Author Topic: I got Blue, not Green  (Read 10006 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
I got Blue, not Green
« on: December 29, 2016, 02:42 PM »
Hi Everyone. I trust everyone had a great Christmas and that you were spoiled by Santa.
I didn't get any Festool green for Christmas but got some Blue. Got myself a Fuji Q5 at a great price. Now I'll be able to spray BM Advance, I hope.
Cheers.
JC

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline denovo

  • Posts: 20
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 06:23 PM »
What made you decide to go with the Q5?  It sounded like you were seriously considering going the AAA route.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 08:45 PM »
What made you decide to go with the Q5?  It sounded like you were seriously considering going the AAA route.
I purchased the Q5 because the deal was to good to pass up. I'm still looking at getting a AAA system though. I will eventually use my HVLP for small jobs like staining, applying poly on small items and small paint projects.
I still need to do a bit more research and make arrangements to go see a demo of CA Technologies H2O Waterbourne system.
Cheers,
JC

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 20
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2016, 09:01 AM »
I purchased the Q5 because the deal was to good to pass up. I'm still looking at getting a AAA system though. I will eventually use my HVLP for small jobs like staining, applying poly on small items and small paint projects.
I still need to do a bit more research and make arrangements to go see a demo of CA Technologies H2O Waterbourne system.
Cheers,
JC

I would probably do the same thing if I found the Q5 at a good price.  Let me know what you think of the setup when spraying BM Advance

Happy New Year!
- Bryan

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2016, 02:32 PM »
I purchased the Q5 because the deal was to good to pass up. I'm still looking at getting a AAA system though. I will eventually use my HVLP for small jobs like staining, applying poly on small items and small paint projects.
I still need to do a bit more research and make arrangements to go see a demo of CA Technologies H2O Waterbourne system.
Cheers,
JC

I would probably do the same thing if I found the Q5 at a good price.  Let me know what you think of the setup when spraying BM Advance

Happy New Year!
- Bryan

Well I just tried BM Advance tinted grey, which makes it thicker then pure white out of the can, and the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter. Now, a lot of people will say forget Advance and spray Kem Aqua or the equivalent, but I am determine to figure out the proper combination to get a great finish. So the testing continues.

First I tried at 2mm needle, thin 20% with distilled water and my T70 siphon gun. Not a bad finish resulted from this but still not happy.
Second test, I tried a 2.5mm needle, thinned 10% with distilled water and used my Earlex Pro 8 gun and was able to lay a thin wet coat. Great atomization from a $160.00 gun. it looked great when wet. No roughness.

I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 332
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2016, 02:49 PM »
I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC
If you think it's the need for more pressure on the cup or the product itself, why not try a pressure pot so you could put way over 10psi on the product?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2016, 03:28 PM »
I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC
If you think it's the need for more pressure on the cup or the product itself, why not try a pressure pot so you could put way over 10psi on the product?

I do have a quart size pressure pot from CA Technologies but the maximum allowed pressure in the pot is 10psi.Which is not enough for this Advance. I used a small compressor, Rolair JC10, to pressurize the pot to force the paint up the tube and to the gun tip and used all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. I could go with a larger pressure pot but I didn't want to spend $1000 for a pot. Trying to  be economical. The photo is the pressure pot one I have.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 332
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2016, 03:43 PM »

I do have a quart size pressure pot from CA Technologies but the maximum allowed pressure in the pot is 10psi.Which is not enough for this Advance. I used a small compressor, Rolair JC10, to pressurize the pot to force the paint up the tube and to the gun tip and used all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. I could go with a larger pressure pot but I didn't want to spend $1000 for a pot. Trying to  be economical. The photo is the pressure pot one I have.
Cheers,
JC
I have a two quart Fuji branded PP but it looks just like the CA Tech and cast into it's top, "50psi MAX" but it has a threaded lid.  I just read an old review of BM Advance vs SW Pro Classic and it stated don't thin.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 12:15 AM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 20
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2017, 07:26 PM »


Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC

Have you had time to conduct any more testing with the Q5 and BM Advanced?

Offline polarsea1

  • Posts: 286
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2017, 02:26 AM »
I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC
If you think it's the need for more pressure on the cup or the product itself, why not try a pressure pot so you could put way over 10psi on the product?

I do have a quart size pressure pot from CA Technologies but the maximum allowed pressure in the pot is 10psi.Which is not enough for this Advance. I used a small compressor, Rolair JC10, to pressurize the pot to force the paint up the tube and to the gun tip and used all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. I could go with a larger pressure pot but I didn't want to spend $1000 for a pot. Trying to  be economical. The photo is the pressure pot one I have.
Cheers,
JC

My Binks SG2 pot is rated to 50lb. You can find a decent one on ebay for a reasonable price.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 12:48 PM »
This is very frustrating. I don't know why I can't get a smooth coat when sprying Advance. Maybe I'm not spraying it on thick enough. Need to find my wet gauge. It should not be this difficult.
Going to try 1.8mil, no thinning with the Q5. Let see what happens.

Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 332
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 01:34 PM »
This is very frustrating. I don't know why I can't get a smooth coat when sprying Advance. Maybe I'm not spraying it on thick enough. Need to find my wet gauge. It should not be this difficult.
Going to try 1.8mil, no thinning with the Q5. Let see what happens.

Cheers,
JC
The SD sheet I have saved is for BM Advance Satin and reads 3.6 mils wet film.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 01:57 PM »
Hi Bill,

I reviewed a video that Tom sent me spraying advance and he uses 1.5mil needle, a Q4 and the 3M PPS setup for his T70 Gravity gun. I have not tried the PPS setup as I have spent way to much money on trying to resolve the problems. No matter how misty the paint output is, it comes out lumpy. Tried every needle size, reduced fan and paint flow even a pressure pot setup and still not having any success.
Using your quote, " MOST CONFUSED "
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 332
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 02:57 PM »
Hi Bill,

I reviewed a video that Tom sent me spraying advance and he uses 1.5mil needle, a Q4 and the 3M PPS setup for his T70 Gravity gun. I have not tried the PPS setup as I have spent way to much money on trying to resolve the problems. No matter how misty the paint output is, it comes out lumpy. Tried every needle size, reduced fan and paint flow even a pressure pot setup and still not having any success.
Using your quote, " MOST CONFUSED "
Cheers,
JC
Hey, hey! "Most Confused" is copyrighted.  [wink]

I just found that video but Tom doesn't mention or check the film thickness but 3.6 mils is what the sheet states.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2017, 05:29 PM »
Getting desperate and thinking outside the box.
As this paint needs to be applied thick, somewhere around 3.5 - 4.0 wet mils, and I need to get enough air to atomize the paint from my Q5, I decided to do something unconventional. I thinned the paint by 10% ( not unconventional ) with distilled water and used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap. Layed it on thick and now waiting for some levelling to happen. Should know sometime late tonight.
Fingers crossed.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2017, 06:11 PM »
Getting desperate and thinking outside the box.
As this paint needs to be applied thick, somewhere around 3.5 - 4.0 wet mils, and I need to get enough air to atomize the paint from my Q5, I decided to do something unconventional. I thinned the paint by 10% ( not unconventional ) with distilled water and used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap. Layed it on thick and now waiting for some levelling to happen. Should know sometime late tonight.
Fingers crossed.

JC

That didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

HELP

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 332
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2017, 07:34 PM »
That didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

HELP
Might have to wait for Tom to reply but just a thought.  Seems like the one difference is you have a Q5 and Tom has a Q4.  The Q5 is a bit higher pressure although it sounds like you might need a higher tip pressure to me but I'm no expert!  Since you have a Q5, doesn't it have the variable output or is that another model?  You could drop that a bit.

You have a pressure pot but its max is 10psi, correct?  If it were me(crazy, recently replaced brake lines on a car and tested every connection for leaks at 1,000psi with nitrogen), I'd take it outside run an air line to it at 25-30psi, cover it with a trash can and see if it goes boom.  If it holds try the PP if possible at over 10psi.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4678
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2017, 12:19 AM »
Getting desperate and thinking outside the box.
As this paint needs to be applied thick, somewhere around 3.5 - 4.0 wet mils, and I need to get enough air to atomize the paint from my Q5, I decided to do something unconventional. I thinned the paint by 10% ( not unconventional ) with distilled water and used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap. Layed it on thick and now waiting for some levelling to happen. Should know sometime late tonight.
Fingers crossed.

JC

That didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

HELP

How did it look when it went on?

What is wrong that you say it did not work?

Wife and I are in Denver visiting the granddaughters. I'll respond as time allows.

Tom

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3384
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2017, 12:55 PM »
... used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap.

I have a pps cup and attachment you can borrow.
Tim

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 332
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2017, 01:35 PM »
I have a pps cup and attachment you can borrow.
Tim
How could that help?  The only thing possible with that is to pressurize the cup before it enters the gun but I'm unsure if does make any change which I do myself on my Gxpc.

