Author Topic: I got Blue, not Green  (Read 7805 times)

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Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
I got Blue, not Green
« on: December 29, 2016, 02:42 PM »
Hi Everyone. I trust everyone had a great Christmas and that you were spoiled by Santa.
I didn't get any Festool green for Christmas but got some Blue. Got myself a Fuji Q5 at a great price. Now I'll be able to spray BM Advance, I hope.
Cheers.
JC

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline denovo

  • Posts: 18
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2016, 06:23 PM »
What made you decide to go with the Q5?  It sounded like you were seriously considering going the AAA route.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2016, 08:45 PM »
What made you decide to go with the Q5?  It sounded like you were seriously considering going the AAA route.
I purchased the Q5 because the deal was to good to pass up. I'm still looking at getting a AAA system though. I will eventually use my HVLP for small jobs like staining, applying poly on small items and small paint projects.
I still need to do a bit more research and make arrangements to go see a demo of CA Technologies H2O Waterbourne system.
Cheers,
JC

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 18
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2016, 09:01 AM »
I purchased the Q5 because the deal was to good to pass up. I'm still looking at getting a AAA system though. I will eventually use my HVLP for small jobs like staining, applying poly on small items and small paint projects.
I still need to do a bit more research and make arrangements to go see a demo of CA Technologies H2O Waterbourne system.
Cheers,
JC

I would probably do the same thing if I found the Q5 at a good price.  Let me know what you think of the setup when spraying BM Advance

Happy New Year!
- Bryan

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #4 on: December 31, 2016, 02:32 PM »
I purchased the Q5 because the deal was to good to pass up. I'm still looking at getting a AAA system though. I will eventually use my HVLP for small jobs like staining, applying poly on small items and small paint projects.
I still need to do a bit more research and make arrangements to go see a demo of CA Technologies H2O Waterbourne system.
Cheers,
JC

I would probably do the same thing if I found the Q5 at a good price.  Let me know what you think of the setup when spraying BM Advance

Happy New Year!
- Bryan

Well I just tried BM Advance tinted grey, which makes it thicker then pure white out of the can, and the light at the end of the tunnel is getting brighter. Now, a lot of people will say forget Advance and spray Kem Aqua or the equivalent, but I am determine to figure out the proper combination to get a great finish. So the testing continues.

First I tried at 2mm needle, thin 20% with distilled water and my T70 siphon gun. Not a bad finish resulted from this but still not happy.
Second test, I tried a 2.5mm needle, thinned 10% with distilled water and used my Earlex Pro 8 gun and was able to lay a thin wet coat. Great atomization from a $160.00 gun. it looked great when wet. No roughness.

I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2016, 02:49 PM »
I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC
If you think it's the need for more pressure on the cup or the product itself, why not try a pressure pot so you could put way over 10psi on the product?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2016, 03:28 PM »
I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC
If you think it's the need for more pressure on the cup or the product itself, why not try a pressure pot so you could put way over 10psi on the product?

I do have a quart size pressure pot from CA Technologies but the maximum allowed pressure in the pot is 10psi.Which is not enough for this Advance. I used a small compressor, Rolair JC10, to pressurize the pot to force the paint up the tube and to the gun tip and used all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. I could go with a larger pressure pot but I didn't want to spend $1000 for a pot. Trying to  be economical. The photo is the pressure pot one I have.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2016, 03:43 PM »

I do have a quart size pressure pot from CA Technologies but the maximum allowed pressure in the pot is 10psi.Which is not enough for this Advance. I used a small compressor, Rolair JC10, to pressurize the pot to force the paint up the tube and to the gun tip and used all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. I could go with a larger pressure pot but I didn't want to spend $1000 for a pot. Trying to  be economical. The photo is the pressure pot one I have.
Cheers,
JC
I have a two quart Fuji branded PP but it looks just like the CA Tech and cast into it's top, "50psi MAX" but it has a threaded lid.  I just read an old review of BM Advance vs SW Pro Classic and it stated don't thin.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 12:15 AM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 18
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2017, 07:26 PM »


Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC

Have you had time to conduct any more testing with the Q5 and BM Advanced?

Offline polarsea1

  • Posts: 286
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2017, 02:26 AM »
I have done other test with a 1.8 and 1.5 needle in my T70 and got crappy rough finish. Not enough pressure is generated in the cup, even with a 5 stage.

