deal was to good to pass up. I'm still looking at getting a AAA system though. I will eventually use my HVLP for small jobs like staining, applying poly on small items and small paint projects.
I still need to do a bit more research and make arrangements to go see a demo of CA Technologies H2O Waterbourne system.
Cheers,
JC

I would probably do the same thing if I found the Q5 at a good price.  Let me know what you think of the setup when spraying BM Advance

Happy New Year!
- Bryan

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2016, 02:32 PM »
I purchased the Q5 because the deal was to good to pass up. I'm still looking at getting a AAA system though. I will eventually use my HVLP for small jobs like staining, applying poly on small items and small paint projects.
I still need to do a bit more research and make arrangements to go see a demo of CA Technologies H2O Waterbourne system.
Cheers,
JC

I would probably do the same thing if I found the Q5 at a good price.  Let me know what you think of the setup when spraying BM Advance

Happy New Year!
- Bryan

Well I just tried BM Advance tinted grey, which makes it thicker then pure white out of the can, and the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter. Now, a lot of people will say forget Advance and spray Kem Aqua or the equivalent, but I am determine to figure out the proper combination to get a great finish. So the testing continues.

First I tried at 2mm needle, thin 20% with distilled water and my T70 siphon gun. Not a bad finish resulted from this but still not happy.
Second test, I tried a 2.5mm needle, thinned 10% with distilled water and used my Earlex Pro 8 gun and was able to lay a thin wet coat. Great atomization from a $160.00 gun. it looked great when wet. No roughness.

I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2016, 02:49 PM »
I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC
If you think it's the need for more pressure on the cup or the product itself, why not try a pressure pot so you could put way over 10psi on the product?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2016, 03:28 PM »
I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC
If you think it's the need for more pressure on the cup or the product itself, why not try a pressure pot so you could put way over 10psi on the product?

I do have a quart size pressure pot from CA Technologies but the maximum allowed pressure in the pot is 10psi.Which is not enough for this Advance. I used a small compressor, Rolair JC10, to pressurize the pot to force the paint up the tube and to the gun tip and used all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. I could go with a larger pressure pot but I didn't want to spend $1000 for a pot. Trying to  be economical. The photo is the pressure pot one I have.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2016, 03:43 PM »

I do have a quart size pressure pot from CA Technologies but the maximum allowed pressure in the pot is 10psi.Which is not enough for this Advance. I used a small compressor, Rolair JC10, to pressurize the pot to force the paint up the tube and to the gun tip and used all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. I could go with a larger pressure pot but I didn't want to spend $1000 for a pot. Trying to  be economical. The photo is the pressure pot one I have.
Cheers,
JC
I have a two quart Fuji branded PP but it looks just like the CA Tech and cast into it's top, "50psi MAX" but it has a threaded lid.  I just read an old review of BM Advance vs SW Pro Classic and it stated don't thin.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 12:15 AM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 22
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2017, 07:26 PM »


Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC

Have you had time to conduct any more testing with the Q5 and BM Advanced?

Offline polarsea1

  • Posts: 286
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2017, 02:26 AM »
I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC
If you think it's the need for more pressure on the cup or the product itself, why not try a pressure pot so you could put way over 10psi on the product?

I do have a quart size pressure pot from CA Technologies but the maximum allowed pressure in the pot is 10psi.Which is not enough for this Advance. I used a small compressor, Rolair JC10, to pressurize the pot to force the paint up the tube and to the gun tip and used all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. I could go with a larger pressure pot but I didn't want to spend $1000 for a pot. Trying to  be economical. The photo is the pressure pot one I have.
Cheers,
JC

My Binks SG2 pot is rated to 50lb. You can find a decent one on ebay for a reasonable price.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 12:48 PM »
This is very frustrating. I don't know why I can't get a smooth coat when sprying Advance. Maybe I'm not spraying it on thick enough. Need to find my wet gauge. It should not be this difficult.
Going to try 1.8mil, no thinning with the Q5. Let see what happens.

Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 01:34 PM »
This is very frustrating. I don't know why I can't get a smooth coat when sprying Advance. Maybe I'm not spraying it on thick enough. Need to find my wet gauge. It should not be this difficult.
Going to try 1.8mil, no thinning with the Q5. Let see what happens.

Cheers,
JC
The SD sheet I have saved is for BM Advance Satin and reads 3.6 mils wet film.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 01:57 PM »
Hi Bill,

I reviewed a video that Tom sent me spraying advance and he uses 1.5mil needle, a Q4 and the 3M PPS setup for his T70 Gravity gun. I have not tried the PPS setup as I have spent way to much money on trying to resolve the problems. No matter how misty the paint output is, it comes out lumpy. Tried every needle size, reduced fan and paint flow even a pressure pot setup and still not having any success.
Using your quote, " MOST CONFUSED "
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 02:57 PM »
Hi Bill,

I reviewed a video that Tom sent me spraying advance and he uses 1.5mil needle, a Q4 and the 3M PPS setup for his T70 Gravity gun. I have not tried the PPS setup as I have spent way to much money on trying to resolve the problems. No matter how misty the paint output is, it comes out lumpy. Tried every needle size, reduced fan and paint flow even a pressure pot setup and still not having any success.
Using your quote, " MOST CONFUSED "
Cheers,
JC
Hey, hey! "Most Confused" is copyrighted.  [wink]

I just found that video but Tom doesn't mention or check the film thickness but 3.6 mils is what the sheet states.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2017, 05:29 PM »
Getting desperate and thinking outside the box.
As this paint needs to be applied thick, somewhere around 3.5 - 4.0 wet mils, and I need to get enough air to atomize the paint from my Q5, I decided to do something unconventional. I thinned the paint by 10% ( not unconventional ) with distilled water and used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap. Layed it on thick and now waiting for some levelling to happen. Should know sometime late tonight.
Fingers crossed.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2017, 06:11 PM »
Getting desperate and thinking outside the box.
As this paint needs to be applied thick, somewhere around 3.5 - 4.0 wet mils, and I need to get enough air to atomize the paint from my Q5, I decided to do something unconventional. I thinned the paint by 10% ( not unconventional ) with distilled water and used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap. Layed it on thick and now waiting for some levelling to happen. Should know sometime late tonight.
Fingers crossed.