It could be possible to pressurize a PPS cup or any cup as a matter of fact with an external source(compressor) with the proper fittings.  The people at 3M said that the check valve on a HO PPS cup opens at 15psi so in theory, one could go that high without becoming the color of the day! [eek]
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 04:03 PM »
I had a dream last night and now I have a theory. Got myself a T75 pressurized gravity gun.
Here we go with more testing.
Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 05:36 PM »
I had a dream last night and now I have a theory. Got myself a T75 pressurized gravity gun.
Here we go with more testing.
Cheers,
JC

Well my theory didn't work.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2017, 12:31 PM »
Well maybe I should have spent my money on green instead of Blue.

I'm almost convinced that spraying BM Advance, 10% thinned with water, Q5, T70 bottom feed gun, different sized needles is not possible.
I have tried, I believe, every combination of air pressure, volume delivery and needle size possible.
I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. This paint is impossible to spray with HVLP.
If you want to take on the challenge, you must use no pressure pots or PPS system. Pure HVLP turbine and gun and not thin more then 10% with water, as the TDS states. No Floetrol as it is not compatible with Advance as it is designed for Acrylic/latex paint and Advance contains no Acrylic.

I may have a Q5, turbine only, for sale soon. Stay tuned.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 332
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2017, 01:33 PM »
Well maybe I should have spent my money on green instead of Blue.

I'm almost convinced that spraying BM Advance, 10% thinned with water, Q5, T70 bottom feed gun, different sized needles is not possible.
I have tried, I believe, every combination of air pressure, volume delivery and needle size possible.
I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. This paint is impossible to spray with HVLP.
If you want to take on the challenge, you must use no pressure pots or PPS system. Pure HVLP turbine and gun and not thin more then 10% with water, as the TDS states. No Floetrol as it is not compatible with Advance as it is designed for Acrylic/latex paint and Advance contains no Acrylic.

I may have a Q5, turbine only, for sale soon. Stay tuned.
Cheers,
JC
A side from the Q5, Tom sprayed it, didn't mention any problems and he never edits anything out.

Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2017, 01:40 PM »
Bill,

You'll notice that Tom uses the PPS system and that he has altered is air supply to the pressurized pot. He has tapped his hose to get full pressure to the pot. Even if he reduces the air to the cap, he still maintains full turbine pressure to the pot. I've tried something similar by use a pressure pot on the gun pressurized by a JC10 compressor and using all of the air from the turbine to the cap.

JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 332
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2017, 01:58 PM »
Bill,

You'll notice that Tom uses the PPS system and that he has altered is air supply to the pressurized pot. He has tapped his hose to get full pressure to the pot. Even if he reduces the air to the cap, he still maintains full turbine pressure to the pot. I've tried something similar by use a pressure pot on the gun pressurized by a JC10 compressor and using all of the air from the turbine to the cap.

JC
Yeah but Tom has stated in the past that he never reduces air to the cap.  I have the same setup to use on either of my Gxpc guns but I just use it to turn off the air to the gun while feeding a PPS cup to near collapsed and then open it.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 02:02 PM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2017, 03:37 PM »
So after carefully looking at the way Tom sprays Advance I can see the following
1) He's using a Q4 which produces 7.5 psi. I have a Q5 that I can dial down to a Q4. So I will do that.
2) The way his check valve is connected to the PPS cup, would lead me to believe that he is getting approx 7 psi to the cup. I will do the same using a compressor to deliver 7psi to my pot.

Now in the video he is using a 1.5mm needle on a T70 gun. I will do the same. Also, he says he is not thinning this. I will do the same.

Off to spray.

JC

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 673
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2017, 04:36 PM »
What temperature/humidity are you spraying the product and the same for Tom. How do you mix your paint and how does Tom mix his paint. Basically what viscosity are you both spraying the product, without a Ford/Zahn type cup flow measurement especially with a problematic product like BM Advance you might as well try to compare an apple to watermelon.

I just read the tech spec sheet for Advanced and found something interesting, in the application section the only method listed is Airless with a pressure setting 1500 to 2500 psi. In my limited experience most stuff I spray is in the 300 to 700 psi range with my units max pressure being 1400 psi. Does this suggest anything?

John
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 04:49 PM by kcufstoidi »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 04:47 PM »
So after carefully looking at the way Tom sprays Advance I can see the following
1) He's using a Q4 which produces 7.5 psi. I have a Q5 that I can dial down to a Q4. So I will do that.
2) The way his check valve is connected to the PPS cup, would lead me to believe that he is getting approx 7 psi to the cup. I will do the same using a compressor to deliver 7psi to my pot.

Now in the video he is using a 1.5mm needle on a T70 gun. I will do the same. Also, he says he is not thinning this. I will do the same.

Off to spray.

JC
Well that didn't work.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 625
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 04:58 PM »
I just got this from Benjamin Moore. Advance Spray Recommendations.

Now I got something else to try.