This paint does not like small orifices. If you have a compressor setup and can get lots of pressure, then you can force it through, but if you have an HVLP setup you will need a larger needle. DO NOT THIN THIS PAINT MORE THEN 10%. It does alter the chemistry of the paint.

Next test, no thinning, 2.5mil needle and my Earlex gun.

Cheers and Happy New Year to everyone.
JC
If you think it's the need for more pressure on the cup or the product itself, why not try a pressure pot so you could put way over 10psi on the product?

I do have a quart size pressure pot from CA Technologies but the maximum allowed pressure in the pot is 10psi.Which is not enough for this Advance. I used a small compressor, Rolair JC10, to pressurize the pot to force the paint up the tube and to the gun tip and used all of the air from the Q5 to atomize the paint. I could go with a larger pressure pot but I didn't want to spend $1000 for a pot. Trying to  be economical. The photo is the pressure pot one I have.
Cheers,
JC

My Binks SG2 pot is rated to 50lb. You can find a decent one on ebay for a reasonable price.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2017, 12:48 PM »
This is very frustrating. I don't know why I can't get a smooth coat when sprying Advance. Maybe I'm not spraying it on thick enough. Need to find my wet gauge. It should not be this difficult.
Going to try 1.8mil, no thinning with the Q5. Let see what happens.

Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2017, 01:34 PM »
This is very frustrating. I don't know why I can't get a smooth coat when sprying Advance. Maybe I'm not spraying it on thick enough. Need to find my wet gauge. It should not be this difficult.
Going to try 1.8mil, no thinning with the Q5. Let see what happens.

Cheers,
JC
The SD sheet I have saved is for BM Advance Satin and reads 3.6 mils wet film.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2017, 01:57 PM »
Hi Bill,

I reviewed a video that Tom sent me spraying advance and he uses 1.5mil needle, a Q4 and the 3M PPS setup for his T70 Gravity gun. I have not tried the PPS setup as I have spent way to much money on trying to resolve the problems. No matter how misty the paint output is, it comes out lumpy. Tried every needle size, reduced fan and paint flow even a pressure pot setup and still not having any success.
Using your quote, " MOST CONFUSED "
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2017, 02:57 PM »
Hi Bill,

I reviewed a video that Tom sent me spraying advance and he uses 1.5mil needle, a Q4 and the 3M PPS setup for his T70 Gravity gun. I have not tried the PPS setup as I have spent way to much money on trying to resolve the problems. No matter how misty the paint output is, it comes out lumpy. Tried every needle size, reduced fan and paint flow even a pressure pot setup and still not having any success.
Using your quote, " MOST CONFUSED "
Cheers,
JC
Hey, hey! "Most Confused" is copyrighted.  [wink]

I just found that video but Tom doesn't mention or check the film thickness but 3.6 mils is what the sheet states.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2017, 05:29 PM »
Getting desperate and thinking outside the box.
As this paint needs to be applied thick, somewhere around 3.5 - 4.0 wet mils, and I need to get enough air to atomize the paint from my Q5, I decided to do something unconventional. I thinned the paint by 10% ( not unconventional ) with distilled water and used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap. Layed it on thick and now waiting for some levelling to happen. Should know sometime late tonight.
Fingers crossed.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2017, 06:11 PM »
Getting desperate and thinking outside the box.
As this paint needs to be applied thick, somewhere around 3.5 - 4.0 wet mils, and I need to get enough air to atomize the paint from my Q5, I decided to do something unconventional. I thinned the paint by 10% ( not unconventional ) with distilled water and used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap. Layed it on thick and now waiting for some levelling to happen. Should know sometime late tonight.
Fingers crossed.

JC

That didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

HELP

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2017, 07:34 PM »
That didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

HELP
Might have to wait for Tom to reply but just a thought.  Seems like the one difference is you have a Q5 and Tom has a Q4.  The Q5 is a bit higher pressure although it sounds like you might need a higher tip pressure to me but I'm no expert!  Since you have a Q5, doesn't it have the variable output or is that another model?  You could drop that a bit.

You have a pressure pot but its max is 10psi, correct?  If it were me(crazy, recently replaced brake lines on a car and tested every connection for leaks at 1,000psi with nitrogen), I'd take it outside run an air line to it at 25-30psi, cover it with a trash can and see if it goes boom.  If it holds try the PP if possible at over 10psi.
Bill
Most Confused!