JC

That didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

HELP

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2017, 07:34 PM »
That didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

HELP
Might have to wait for Tom to reply but just a thought.  Seems like the one difference is you have a Q5 and Tom has a Q4.  The Q5 is a bit higher pressure although it sounds like you might need a higher tip pressure to me but I'm no expert!  Since you have a Q5, doesn't it have the variable output or is that another model?  You could drop that a bit.

You have a pressure pot but its max is 10psi, correct?  If it were me(crazy, recently replaced brake lines on a car and tested every connection for leaks at 1,000psi with nitrogen), I'd take it outside run an air line to it at 25-30psi, cover it with a trash can and see if it goes boom.  If it holds try the PP if possible at over 10psi.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2017, 12:19 AM »
Getting desperate and thinking outside the box.
As this paint needs to be applied thick, somewhere around 3.5 - 4.0 wet mils, and I need to get enough air to atomize the paint from my Q5, I decided to do something unconventional. I thinned the paint by 10% ( not unconventional ) with distilled water and used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap. Layed it on thick and now waiting for some levelling to happen. Should know sometime late tonight.
Fingers crossed.

JC

That didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

HELP

How did it look when it went on?

What is wrong that you say it did not work?

Wife and I are in Denver visiting the granddaughters. I'll respond as time allows.

Tom

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3409
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2017, 12:55 PM »
... used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap.

I have a pps cup and attachment you can borrow.
Tim

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2017, 01:35 PM »
I have a pps cup and attachment you can borrow.
Tim
How could that help?  The only thing possible with that is to pressurize the cup before it enters the gun but I'm unsure if does make any change which I do myself on my Gxpc.

It could be possible to pressurize a PPS cup or any cup as a matter of fact with an external source(compressor) with the proper fittings.  The people at 3M said that the check valve on a HO PPS cup opens at 15psi so in theory, one could go that high without becoming the color of the day! [eek]
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 04:03 PM »
I had a dream last night and now I have a theory. Got myself a T75 pressurized gravity gun.
Here we go with more testing.
Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 05:36 PM »
I had a dream last night and now I have a theory. Got myself a T75 pressurized gravity gun.
Here we go with more testing.
Cheers,
JC

Well my theory didn't work.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2017, 12:31 PM »
Well maybe I should have spent my money on green instead of Blue.

I'm almost convinced that spraying BM Advance, 10% thinned with water, Q5, T70 bottom feed gun, different sized needles is not possible.
I have tried, I believe, every combination of air pressure, volume delivery and needle size possible.
I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. This paint is impossible to spray with HVLP.
If you want to take on the challenge, you must use no pressure pots or PPS system. Pure HVLP turbine and gun and not thin more then 10% with water, as the TDS states. No Floetrol as it is not compatible with Advance as it is designed for Acrylic/latex paint and Advance contains no Acrylic.

I may have a Q5, turbine only, for sale soon. Stay tuned.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2017, 01:33 PM »
Well maybe I should have spent my money on green instead of Blue.

I'm almost convinced that spraying BM Advance, 10% thinned with water, Q5, T70 bottom feed gun, different sized needles is not possible.
I have tried, I believe, every combination of air pressure, volume delivery and needle size possible.
I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. This paint is impossible to spray with HVLP.
If you want to take on the challenge, you must use no pressure pots or PPS system. Pure HVLP turbine and gun and not thin more then 10% with water, as the TDS states. No Floetrol as it is not compatible with Advance as it is designed for Acrylic/latex paint and Advance contains no Acrylic.

I may have a Q5, turbine only, for sale soon. Stay tuned.
Cheers,
JC
A side from the Q5, Tom sprayed it, didn't mention any problems and he never edits anything out.

Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2017, 01:40 PM »
Bill,

You'll notice that Tom uses the PPS system and that he has altered is air supply to the pressurized pot. He has tapped his hose to get full pressure to the pot. Even if he reduces the air to the cap, he still maintains full turbine pressure to the pot. I've tried something similar by use a pressure pot on the gun pressurized by a JC10 compressor and using all of the air from the turbine to the cap.

JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2017, 01:58 PM »
Bill,

You'll notice that Tom uses the PPS system and that he has altered is air supply to the pressurized pot. He has tapped his hose to get full pressure to the pot. Even if he reduces the air to the cap, he still maintains full turbine pressure to the pot. I've tried something similar by use a pressure pot on the gun pressurized by a JC10 compressor and using all of the air from the turbine to the cap.

