Author Topic: Guidance on painting cabinets and trim  (Read 2226 times)

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Offline willr3

  • Posts: 7
Guidance on painting cabinets and trim
« on: January 24, 2017, 11:47 AM »
Hi All:

I see various posts asking about painting cabinets and while I think I know what to do I want to double check that I'm not going to waste time / money when I repaint my cabinets and trim.  My house cabinets and trim appear to be oil based paint over stain and the paint is not adhering or just cannot withstand the demands of a toddler.

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The wife wants everything painted white and I now have an RO 90 + CT 26 for the prep. My current plan is as follows:

1 - Sand the face frame / trim / doors with the RO 90 down to bare wood (removing the stain too).
2 - Fill the voids / cracks with Bondo
3 - Apply 2 coats of primer and lightly sand with 220 after each coat
4 - Apply 2 coats of Benjamin Moore Advanced water based alkyd. I also have a Sherwin Williams nearby if SW ProClassic would be a better fit.
5 - Do the cabinets need a top coat?

I'm not sure what primer I should be using. We tried Zinsser stain block after roughing the oil based paint in the bathroom but the Behr white latex just peeled off so I do not know what to use when priming the wood before the top coats.

Do I need to stick with an oil based primer because the wood was originally stained? The house is 50+ and so far all the cabinets / trim are either solid wood or plywood (no MDF yet).

I've read a few posts about people applying a clear coat over their cabinets. I do not have a sprayer so I think Kem Aqua is out but is there another wipe / brush on product I should consider?

--WIll



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Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Guidance on painting cabinets and trim
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2017, 12:07 PM »
I don't have much experience on this but based on the search from internet you can do BM advance or pro classic or chalk paint without spraying.

Offline willr3

  • Posts: 7
Re: Guidance on painting cabinets and trim
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2017, 12:18 PM »
@usatu thanks, I'm glad to hear your searching also turned up BM Advanced as a paint option. It sounds like the internet favors Advanced over ProClassic but I am not sure how much stake to put into those "DIY bloggers." Do you know of a primer preference?

I am off to my "local" Woodcrafters for some RO 90 attachments. Should be back in, oh, 3 hours  [unsure]

Offline Randel

  • Posts: 10
Re: Guidance on painting cabinets and trim
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2017, 11:18 PM »
20 years in the painting industry, I have never used the BM paint but I do know the Pro Classic is a great paint for brushing and rolling. I usually use a adhesion primer before to help sticking to the oils surface.

I'd recommend sanding a door to what prep your want to do then take in to your local SW and ask them to put on a few primers in store to find the one that performs the best. (They should have no problem doing this for free) Then if you are going with Pro Classic I'd ask for the Water/Oil Hybrid. This is water clean up but drys to a harder coolant. Also if you don't paint much I'd recommend latex extenders to possible add to the paint because it has a fast drying time and this will help with brush marks. Also a velour winni roller works great.

Offline willr3

  • Posts: 7
Re: Guidance on painting cabinets and trim
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2017, 07:14 AM »
@Randel thank you!! I am definitely a novice painter. Is Floetrol the appropriate extender for SW ProClassic water based alkyd? What should I look for when I bring the door to Sherwin Williams to compare primers?

Offline tdwilli1

  • Posts: 28
Re: Guidance on painting cabinets and trim
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2017, 08:47 AM »
20 years in the painting industry, I have never used the BM paint but I do know the Pro Classic is a great paint for brushing and rolling. I usually use a adhesion primer before to help sticking to the oils surface.

I'd recommend sanding a door to what prep your want to do then take in to your local SW and ask them to put on a few primers in store to find the one that performs the best. (They should have no problem doing this for free) Then if you are going with Pro Classic I'd ask for the Water/Oil Hybrid. This is water clean up but drys to a harder coolant. Also if you don't paint much I'd recommend latex extenders to possible add to the paint because it has a fast drying time and this will help with brush marks. Also a velour winni roller works great.

I have a question about the extender if you can help. My neighbor just used the Hybrid to paint some cabinets. He bought the satin finish and we put the extender in it. When it dried it had changed the color and sheen to a brighter white. So he couldn't use the extender as he was matching the trim in the room with the cabinets. The SW guys said that that was normal. Has that been your experience?

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1937
Guidance on painting cabinets and trim
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2017, 09:27 PM »
Hey guys.

I did an extensive remodel on a 1980's house recently (all baseboards, casing, doors and cabinets). It was all pine, solid and a "warm brown" color. I.e. - horrible in the wifey's eyes, so that is all that mattered!