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4601
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2017, 12:19 AM »
Getting desperate and thinking outside the box.
As this paint needs to be applied thick, somewhere around 3.5 - 4.0 wet mils, and I need to get enough air to atomize the paint from my Q5, I decided to do something unconventional. I thinned the paint by 10% ( not unconventional ) with distilled water and used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap. Layed it on thick and now waiting for some levelling to happen. Should know sometime late tonight.
Fingers crossed.

JC

That didn't work. Back to the drawing board.

HELP

How did it look when it went on?

What is wrong that you say it did not work?

Wife and I are in Denver visiting the granddaughters. I'll respond as time allows.

Tom

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3339
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2017, 12:55 PM »
... used a 1mil needle with the 2mil air cap.

I have a pps cup and attachment you can borrow.
Tim

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2017, 01:35 PM »
I have a pps cup and attachment you can borrow.
Tim
How could that help?  The only thing possible with that is to pressurize the cup before it enters the gun but I'm unsure if does make any change which I do myself on my Gxpc.

It could be possible to pressurize a PPS cup or any cup as a matter of fact with an external source(compressor) with the proper fittings.  The people at 3M said that the check valve on a HO PPS cup opens at 15psi so in theory, one could go that high without becoming the color of the day! [eek]
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2017, 04:03 PM »
I had a dream last night and now I have a theory. Got myself a T75 pressurized gravity gun.
Here we go with more testing.
Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2017, 05:36 PM »
I had a dream last night and now I have a theory. Got myself a T75 pressurized gravity gun.
Here we go with more testing.
Cheers,
JC

Well my theory didn't work.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2017, 12:31 PM »
Well maybe I should have spent my money on green instead of Blue.

I'm almost convinced that spraying BM Advance, 10% thinned with water, Q5, T70 bottom feed gun, different sized needles is not possible.
I have tried, I believe, every combination of air pressure, volume delivery and needle size possible.
I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. This paint is impossible to spray with HVLP.
If you want to take on the challenge, you must use no pressure pots or PPS system. Pure HVLP turbine and gun and not thin more then 10% with water, as the TDS states. No Floetrol as it is not compatible with Advance as it is designed for Acrylic/latex paint and Advance contains no Acrylic.

I may have a Q5, turbine only, for sale soon. Stay tuned.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2017, 01:33 PM »
Well maybe I should have spent my money on green instead of Blue.

I'm almost convinced that spraying BM Advance, 10% thinned with water, Q5, T70 bottom feed gun, different sized needles is not possible.
I have tried, I believe, every combination of air pressure, volume delivery and needle size possible.
I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. This paint is impossible to spray with HVLP.
If you want to take on the challenge, you must use no pressure pots or PPS system. Pure HVLP turbine and gun and not thin more then 10% with water, as the TDS states. No Floetrol as it is not compatible with Advance as it is designed for Acrylic/latex paint and Advance contains no Acrylic.

I may have a Q5, turbine only, for sale soon. Stay tuned.
Cheers,
JC
A side from the Q5, Tom sprayed it, didn't mention any problems and he never edits anything out.

Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2017, 01:40 PM »
Bill,

You'll notice that Tom uses the PPS system and that he has altered is air supply to the pressurized pot. He has tapped his hose to get full pressure to the pot. Even if he reduces the air to the cap, he still maintains full turbine pressure to the pot. I've tried something similar by use a pressure pot on the gun pressurized by a JC10 compressor and using all of the air from the turbine to the cap.

JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2017, 01:58 PM »
Bill,

You'll notice that Tom uses the PPS system and that he has altered is air supply to the pressurized pot. He has tapped his hose to get full pressure to the pot. Even if he reduces the air to the cap, he still maintains full turbine pressure to the pot. I've tried something similar by use a pressure pot on the gun pressurized by a JC10 compressor and using all of the air from the turbine to the cap.

JC
Yeah but Tom has stated in the past that he never reduces air to the cap.  I have the same setup to use on either of my Gxpc guns but I just use it to turn off the air to the gun while feeding a PPS cup to near collapsed and then open it.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 02:02 PM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2017, 03:37 PM »
So after carefully looking at the way Tom sprays Advance I can see the following
1) He's using a Q4 which produces 7.5 psi. I have a Q5 that I can dial down to a Q4. So I will do that.
2) The way his check valve is connected to the PPS cup, would lead me to believe that he is getting approx 7 psi to the cup. I will do the same using a compressor to deliver 7psi to my pot.