JC
Yeah but Tom has stated in the past that he never reduces air to the cap.  I have the same setup to use on either of my Gxpc guns but I just use it to turn off the air to the gun while feeding a PPS cup to near collapsed and then open it.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 02:02 PM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2017, 03:37 PM »
So after carefully looking at the way Tom sprays Advance I can see the following
1) He's using a Q4 which produces 7.5 psi. I have a Q5 that I can dial down to a Q4. So I will do that.
2) The way his check valve is connected to the PPS cup, would lead me to believe that he is getting approx 7 psi to the cup. I will do the same using a compressor to deliver 7psi to my pot.

Now in the video he is using a 1.5mm needle on a T70 gun. I will do the same. Also, he says he is not thinning this. I will do the same.

Off to spray.

JC

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 704
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2017, 04:36 PM »
What temperature/humidity are you spraying the product and the same for Tom. How do you mix your paint and how does Tom mix his paint. Basically what viscosity are you both spraying the product, without a Ford/Zahn type cup flow measurement especially with a problematic product like BM Advance you might as well try to compare an apple to watermelon.

I just read the tech spec sheet for Advanced and found something interesting, in the application section the only method listed is Airless with a pressure setting 1500 to 2500 psi. In my limited experience most stuff I spray is in the 300 to 700 psi range with my units max pressure being 1400 psi. Does this suggest anything?

John
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 04:49 PM by kcufstoidi »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 04:47 PM »
So after carefully looking at the way Tom sprays Advance I can see the following
1) He's using a Q4 which produces 7.5 psi. I have a Q5 that I can dial down to a Q4. So I will do that.
2) The way his check valve is connected to the PPS cup, would lead me to believe that he is getting approx 7 psi to the cup. I will do the same using a compressor to deliver 7psi to my pot.

Now in the video he is using a 1.5mm needle on a T70 gun. I will do the same. Also, he says he is not thinning this. I will do the same.

Off to spray.

JC
Well that didn't work.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 04:58 PM »
I just got this from Benjamin Moore. Advance Spray Recommendations.

Now I got something else to try.

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2017, 07:27 PM »
Well that didn't work.
What do you mean by "That didn't work"?
Bill
Most Confused!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Swordstriper

  • Posts: 2
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2017, 09:58 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2017, 12:24 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!
Thanks for the advice. Went out and gout the re-build kit for my T70 and replaced all of the seals.
Now according to BM, they recommend a 1.3mil needle and cap and 7.5 psi and 5-10% reduction. I will try this and see if it works.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2017, 12:56 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!
Thanks for the advice. Went out and gout the re-build kit for my T70 and replaced all of the seals.
Now according to BM, they recommend a 1.3mil needle and cap and 7.5 psi and 5-10% reduction. I will try this and see if it works.
Cheers,
JC
This "may" apply to your T70 as well but might be meaningless overall!   I was fiddling with one of my Fuji Gxpc guns connected through a 3M mini-regulator to a 5 gallon tank.  That being quiet unlike the turbine, I heard air leaking from the handle grip.  There were a total of three leaks.  The aluminum nipple goes into a tapped hole that has a shoulder which didn't allow it to seal.  The quick disconnect fitting also holds the handle on but when the handle was tight the pipe thread wasn't.  Just forward of where the nipple is threaded hole into the gun body with a plug that has a straight thread which is loose by its nature.  I used Teflon tape on all three and did the same on my other Gxpc.  Would these leaks cause any issues?  Don't know but it's a heck of way to design a tool that uses air with leaks like this.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 02:20 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!
Thanks for the advice. Went out and gout the re-build kit for my T70 and replaced all of the seals.
Now according to BM, they recommend a 1.3mil needle and cap and 7.5 psi and 5-10% reduction. I will try this and see if it works.
Cheers,
JC
This "may" apply to your T70 as well but might be meaningless overall!   I was fiddling with one of my Fuji Gxpc guns connected through a 3M mini-regulator to a 5 gallon tank.  That being quiet unlike the turbine, I heard air leaking from the handle grip.  There were a total of three leaks.  The aluminum nipple goes into a tapped hole that has a shoulder which didn't allow it to seal.  The quick disconnect fitting also holds the handle on but when the handle was tight the pipe thread wasn't.  Just forward of where the nipple is threaded hole into the gun body with a plug that has a straight thread which is loose by its nature.  I used Teflon tape on all three and did the same on my other Gxpc.  Would these leaks cause any issues?  Don't know but it's a heck of way to design a tool that uses air with leaks like this.

Interesting. Let me check my gun.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 02:56 PM »
Okay. Test done. Another failure.

Talk to BM in that states and they also recommend, 7.5psi with a 1.3mm needle when using HVLP, as per the pdf I posted.
They told me that they were able to spray between 3.5-4.5 wet mils in a single pass. They do not recommend doing a second pass to obtain they required thickness.
Now, how the heck do they get a 4-5 inch fan and thick enough for one pass without splatter? I call BS on that. With a Q4 or Q5 there is no problem pushing the paint through the gun, the problem is that the 1.3 cap set does not provide enough air to atomize the paint. So what to do.

Cheers,
JC


Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 03:07 PM »
Okay. Test done. Another failure.

Talk to BM in that states and they also recommend, 7.5psi with a 1.3mm needle when using HVLP, as per the pdf I posted.
They told me that they were able to spray between 3.5-4.5 wet mils in a single pass. They do not recommend doing a second pass to obtain they required thickness.
Now, how the heck do they get a 4-5 inch fan and thick enough for one pass without splatter? I call BS on that. With a Q4 or Q5 there is no problem pushing the paint through the gun, the problem is that the 1.3 cap set does not provide enough air to atomize the paint. So what to do.