This is the process I did for each "thing":

Baseboards:
- remove them from the wall
- pull nails out of the back to minimize holes on the face
- inspect for cracks, major defects, etc. replace or fix as necessary
- invest in some timbermate wood filler, you will thank me later.
- I sanded most of the faces of the boards down to bare wood or pretty close because of the horrible poly job they did. You don't need to sand to bare wood if you use the primer in my next step.
- buy Zinsser BIN shellac based paint. Buy a bunch of decent mini rollers and foam brushes. Depending on how much priming you will do, buy in bulk from Amazon or your place de jour
- BIN goes on like water, dries thicker than that (from the shellac), doesn't clean up well (have to use denatured alcohol, hence disposable brushes and rollers. It dries in about 10 minutes, I re-coat at about 15, and usually will do 2 on the baseboards to "take the abuse" when they go on the walls.   I personally LOVE this primer but it does have a bit of a learning curve and some other "gotchas". (See that section below!)
- depending on the contour of your molding, you might be able to use the mini roller for all of it. If not, use the foam brush to fill in the curves, cracks and contours as necessary. Don't worry if it looks blotchy or lacking in certain spots. It is the bond you are really concerned with here.

<sidebar>
If you have never heard that "shellac sticks to anything, and anything sticks to shellac", you will understand why after using it.
</sidebar>

- again, 1-2 coats depending how the wood sucks the stuff up. Remember, this is not waterbased, so it will not "soak" into the wood. You will love it.
- after the primer is dry, use a 320 grit paper to knock off nibs and other things.  If you want it super smooth, you might need to work a bit more with filler and primer.  Don't overdo it, they are baseboards and are not at eye level. You want clean and durable above all else.
- I personally use all Sherwin Williams stuff. I am not a pro but I do love their paint. I have been using Pro Classic for years. It looks ugly sometimes when you lay it down, but levels out great. If you want to try it, they have a sale until 2017.02.04. If you stick with BM, I can't help you but if you want to do the PC, read on...
- roll on the PC with a mini roller just on the flats!  Use a good velour roller and it will lay down great. 2 coats on this and you will be good to go. If you have too much orange peel after the first coat, the roller is hold the paint wrong. Get better rollers. You can sand in between coats if you want, but I rarely do.
- after the 2 coats, paint the crevices and curves with a high quality Purdy nylon brush designed for this type of paint. Again, lay it a little thick, don't over work it and try not to go back on drips. You will get used to working with it.  I don't generally do 2 coats on the curves because I am laying it on well, but you might need to as you get adjusted.
- I let it dry for at least 48 hours before putting it back on the wall. Just a habit for me. I use 23g pin nails and adhesive and glue as necessary for outside corners. Use what you have or use it as an excuse to get a new gun!  ;^)

Casing/trim:
- same products as above
- in my case, I had a strange door and window trim the the roller only method didn't work well. I used a lot of foam brushes to get the one and only primer coat on. It will look ugly but will bond like James!
- same 2 coats of PC on top, with touch ups as needed.
- I got really quick on my doors and windows. I could get 4-5 windows and doors completely primed and at least the first coat of PC on well within a day. YMMV

Cabinets:
- it is a lot of the same steps as above but for the doors and drawers, you will have to figure out what your paint workflow is. I made a bunch of craftsman style doors with raised panels and primed and painted the cracks crevices first. Let them cure a little (2+ days). Use a roller to paint the edges around the same time if you can. One the inlay and edges are dry (2+ days), I sand the faces where any overpaint ended up. Your RO 90 should be good here (use Granat). Then I roll on the face and backs. 2 coats all around. Be careful of drips along where the face meets the edges. If you want "practice", do the backs first to get good at it.
- some people will use some winded in the PC to act as an extender, others will also put poly in the paint to be a bit harder. I wouldn't use a latex hardner.

Once you do the above enough times, you will start looking at airless or HVLP machines... I speak from experience!!

Gotchas:
-BIN is great, but if you use caulk at all, it doesn't behave itself. Since the caulk is elastic, it can't bond as expected and as the seasons shift, the paint will crack like egg shells. I put caulk on last and touch up the paint as needed.
- protect any surface you don't want paint on. If you drop BIN on surfaces, it can be very difficult to get out. Carpet, anything porous, it is almost impossible. Be safe, not sorry later. Take the time to prep right.
- this paint ain't cheap. Expect to pay about 40.00 for a can of BIN and about the same for PC. It only hurts once.


Good luck in whatever path you take on this mate. And keep us posted to your trials and tribulations and of course the final results.

Cheers. Bryan.


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« Last Edit: February 05, 2017, 04:26 PM by bkharman »
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1937
Re: Guidance on painting cabinets and trim
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 04:25 PM »
One thing I changed above was to use a velour roller for laying out PC.

Cheers. Bryan.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?