Now in the video he is using a 1.5mm needle on a T70 gun. I will do the same. Also, he says he is not thinning this. I will do the same.

Off to spray.

JC

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 655
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2017, 04:36 PM »
What temperature/humidity are you spraying the product and the same for Tom. How do you mix your paint and how does Tom mix his paint. Basically what viscosity are you both spraying the product, without a Ford/Zahn type cup flow measurement especially with a problematic product like BM Advance you might as well try to compare an apple to watermelon.

I just read the tech spec sheet for Advanced and found something interesting, in the application section the only method listed is Airless with a pressure setting 1500 to 2500 psi. In my limited experience most stuff I spray is in the 300 to 700 psi range with my units max pressure being 1400 psi. Does this suggest anything?

John
« Last Edit: January 10, 2017, 04:49 PM by kcufstoidi »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2017, 04:47 PM »
So after carefully looking at the way Tom sprays Advance I can see the following
1) He's using a Q4 which produces 7.5 psi. I have a Q5 that I can dial down to a Q4. So I will do that.
2) The way his check valve is connected to the PPS cup, would lead me to believe that he is getting approx 7 psi to the cup. I will do the same using a compressor to deliver 7psi to my pot.

Now in the video he is using a 1.5mm needle on a T70 gun. I will do the same. Also, he says he is not thinning this. I will do the same.

Off to spray.

JC
Well that didn't work.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2017, 04:58 PM »
I just got this from Benjamin Moore. Advance Spray Recommendations.

Now I got something else to try.

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #30 on: January 10, 2017, 07:27 PM »
Well that didn't work.
What do you mean by "That didn't work"?
Bill
Most Confused!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Swordstriper

  • Posts: 2
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #31 on: January 10, 2017, 09:58 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2017, 12:24 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!
Thanks for the advice. Went out and gout the re-build kit for my T70 and replaced all of the seals.
Now according to BM, they recommend a 1.3mil needle and cap and 7.5 psi and 5-10% reduction. I will try this and see if it works.
Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2017, 12:56 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!
Thanks for the advice. Went out and gout the re-build kit for my T70 and replaced all of the seals.
Now according to BM, they recommend a 1.3mil needle and cap and 7.5 psi and 5-10% reduction. I will try this and see if it works.
Cheers,
JC
This "may" apply to your T70 as well but might be meaningless overall!   I was fiddling with one of my Fuji Gxpc guns connected through a 3M mini-regulator to a 5 gallon tank.  That being quiet unlike the turbine, I heard air leaking from the handle grip.  There were a total of three leaks.  The aluminum nipple goes into a tapped hole that has a shoulder which didn't allow it to seal.  The quick disconnect fitting also holds the handle on but when the handle was tight the pipe thread wasn't.  Just forward of where the nipple is threaded hole into the gun body with a plug that has a straight thread which is loose by its nature.  I used Teflon tape on all three and did the same on my other Gxpc.  Would these leaks cause any issues?  Don't know but it's a heck of way to design a tool that uses air with leaks like this.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 02:20 PM »
Contact Fuji. I had problems that sound like that and they sent me a new air diffuser rebuild kit. It made all the difference!
Thanks for the advice. Went out and gout the re-build kit for my T70 and replaced all of the seals.
Now according to BM, they recommend a 1.3mil needle and cap and 7.5 psi and 5-10% reduction. I will try this and see if it works.
Cheers,
JC
This "may" apply to your T70 as well but might be meaningless overall!   I was fiddling with one of my Fuji Gxpc guns connected through a 3M mini-regulator to a 5 gallon tank.  That being quiet unlike the turbine, I heard air leaking from the handle grip.  There were a total of three leaks.  The aluminum nipple goes into a tapped hole that has a shoulder which didn't allow it to seal.  The quick disconnect fitting also holds the handle on but when the handle was tight the pipe thread wasn't.  Just forward of where the nipple is threaded hole into the gun body with a plug that has a straight thread which is loose by its nature.  I used Teflon tape on all three and did the same on my other Gxpc.  Would these leaks cause any issues?  Don't know but it's a heck of way to design a tool that uses air with leaks like this.

Interesting. Let me check my gun.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2017, 02:56 PM »
Okay. Test done. Another failure.