Cheers,
JC
Should have asked them as to how one checks for that 7.5psi on a HVLP system?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 03:24 PM »
The Q5 has a variable speed knob. I asked Fuji to show me where 7.5 would be on the scale. So I set it there and actually increased the pressure to full pressure and it still comes out lumpy. I just watched a video on the web, and this person sprays same paint, Q4, gravity feed gun,looks like the 9600-G-XPC gun, 1.5mil and thinned 10%. It works for him.
Maybe its my gun.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 04:15 PM »
Checked my gun, hose connectors, no leaks.


Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2017, 05:58 PM »
I AM A HAPPY CAMPER
Testing is done. Was able to produce a flawless spray. Now it's only being drying for an hour but it looks perfect. So what did I do.

I decided to bring out my Earlex Pro 8 gun out of retirement and give it a try. I used a 1.3mil needle, no thinning and full power on the Q5. I was able to get the paint to spray on thick and not lumpy like my T70 with same needle size. Now the only difference is that the Earlex uses the same air cap for 1.3mil needle and 2.0mil needle and has 2 extra holes for atomization. As I like the feel of the T70 gun better, tomorrow morning I will try the 2mil air cap and the 1.3 mil needle in my T70 and see what happens. If that doesn't work I will get Fuji to drill two small additional holes in their 1.3mil air cap.

Everyone wants a photo. I will see what it looks like after a few hours and if it looks nice I will post a photo.

Here is a link to the Earlex Pro 8 Gun. You can see the additional holes on the 1.3mm to 2.0mm air cap.

Earlex Pro 8 Gun
Cheers,
P.S. I should write a book on my experiences. Could save many of us a lot of time.

JC
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 06:03 PM by JCLP »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2017, 06:25 PM »
I AM A HAPPY CAMPER
Testing is done. Was able to produce a flawless spray. Now it's only being drying for an hour but it looks perfect. So what did I do.

I decided to bring out my Earlex Pro 8 gun out of retirement and give it a try. I used a 1.3mil needle, no thinning and full power on the Q5. I was able to get the paint to spray on thick and not lumpy like my T70 with same needle size. Now the only difference is that the Earlex uses the same air cap for 1.3mil needle and 2.0mil needle and has 2 extra holes for atomization. As I like the feel of the T70 gun better, tomorrow morning I will try the 2mil air cap and the 1.3 mil needle in my T70 and see what happens. If that doesn't work I will get Fuji to drill two small additional holes in their 1.3mil air cap.

Everyone wants a photo. I will see what it looks like after a few hours and if it looks nice I will post a photo.

Here is a link to the Earlex Pro 8 Gun. You can see the additional holes on the 1.3mm to 2.0mm air cap.

Earlex Pro 8 Gun
Cheers,
P.S. I should write a book on my experiences. Could save many of us a lot of time.

JC
The Gxpc has 1.4mm but not a 1.3mm.  The 1.4mm does have three holes on each side.  The 1mm/0.8mm both have six more extra holes, three above the needle/nozzle opening and three below it.  I didn't know this till a few months ago that as you decrease the needle/nozzle/cap set size the narrower the fan adjustment range.  That's why Tom uses a bigger air cap at times.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2017, 06:47 PM »
Hi Bill,
Your right on the extra air holes. It's interesting that on the T7* series guns that they have less holes. Benjamin Moore used the Capspray MaxumII gun, and they too have extra holes. That could be the difference. I will get Fuji to drill me a couple of holes, as I don't have a bit that small or maybe see if the GXPC air cap fits the T70.
Till tomorrow.

JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2017, 07:24 PM »
Hi Bill,
Your right on the extra air holes. It's interesting that on the T7* series guns that they have less holes. Benjamin Moore used the Capspray MaxumII gun, and they too have extra holes. That could be the difference. I will get Fuji to drill me a couple of holes, as I don't have a bit that small or maybe see if the GXPC air cap fits the T70.
Till tomorrow.

JC
Fuji will do that for you?  Some of those holes are at an angle so that might be tricky to do on your own.

What's still confusing is that Tom uses a T-70 but with a Q4!

I'm tempted to pick some BM Advance and try it myself.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2017, 10:53 PM »
or maybe see if the GXPC air cap fits the T70.
Till tomorrow.

JC

It does not.

Good to see you're making headway.

Tom

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2017, 10:44 AM »
Thank Tom.
Just found a leak in my hose. Going to get a new one.
Stay tune.

JC

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2017, 02:06 PM »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2017, 03:11 PM »
This hose.

https://www.amazon.com/25-Hose-HVLP-Turbine-Sprayer/dp/B00GAFE6LI

Tom
Thanks Tom. Got a new hose from Fuji.
So Fuji and I think it is the iteranl workings of the gun that could be corrected. So we are going exchange my gun for a new one. If that doesn't solve the it, the problem could be located down the arm, across the shoulder, above the neck and somewhere between the ears.

Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2017, 03:33 PM »
Thanks Tom. Got a new hose from Fuji.
So Fuji and I think it is the iteranl workings of the gun that could be corrected. So we are going exchange my gun for a new one. If that doesn't solve the it, the problem could be located down the arm, across the shoulder, above the neck and somewhere between the ears.

Cheers,
JC
OMG!  How close do you live to Fuji??  They sent me a whole new Gxpc when the air fitting that feeds the cup got tight and they said to force it out which ripped the threads with it.  I tapped the hole to a bigger size, made a new fitting out of aluminum with an added "O'ring to seal better and that's why I have two working Gxpc's now.  [big grin]
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2017, 03:51 PM »
Thanks Tom. Got a new hose from Fuji.
So Fuji and I think it is the iteranl workings of the gun that could be corrected. So we are going exchange my gun for a new one. If that doesn't solve the it, the problem could be located down the arm, across the shoulder, above the neck and somewhere between the ears.

Cheers,
JC
OMG!  How close do you live to Fuji??  They sent me a whole new Gxpc when the air fitting that feeds the cup got tight and they said to force it out which ripped the threads with it.  I tapped the hole to a bigger size, made a new fitting out of aluminum with an added "O'ring to seal better and that's why I have two working Gxpc's now.  [big grin]

I live 15-20 minutes away. Will be there 7:30am tomorrow morning to make the exchange and pick up some new stuff to try out.

Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2017, 06:16 PM »
More info.

I just got off the phone with BM and the recommendations for spraying Advance that they provide me, that I posted earlier, is based on Advance Base 1X white, not tinted. When you go to a darker colour, base 2x in my case and colour is called Escarpment, those specs do not apply as the paint does get much thicker the darker you tint it. Now my friend Tim, just sprayed white advance using the specs provide by BM and it worked. He did say it wasn't his favourite, but it looks fine. I called BM after talking to Tim to pick their brains a little further.

Tomorrow I will try thinning by 10% and using a larger needle, probably start at 1.8 and then climb to 2.0 with full power from Q5, after I get my new gun of course.
Cheers,
JC


Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3409
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2017, 10:05 PM »
I sprayed this mdf panel with white BM advance today using the T70 siphon feed and a 1.3 needle cap set. The mdf panel was primed 2 x with SW wall and wood sanded with 320 and 400 and the Advance was thinned 10% with distilled water
Tim
[ Specified attachment is not available ]
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 10:08 PM by Tim Raleigh »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2017, 04:09 PM »
So, what did I learn these last few weeks? How to spray Advance.

Also learned that many people that I have talked to have told me that they have no problem in spraying BM Advance with a 4 or 5 stage HVLP turbine but they all forget one very important detail, what colour are they spraying. The colour of the paint plays a very important role in determining what needle air cap set you will use and how much air you use for atomization.

For example, BM recommends for HVLP, 7.5psi, 1.3mil needle and 4-5 wet mils. This works well for Base 1 Advance colour white. In other words, right off the shelf. I was able to get good results following their recommendations with Base 1 White Advance. I still thin 10% though.
Now if you tint your paint to a medium grey, colour cc-518 Escarpment for instance, it requires Base 2 and a lot of colour/solids are added to the paint making it much thicker with a higher percentage of solids. So using the same specs you used for Base 1 White will not work with the medium grey colour. I would assume this is the same for any paint you tint.

So for Advance here is what I concluded.

Base 1, White. 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 1.3 mil and 10% thinning ( optional )

Base 2, CC-518 Escarpement, 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 2.0 mil needle and 10% thinning

So in the future, I think it would be very helpful that when somebody states on the fog that they have no problem spraying a particular  type/brand of paint, that they should provide everyone with more information, such as;
- Brand and Type of paint
- Colour and Base that was used
- size of needle and air cap set
- What stage of turbine ( hvlp in this case)
- what brand and type of gun they are using. This makes a big difference as every manufacture has their own way of delivering the air to the tip
- % thinned and with what
etc
I think this would go a long way in helping people that are new to spraying, ( Like me ).

Cheers,
JC
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 04:25 PM by JCLP »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2017, 04:27 PM »
I sprayed this mdf panel with white BM advance today using the T70 siphon feed and a 1.3 needle cap set. The mdf panel was primed 2 x with SW wall and wood sanded with 320 and 400 and the Advance was thinned 10% with distilled water
Tim
(Attachment Link)
Everything looks smooth when you're out of focus.  ;)

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2017, 04:51 PM »
So, what did I learn these last few weeks? How to spray Advance.

Also learned that many people that I have talked to have told me that they have no problem in spraying BM Advance with a 4 or 5 stage HVLP turbine but they all forget one very important detail, what colour are they spraying. The colour of the paint plays a very important role in determining what needle air cap set you will use and how much air you use for atomization.

For example, BM recommends for HVLP, 7.5psi, 1.3mil needle and 4-5 wet mils. This works well for Base 1 Advance colour white. In other words, right off the shelf. I was able to get good results following their recommendations with Base 1 White Advance. I still thin 10% though.
Now if you tint your paint to a medium grey, colour cc-518 Escarpment for instance, it requires Base 2 and a lot of colour/solids are added to the paint making it much thicker with a higher percentage of solids. So using the same specs you used for Base 1 White will not work with the medium grey colour. I would assume this is the same for any paint you tint.

So for Advance here is what I concluded.

Base 1, White. 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 1.3 mil and 10% thinning ( optional )

Base 2, CC-518 Escarpement, 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 2.0 mil needle and 10% thinning

So in the future, I think it would be very helpful that when somebody states on the fog that they have no problem spraying a particular  type/brand of paint, that they should provide everyone with more information, such as;
- Brand and Type of paint
- Colour and Base that was used
- size of needle and air cap set
- What stage of turbine ( hvlp in this case)
- what brand and type of gun they are using. This makes a big difference as every manufacture has their own way of delivering the air to the tip
- % thinned and with what
etc
I think this would go a long way in helping people that are new to spraying, ( Like me ).

Cheers,
JC

I believe the Advance in my video(s) is what we discussed you were having an issue with. In the videos I also stated what turbine, air cap set, thinning, etc.....