Talk to BM in that states and they also recommend, 7.5psi with a 1.3mm needle when using HVLP, as per the pdf I posted.
They told me that they were able to spray between 3.5-4.5 wet mils in a single pass. They do not recommend doing a second pass to obtain they required thickness.
Now, how the heck do they get a 4-5 inch fan and thick enough for one pass without splatter? I call BS on that. With a Q4 or Q5 there is no problem pushing the paint through the gun, the problem is that the 1.3 cap set does not provide enough air to atomize the paint. So what to do.

Cheers,
JC


Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2017, 03:07 PM »
Okay. Test done. Another failure.

Talk to BM in that states and they also recommend, 7.5psi with a 1.3mm needle when using HVLP, as per the pdf I posted.
They told me that they were able to spray between 3.5-4.5 wet mils in a single pass. They do not recommend doing a second pass to obtain they required thickness.
Now, how the heck do they get a 4-5 inch fan and thick enough for one pass without splatter? I call BS on that. With a Q4 or Q5 there is no problem pushing the paint through the gun, the problem is that the 1.3 cap set does not provide enough air to atomize the paint. So what to do.

Cheers,
JC
Should have asked them as to how one checks for that 7.5psi on a HVLP system?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2017, 03:24 PM »
The Q5 has a variable speed knob. I asked Fuji to show me where 7.5 would be on the scale. So I set it there and actually increased the pressure to full pressure and it still comes out lumpy. I just watched a video on the web, and this person sprays same paint, Q4, gravity feed gun,looks like the 9600-G-XPC gun, 1.5mil and thinned 10%. It works for him.
Maybe its my gun.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2017, 04:15 PM »
Checked my gun, hose connectors, no leaks.


Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2017, 05:58 PM »
I AM A HAPPY CAMPER
Testing is done. Was able to produce a flawless spray. Now it's only being drying for an hour but it looks perfect. So what did I do.

I decided to bring out my Earlex Pro 8 gun out of retirement and give it a try. I used a 1.3mil needle, no thinning and full power on the Q5. I was able to get the paint to spray on thick and not lumpy like my T70 with same needle size. Now the only difference is that the Earlex uses the same air cap for 1.3mil needle and 2.0mil needle and has 2 extra holes for atomization. As I like the feel of the T70 gun better, tomorrow morning I will try the 2mil air cap and the 1.3 mil needle in my T70 and see what happens. If that doesn't work I will get Fuji to drill two small additional holes in their 1.3mil air cap.

Everyone wants a photo. I will see what it looks like after a few hours and if it looks nice I will post a photo.

Here is a link to the Earlex Pro 8 Gun. You can see the additional holes on the 1.3mm to 2.0mm air cap.

Earlex Pro 8 Gun
Cheers,
P.S. I should write a book on my experiences. Could save many of us a lot of time.

JC
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 06:03 PM by JCLP »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #40 on: January 11, 2017, 06:25 PM »
I AM A HAPPY CAMPER
Testing is done. Was able to produce a flawless spray. Now it's only being drying for an hour but it looks perfect. So what did I do.

I decided to bring out my Earlex Pro 8 gun out of retirement and give it a try. I used a 1.3mil needle, no thinning and full power on the Q5. I was able to get the paint to spray on thick and not lumpy like my T70 with same needle size. Now the only difference is that the Earlex uses the same air cap for 1.3mil needle and 2.0mil needle and has 2 extra holes for atomization. As I like the feel of the T70 gun better, tomorrow morning I will try the 2mil air cap and the 1.3 mil needle in my T70 and see what happens. If that doesn't work I will get Fuji to drill two small additional holes in their 1.3mil air cap.

Everyone wants a photo. I will see what it looks like after a few hours and if it looks nice I will post a photo.

Here is a link to the Earlex Pro 8 Gun. You can see the additional holes on the 1.3mm to 2.0mm air cap.

Earlex Pro 8 Gun
Cheers,
P.S. I should write a book on my experiences. Could save many of us a lot of time.

JC
The Gxpc has 1.4mm but not a 1.3mm.  The 1.4mm does have three holes on each side.  The 1mm/0.8mm both have six more extra holes, three above the needle/nozzle opening and three below it.  I didn't know this till a few months ago that as you decrease the needle/nozzle/cap set size the narrower the fan adjustment range.  That's why Tom uses a bigger air cap at times.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2017, 06:47 PM »
Hi Bill,
Your right on the extra air holes. It's interesting that on the T7* series guns that they have less holes. Benjamin Moore used the Capspray MaxumII gun, and they too have extra holes. That could be the difference. I will get Fuji to drill me a couple of holes, as I don't have a bit that small or maybe see if the GXPC air cap fits the T70.
Till tomorrow.

JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2017, 07:24 PM »
Hi Bill,
Your right on the extra air holes. It's interesting that on the T7* series guns that they have less holes. Benjamin Moore used the Capspray MaxumII gun, and they too have extra holes. That could be the difference. I will get Fuji to drill me a couple of holes, as I don't have a bit that small or maybe see if the GXPC air cap fits the T70.
Till tomorrow.

JC
Fuji will do that for you?  Some of those holes are at an angle so that might be tricky to do on your own.

What's still confusing is that Tom uses a T-70 but with a Q4!

I'm tempted to pick some BM Advance and try it myself.
Bill
Most Confused!

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4601
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2017, 10:53 PM »
or maybe see if the GXPC air cap fits the T70.
Till tomorrow.

JC

It does not.

Good to see you're making headway.

Tom

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2017, 10:44 AM »
Thank Tom.
Just found a leak in my hose. Going to get a new one.
Stay tune.

JC

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4601
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2017, 02:06 PM »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2017, 03:11 PM »
This hose.

https://www.amazon.com/25-Hose-HVLP-Turbine-Sprayer/dp/B00GAFE6LI

Tom
Thanks Tom. Got a new hose from Fuji.
So Fuji and I think it is the iteranl workings of the gun that could be corrected. So we are going exchange my gun for a new one. If that doesn't solve the it, the problem could be located down the arm, across the shoulder, above the neck and somewhere between the ears.

Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2017, 03:33 PM »
Thanks Tom. Got a new hose from Fuji.
So Fuji and I think it is the iteranl workings of the gun that could be corrected. So we are going exchange my gun for a new one. If that doesn't solve the it, the problem could be located down the arm, across the shoulder, above the neck and somewhere between the ears.

Cheers,
JC
OMG!  How close do you live to Fuji??  They sent me a whole new Gxpc when the air fitting that feeds the cup got tight and they said to force it out which ripped the threads with it.  I tapped the hole to a bigger size, made a new fitting out of aluminum with an added "O'ring to seal better and that's why I have two working Gxpc's now.  [big grin]
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2017, 03:51 PM »
Thanks Tom. Got a new hose from Fuji.
So Fuji and I think it is the iteranl workings of the gun that could be corrected. So we are going exchange my gun for a new one. If that doesn't solve the it, the problem could be located down the arm, across the shoulder, above the neck and somewhere between the ears.

Cheers,
JC
OMG!  How close do you live to Fuji??  They sent me a whole new Gxpc when the air fitting that feeds the cup got tight and they said to force it out which ripped the threads with it.  I tapped the hole to a bigger size, made a new fitting out of aluminum with an added "O'ring to seal better and that's why I have two working Gxpc's now.  [big grin]

I live 15-20 minutes away. Will be there 7:30am tomorrow morning to make the exchange and pick up some new stuff to try out.

Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2017, 06:16 PM »
More info.

I just got off the phone with BM and the recommendations for spraying Advance that they provide me, that I posted earlier, is based on Advance Base 1X white, not tinted. When you go to a darker colour, base 2x in my case and colour is called Escarpment, those specs do not apply as the paint does get much thicker the darker you tint it. Now my friend Tim, just sprayed white advance using the specs provide by BM and it worked. He did say it wasn't his favourite, but it looks fine. I called BM after talking to Tim to pick their brains a little further.

Tomorrow I will try thinning by 10% and using a larger needle, probably start at 1.8 and then climb to 2.0 with full power from Q5, after I get my new gun of course.
Cheers,
JC


Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3339
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2017, 10:05 PM »
I sprayed this mdf panel with white BM advance today using the T70 siphon feed and a 1.3 needle cap set. The mdf panel was primed 2 x with SW wall and wood sanded with 320 and 400 and the Advance was thinned 10% with distilled water
Tim
[ Specified attachment is not available ]
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 10:08 PM by Tim Raleigh »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #51 on: January 13, 2017, 04:09 PM »
So, what did I learn these last few weeks? How to spray Advance.

Also learned that many people that I have talked to have told me that they have no problem in spraying BM Advance with a 4 or 5 stage HVLP turbine but they all forget one very important detail, what colour are they spraying. The colour of the paint plays a very important role in determining what needle air cap set you will use and how much air you use for atomization.