Any manufacture recommendation(s) are only a base line at best. Unless I'm asked about a specific I don't bother looking at the manufactures specs. Odds of my shop being exactly the same as the manufactures are not good. Environment is as important as the product and equipment.

Spraying is not just the mechanics of application, it's the nuances how the environment, material and equipment all work together.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2017, 06:44 PM »
JCLP:

So in the end(I lost track) there was nothing wrong with your T-70 or system that affected the end results?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2017, 10:22 PM »
JCLP:

So in the end(I lost track) there was nothing wrong with your T-70 or system that affected the end results?
Nope. Nothing was wrong with the equipment. Got a new hose though and some other stuff from Fuji.

Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2017, 08:37 AM »
If it's not one thing, it's another. Woke up this morning to find this on my panel. This is the Grey Advance that I have been spraying.
Any help/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

BM Advance, cc-518 colour, base 2, thinned 10%
2.0 needle and cap
Fuji T70 gun, Q5

Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2017, 08:49 AM »
If it's not one thing, it's another. Woke up this morning to find this on my panel. This is the Grey Advance that I have been spraying.
Any help/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

BM Advance, cc-518 colour, base 2, thinned 10%
2.0 needle and cap
Fuji T70 gun, Q5

Cheers,
JC
Fisheye Defects

Fisheye at SW
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 08:52 AM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2017, 09:03 AM »
Spray a couple of very dry coats, don't sand between coats. Sand the top coat, apply the final coat wet.

Was this panel sprayed with the new hose? Contaminant inside hose? No citrus fruits in the shop.

Tom

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2017, 09:04 AM »
If it's not one thing, it's another. Woke up this morning to find this on my panel. This is the Grey Advance that I have been spraying.
Any help/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

BM Advance, cc-518 colour, base 2, thinned 10%
2.0 needle and cap
Fuji T70 gun, Q5

Cheers,
JC
Fisheye Defects

Fisheye at SW

Thanks Bill. Been doing a lot of research and reading this morning. Could be solvent popping or fish eyes.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2017, 03:42 PM »
Well the adventure continued this morning with no success. Following what I was able to do a few days ago, the HVLP spray gods have decided to mess me up again. As it is hard to beat a higher power, I decided to put HVLP aside and try airless. So I took out my Graco TrueCoat Pro II handheld sprayer and give a try. Using a 311 tip and about 1200psi I sprayed a couple panels and they looked great, just like a wet lake, when they were wet but after a few hours of drying all of a sudden lumps, pin holes appeared. I have no idea what I did wrong.

So after a few hours of contemplating I have decided to hang up the sprayers and farm the work out to someone else. I can't remember the last time, if any, I gave up but I have to listen to the sprayer gods that I am not meant to spray and no matter I try they will not let me succeed.

Thanks everyone for their assistant over the last year or so.

Cheers,
JC

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Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2017, 03:52 PM »
Well the adventure continued this morning with no success. Following what I was able to do a few days ago, the HVLP spray gods have decided to mess me up again. As it is hard to beat a higher power, I decided to put HVLP aside and try airless. So I took out my Graco TrueCoat Pro II handheld sprayer and give a try. Using a 311 tip and about 1200psi I sprayed a couple panels and they looked great, just like a wet lake, when they were wet but after a few hours of drying all of a sudden lumps, pin holes appeared. I have no idea what I did wrong.

So after a few hours of contemplating I have decided to hang up the sprayers and farm the work out to someone else. I can't remember the last time, if any, I gave up but I have to listen to the sprayer gods that I am not meant to spray and no matter I try they will not let me succeed.

Thanks everyone for their assistant over the last year or so.

Cheers,
JC
So sad!  :'(
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2017, 04:51 PM »
Don't give up. Take a break and ease back into it.

Tom

Offline Swordstriper

  • Posts: 2
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2017, 11:56 PM »
Have you considered changing paints. Advance is a very interesting paint to spray as are most waterborne alkyds. I have produced beautiful finishes with them and then had similar troubles as you are having. Just for the fun of it buy a quart of the Advance primer, thin it to 25 seconds with the viscosity cup that Fuji provides. Spray it on at 3-4 mils wet and let it dry the recommended 6-8 at 25 degrees Celsius or 72 degrees Fahrenheit which ever you prefer. Then thin your Advance topcoat with water to the same 25 seconds and see what happens. Try to set your gun to apply 3-4 mild wet keeping the nozzle 3-4 inches from the surface being careful to maintain a 50% overlap. You will move faster and see what happens.

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 22
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #64 on: January 19, 2017, 01:09 AM »
I find when I'm in a simialr situation the best thing to do is to take a break and do something completely different and easy for awhile.  After a few days, weeks, or months go back and try again when you don't have any pressing deadlines.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #65 on: February 01, 2017, 11:29 AM »
Well, after a lot of reading and research on straining Waterborne paint I found this little bit of info.

"The issue with waterborne chemistry and micron size pertains to how water resins cure. They dry by coalescing together to form a film, unlike solvent resins which dry by evaporation of the solvent into the air. A key difference is that a clotted hunk of solvent resin will re-dissolve in the presence of more solvent. A dried particle of waterborne resin that has clotted into a hunk won’t re-dissolve. As a result, several paint brands call for the smallest hole size (125 microns) to ensure that the final paint finish is perfectly smooth."

I found that when I was spraying BM Advance that I was getting some fine coffee grain bits that had not dissolved on the finished surface. So I called Gerson, who make paint strainers, and explained to them my problem and they informed me that they recommend 125 or 150 micron strainers for Waterborne. Now I was a little bit skepticle about this so I asked them if it was the same for house paint like BM Advance and SW ProClassic and they yes.

They sent me some samples for me to try.
So I thinned Advance, tinted Cloud White, with 10% water, used a 1.3mm needle and cap, my Q5 and strained it with a 125micron strainer, and guess what, no dried bits. I use to see these right away as soon as the paint touched the surface. Now the real test will be in a couple of hours when the paint levels and dries a bit.
Stayed tuned.

JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #66 on: February 01, 2017, 12:38 PM »
Funny, I asked Roger Phelps of HVLPSALES what the micron size of the strainers he sells and he couldn't even tell me!  Many places just state fine or coarse.  I did get some elsewhere, IIRC, there were three different options.  I'd have to look what I got, seems like it was at least two flavors.

Going to the 3M PPS system could solve this as well, they have 200 micron and 125 micron strainer lids.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #67 on: February 01, 2017, 12:57 PM »
Funny, I asked Roger Phelps of HVLPSALES what the micron size of the strainers he sells and he couldn't even tell me!  Many places just state fine or coarse.  I did get some elsewhere, IIRC, there were three different options.  I'd have to look what I got, seems like it was at least two flavors.

Going to the 3M PPS system could solve this as well, they have 200 micron and 125 micron strainer lids.

I haven't yet decided if I will go to the PPS system or not. When gerson offered to send me a few samples of each strainer, I was expecting and envelope in the mail. Instead, they sent me 200 of the 125micron and 200 of the 150micron and 2 dispensing units, one for each filter size. I have enough filters to last me a life time.

I wasn't expecting that from them at all.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #68 on: February 01, 2017, 02:08 PM »
I haven't yet decided if I will go to the PPS system or not. When gerson offered to send me a few samples of each strainer, I was expecting and envelope in the mail. Instead, they sent me 200 of the 125micron and 200 of the 150micron and 2 dispensing units, one for each filter size. I have enough filters to last me a life time.

I wasn't expecting that from them at all.
Cheers,
JC

At Gerson they list a strainer as 1000 micron(for latex paint) but no others listed like this!  Did they mention this to you?

Yeah, you got a deal there.
Bill
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Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2017, 03:28 PM »
I saw that. Latex and Waterborne are two different animals.

Cheers,


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2017, 04:09 PM »
Could be why I do not experience the problems you did. I've used the PPS system since day one. It's got to the point where I'll grab either lid. I used to be real selective, didn't notice a difference.

I also prestrain my finishes, I don't strain stain.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #71 on: February 01, 2017, 04:31 PM »
I saw that. Latex and Waterborne are two different animals.

Cheers,
Latex is water based but try to find anything that states "for sure" that there is a difference between water based and waterborne.  Might be play on words or like a paint and primer in one which from what I've read is impossible.
Bill
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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #72 on: February 01, 2017, 04:39 PM »
Water based reconstitutes when water is applied, think finger paints, waterbournes will not reconstitute when water is applied. (This is how I look at them)

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #73 on: February 01, 2017, 04:46 PM »
Water based reconstitutes when water is applied, think finger paints, waterbournes will not reconstitute when water is applied. (This is how I look at them)

Tom
Don't really know but here's one of several that have stated the same thing.
Bill
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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #74 on: February 01, 2017, 05:48 PM »
Water based reconstitutes when water is applied, think finger paints, waterbournes will not reconstitute when water is applied. (This is how I look at them)

Tom
Don't really know but here's one of several that have stated the same thing.

The meanings of the words help clear this up (in my opinion)

Waterbased-water is the main ingredient

Waterbourne-transmitted in water

The [waterbourne] finishes we use, the ingredients that make up the product are transmitted in water, once the water evaporates the product cannot be reconstituted with water.

Tom

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #75 on: February 01, 2017, 05:55 PM »
Water based reconstitutes when water is applied, think finger paints, waterbournes will not reconstitute when water is applied. (This is how I look at them)

Tom
Don't really know but here's one of several that have stated the same thing.

The meanings of the words help clear this up (in my opinion)

Waterbased-water is the main ingredient

Waterbourne-transmitted in water

The [waterbourne] finishes we use, the ingredients that make up the product are transmitted in water, once the water evaporates the product cannot be reconstituted with water.

Tom
Thanks Tom.

Still having issues spraying Advance. Tim offered me his PPS system to try out. That is the only thing different, other then your experience, between us. This is so frustrating.

JC

Offline Scott Burt

  • Posts: 1954
  • painter/writer/educator
    • Prep to Finish
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #76 on: February 01, 2017, 06:06 PM »
Hang in there. Once you have served your penance to the spray gods for whatever you did wrong in the past, things will become a lot more fun!

We all go through this stuff.

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #77 on: February 01, 2017, 07:30 PM »
The meanings of the words help clear this up (in my opinion)

Waterbased-water is the main ingredient

Waterbourne-transmitted in water

The [waterbourne] finishes we use, the ingredients that make up the product are transmitted in water, once the water evaporates the product cannot be reconstituted with water.

Tom

water-base paint - paint in which water is used as the vehicle

That sounds the same to me.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #78 on: February 01, 2017, 09:10 PM »
The water based paints are waterborne, sometimes nomenclature dictates we define things with well held colloquialisms.