For example, BM recommends for HVLP, 7.5psi, 1.3mil needle and 4-5 wet mils. This works well for Base 1 Advance colour white. In other words, right off the shelf. I was able to get good results following their recommendations with Base 1 White Advance. I still thin 10% though.
Now if you tint your paint to a medium grey, colour cc-518 Escarpment for instance, it requires Base 2 and a lot of colour/solids are added to the paint making it much thicker with a higher percentage of solids. So using the same specs you used for Base 1 White will not work with the medium grey colour. I would assume this is the same for any paint you tint.

So for Advance here is what I concluded.

Base 1, White. 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 1.3 mil and 10% thinning ( optional )

Base 2, CC-518 Escarpement, 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 2.0 mil needle and 10% thinning

So in the future, I think it would be very helpful that when somebody states on the fog that they have no problem spraying a particular  type/brand of paint, that they should provide everyone with more information, such as;
- Brand and Type of paint
- Colour and Base that was used
- size of needle and air cap set
- What stage of turbine ( hvlp in this case)
- what brand and type of gun they are using. This makes a big difference as every manufacture has their own way of delivering the air to the tip
- % thinned and with what
etc
I think this would go a long way in helping people that are new to spraying, ( Like me ).

Cheers,
JC
« Last Edit: January 13, 2017, 04:25 PM by JCLP »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2017, 04:27 PM »
I sprayed this mdf panel with white BM advance today using the T70 siphon feed and a 1.3 needle cap set. The mdf panel was primed 2 x with SW wall and wood sanded with 320 and 400 and the Advance was thinned 10% with distilled water
Tim
(Attachment Link)
Everything looks smooth when you're out of focus.  ;)

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4601
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2017, 04:51 PM »
So, what did I learn these last few weeks? How to spray Advance.

Also learned that many people that I have talked to have told me that they have no problem in spraying BM Advance with a 4 or 5 stage HVLP turbine but they all forget one very important detail, what colour are they spraying. The colour of the paint plays a very important role in determining what needle air cap set you will use and how much air you use for atomization.

For example, BM recommends for HVLP, 7.5psi, 1.3mil needle and 4-5 wet mils. This works well for Base 1 Advance colour white. In other words, right off the shelf. I was able to get good results following their recommendations with Base 1 White Advance. I still thin 10% though.
Now if you tint your paint to a medium grey, colour cc-518 Escarpment for instance, it requires Base 2 and a lot of colour/solids are added to the paint making it much thicker with a higher percentage of solids. So using the same specs you used for Base 1 White will not work with the medium grey colour. I would assume this is the same for any paint you tint.

So for Advance here is what I concluded.

Base 1, White. 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 1.3 mil and 10% thinning ( optional )

Base 2, CC-518 Escarpement, 7.5 - 9.5 psi, 2.0 mil needle and 10% thinning

So in the future, I think it would be very helpful that when somebody states on the fog that they have no problem spraying a particular  type/brand of paint, that they should provide everyone with more information, such as;
- Brand and Type of paint
- Colour and Base that was used
- size of needle and air cap set
- What stage of turbine ( hvlp in this case)
- what brand and type of gun they are using. This makes a big difference as every manufacture has their own way of delivering the air to the tip
- % thinned and with what
etc
I think this would go a long way in helping people that are new to spraying, ( Like me ).

Cheers,
JC

I believe the Advance in my video(s) is what we discussed you were having an issue with. In the videos I also stated what turbine, air cap set, thinning, etc.....

Any manufacture recommendation(s) are only a base line at best. Unless I'm asked about a specific I don't bother looking at the manufactures specs. Odds of my shop being exactly the same as the manufactures are not good. Environment is as important as the product and equipment.

Spraying is not just the mechanics of application, it's the nuances how the environment, material and equipment all work together.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #54 on: January 13, 2017, 06:44 PM »
JCLP:

So in the end(I lost track) there was nothing wrong with your T-70 or system that affected the end results?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #55 on: January 13, 2017, 10:22 PM »
JCLP:

So in the end(I lost track) there was nothing wrong with your T-70 or system that affected the end results?
Nope. Nothing was wrong with the equipment. Got a new hose though and some other stuff from Fuji.

Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #56 on: January 14, 2017, 08:37 AM »
If it's not one thing, it's another. Woke up this morning to find this on my panel. This is the Grey Advance that I have been spraying.
Any help/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

BM Advance, cc-518 colour, base 2, thinned 10%
2.0 needle and cap
Fuji T70 gun, Q5

Cheers,
JC

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #57 on: January 14, 2017, 08:49 AM »
If it's not one thing, it's another. Woke up this morning to find this on my panel. This is the Grey Advance that I have been spraying.
Any help/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

BM Advance, cc-518 colour, base 2, thinned 10%
2.0 needle and cap
Fuji T70 gun, Q5

Cheers,
JC
Fisheye Defects

Fisheye at SW
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 08:52 AM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4601
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #58 on: January 14, 2017, 09:03 AM »
Spray a couple of very dry coats, don't sand between coats. Sand the top coat, apply the final coat wet.

Was this panel sprayed with the new hose? Contaminant inside hose? No citrus fruits in the shop.

Tom

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #59 on: January 14, 2017, 09:04 AM »
If it's not one thing, it's another. Woke up this morning to find this on my panel. This is the Grey Advance that I have been spraying.
Any help/suggestions would greatly be appreciated.

BM Advance, cc-518 colour, base 2, thinned 10%
2.0 needle and cap
Fuji T70 gun, Q5

Cheers,
JC
Fisheye Defects

Fisheye at SW

Thanks Bill. Been doing a lot of research and reading this morning. Could be solvent popping or fish eyes.

JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 600
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #60 on: January 18, 2017, 03:42 PM »
Well the adventure continued this morning with no success. Following what I was able to do a few days ago, the HVLP spray gods have decided to mess me up again. As it is hard to beat a higher power, I decided to put HVLP aside and try airless. So I took out my Graco TrueCoat Pro II handheld sprayer and give a try. Using a 311 tip and about 1200psi I sprayed a couple panels and they looked great, just like a wet lake, when they were wet but after a few hours of drying all of a sudden lumps, pin holes appeared. I have no idea what I did wrong.

So after a few hours of contemplating I have decided to hang up the sprayers and farm the work out to someone else. I can't remember the last time, if any, I gave up but I have to listen to the sprayer gods that I am not meant to spray and no matter I try they will not let me succeed.

Thanks everyone for their assistant over the last year or so.

Cheers,
JC

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Offline wptski

  • Posts: 274
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #61 on: January 18, 2017, 03:52 PM »
Well the adventure continued this morning with no success. Following what I was able to do a few days ago, the HVLP spray gods have decided to mess me up again. As it is hard to beat a higher power, I decided to put HVLP aside and try airless. So I took out my Graco TrueCoat Pro II handheld sprayer and give a try. Using a 311 tip and about 1200psi I sprayed a couple panels and they looked great, just like a wet lake, when they were wet but after a few hours of drying all of a sudden lumps, pin holes appeared. I have no idea what I did wrong.

So after a few hours of contemplating I have decided to hang up the sprayers and farm the work out to someone else. I can't remember the last time, if any, I gave up but I have to listen to the sprayer gods that I am not meant to spray and no matter I try they will not let me succeed.

Thanks everyone for their assistant over the last year or so.

Cheers,
JC
So sad!  :'(
Bill
Most Confused!

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4601
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #62 on: January 18, 2017, 04:51 PM »
Don't give up. Take a break and ease back into it.

Tom

Offline Swordstriper

  • Posts: 2
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #63 on: January 18, 2017, 11:56 PM »
Have you considered changing paints. Advance is a very interesting paint to spray as are most waterborne alkyds. I have produced beautiful finishes with them and then had similar troubles as you are having. Just for the fun of it buy a quart of the Advance primer, thin it to 25 seconds with the viscosity cup that Fuji provides. Spray it on at 3-4 mils wet and let it dry the recommended 6-8 at 25 degrees Celsius or 72 degrees Fahrenheit which ever you prefer. Then thin your Advance topcoat with water to the same 25 seconds and see what happens. Try to set your gun to apply 3-4 mild wet keeping the nozzle 3-4 inches from the surface being careful to maintain a 50% overlap. You will move faster and see what happens.

Offline denovo

  • Posts: 18
Re: I got Blue, not Green
« Reply #64 on: Yesterday at 01:09 AM »
I find when I'm in a simialr situation the best thing to do is to take a break and do something completely different and easy for awhile.  After a few days, weeks, or months go back and try again when you don't have any pressing deadlines.