Tom

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #79 on: February 02, 2017, 04:22 PM »
So I setup a 2 quart pressure pot being pressured with my Rolair JC10 to get the paint to the tip and I'm using all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. Using a 1.3mil needle and cap. I will thin paint by 10% to prolonge open time.

We'll see what happens. Stay tuned.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #80 on: February 03, 2017, 04:05 PM »
So I found out that if you hook up the Fuji pressure pot to a Q5 the way they recommend, it does not pressurize the cup enough to push the paint, thick waterborne, up the hose consistently. I found that the paint did not come out of the gun smoothly. It was intermittent.
Therefore I put on my McGiver hat and configured it so I can pressurize the pot with my Rolair JC10 compressor, to a maximum of 15psi, as my guage only goes that high, and direct all of the air from the Q5 directly to my gun. It's not a pretty setup, but it will prove the concept. Fuji was kind enough to lend me their pressure pot so I could do some testing. The guage I had kicking around the shop.

Green hose is from the compressor to the pot. Grey hose is from the Q5 turbine. Blue hose is a 6' whip hose and the 6' clear hose is the fluid tube. One good thing about the clear hose is that it is easy to see when it is clean.
Cheers,
JC
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 04:17 PM by JCLP »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #81 on: February 03, 2017, 07:31 PM »
So I found out that if you hook up the Fuji pressure pot to a Q5 the way they recommend, it does not pressurize the cup enough to push the paint, thick waterborne, up the hose consistently. I found that the paint did not come out of the gun smoothly. It was intermittent.
Therefore I put on my McGiver hat and configured it so I can pressurize the pot with my Rolair JC10 compressor, to a maximum of 15psi, as my guage only goes that high, and direct all of the air from the Q5 directly to my gun. It's not a pretty setup, but it will prove the concept. Fuji was kind enough to lend me their pressure pot so I could do some testing. The guage I had kicking around the shop.

Green hose is from the compressor to the pot. Grey hose is from the Q5 turbine. Blue hose is a 6' whip hose and the 6' clear hose is the fluid tube. One good thing about the clear hose is that it is easy to see when it is clean.
Cheers,
JC
I have that same Fuji branded PP which I've never used yet but my setup is a bit different.  I have the outlet that you have going to your gun capped with a simple plastic garden hose cap.  On the other end I have a 3M mini-regulator fed by a compressor and the gun is fed directly from the turbine.

The product output from PP is just the same as you have of course but I find the plastic hose way too stiff for my liking.  As I states, I've never used it yet other than with water.  I do wonder that being semi-clear plastic and with water there are many bubbles that cling to the inside of that hose, does it do the same with anything other than water??

An added function of the 3M mini-regulator feed the PP or even your gun is that you'll hear any air leak that you won't hear with a turbine near by.  The PP did leak around the cap seal, 3M PPS cup leaked and both my Gxpc had internal leaks but most were easy fixes except the PP itself which was a PITA!  The PP's cup threads were too tight to allow it to self align against the cap seal, even a new seal didn't help.  It's not perfect but I did get it to hold pressure fairly well but it was a pain.
Bill
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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4754
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #82 on: February 03, 2017, 07:54 PM »
So I found out that if you hook up the Fuji pressure pot to a Q5 the way they recommend, it does not pressurize the cup enough to push the paint, thick waterborne, up the hose consistently. I found that the paint did not come out of the gun smoothly. It was intermittent.
Therefore I put on my McGiver hat and configured it so I can pressurize the pot with my Rolair JC10 compressor, to a maximum of 15psi, as my guage only goes that high, and direct all of the air from the Q5 directly to my gun. It's not a pretty setup, but it will prove the concept. Fuji was kind enough to lend me their pressure pot so I could do some testing. The guage I had kicking around the shop.

Green hose is from the compressor to the pot. Grey hose is from the Q5 turbine. Blue hose is a 6' whip hose and the 6' clear hose is the fluid tube. One good thing about the clear hose is that it is easy to see when it is clean.
Cheers,
JC

but did you spray anything yet [unsure]

Connect the turbine hose directly to the gun, you don't need it going to the pot. Cap the pot if necessary.

Looks like a 1/4" fluid hose, with the pot sitting on a cold floor you'll probably need closer to 20 psi to move the fluid properly. (or put the pot in a bucket of hot water)

Tom
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 07:57 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #83 on: February 04, 2017, 09:28 AM »
Thanks Tom,

I will be spraying shortly. Thanks for the tip about the floor. Didn't even think of that.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #84 on: February 04, 2017, 11:17 AM »
I think I'm in love.
Well I just tried it with BM Select Regal tinted Escarpement Grey, conditiond by 10% with BM Extender (great product). Set the pressure to 12-14psi and it fed the paint with no issues. 1.3mil needle had enough air, all from the Q5, to atomize the paint.
Two panels drying, well see in a few hours whether I'm still  in love or if it was just lust.

Now I'm off to buy some walnut and maple.
Cheers,
JC
« Last Edit: February 04, 2017, 02:22 PM by JCLP »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #85 on: February 04, 2017, 11:32 AM »
I think I'm in love.
Well I just tried it with BM Select Regal tinted Escarpement Grey, thinned 10% with BM Extender (great product). Set the pressure to 12-14psi and it fed the paint with no issues. 1.3mil needle had enough air, all from the Q5, to atomize the paint.
Two panels drying, well see in a few hours whether I'm still  in love or if it was just lust.

Now I'm off to buy some walnut and maple.
Cheers,
JC
It must be love as you've been through hexx! ;D
Bill
Most Confused!