Author Topic: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?  (Read 2583 times)

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Offline MaxBoronovskis

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The muntins between the glass panels in a heritage style window.

I have the 90 and 150 Rotex but the windows I’m looking at have lots of smaller surfaces.

Didn’t enjoy my last stripping of profiled edge with paint stripper. This one at least doesnt have profile just flat.

Appreciate any tips on technique, hand machine or chemical stripping.

Thanks

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Offline rst

  • Posts: 1951
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2018, 08:36 PM »
I would use the newer DTS with edge guard and some judicious scraping and sanding next to the glass.

Offline Dick Mahany

  • Posts: 366
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2018, 08:57 PM »
Possibly a Fein Multimaster with the profile sanding accessories.  Only suggesting this if you are not wanting to use the delta pads on the RO90.  My Multimaster has a kit that very much resembles the old, discontinued Porter Cable Profile sander attachments.  It works very well, but is very much a limited-purpose accessory.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2018, 12:00 AM »
How many of those do you have to do?

I think a delta pad will give the best control on those edges. Plus the delta gives good visibilty. DTS or RO90. LS130 might be useful too.

What I would really do is ........................... let someone else take that job.  [scratch chin] 

Seth

Offline The.Handyman

  • Posts: 87
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2018, 12:12 AM »
I would say the Mirka Deos 3x5 sander would be the best tool.

Its my new go to sander. So smooth and easy to control.

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 182
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2018, 02:00 AM »
I would highly recommend the following hand tool:



If you are unfamiliar, this is the venerable Linbide "General-Purpose" carbide hand scraper. I've had a couple of these (one general purpose and one corner) since the late 90's and I honestly don't know how I'd live or work without them. It may seem hard to believe, but the control that these tools permit (be it removing paint or other finish or removing thin layers of wood in a planing fashion) can come in incredibly handy. They are the first tool I reach for (in advance of a sander, plane, chisel, etc.) whenever I find myself needing to remove something like ahesive, caulk, putty, paint, varnish, poly, epoxy...you name it, these tools excel at the job. The only caveats I would remark on are to be careful around glass and porcelain (since the carbide will scratch glass) and and metals (if you are trying to preserve a finish) plus, if you are located in the U.S., to be mindful of the prohibitions in effect governing lead paint. In the case of the latter, when permitted, I employ a Viper Scraper with with water and dust collection.

A light touch will lead to wonderful results. Remove as little or as much as you wish and blade changes are quick and easy. The tools themselves (and the German-made OEM blades) are widely available from sellers on eBay and Amazon (and elsewhere). A quick google search will provide numerous options.

I recently screened and recoated some hardwood and softwood floors. As part of the prep, I mixed hardwood sawdust with epoxy to fill any areas that had failed since the first time I refinished the same floors (back in the late 1990's using the same technique). To knock off any ridges of hardened epoxy/sawdust I used the Linbide followed by light sanding. In another sreening/recoating project entirely I used the Linbide to remove silicone caulking that had been used to seal quarter-round to a hardwood floor (for energy efficiency purposes). I started out using an putty knife and a utility knife but once I transitioned to the Linbide, I finished four rooms-worth in less time than I'd spent on two walls, if that makes sense. These tools are indispensable in remodeling or historic renovation.

Linbide makes different versions (one for shiplap, others for radii, etc.) which you can learn more about here.       

In your case, I'd use the General Purpose scraper to deftly knock off the failed finish followed by light hand sanding, making sure to protect the glass using painters tape or just a length of paper board in one hand and the scraper (or sand paper/sanding block) in the other. A hand sanding block with integral dust collection (like those made by Mirka) would increase your efficiency - something like this or the Festool-branded equivalent would be ideal since only plastic would be contacting the glass.

Good luck! :)
« Last Edit: January 26, 2018, 02:03 AM by TinyShop »

Offline Alex

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Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2018, 03:04 AM »
Mask the glass with thick tape to prevent the sander from scratching it, and then use a DTS400 or a delta pad on the RO90 or a DX93.

But there's no way around it, this is never an easy job.

Offline RKA

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Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2018, 08:06 AM »
I’ll second the carbide scraper.  If you’re in the US, Bahco makes a two that work well and are comfortable to use. 
-Raj

Offline Goz

  • Posts: 90
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2018, 09:11 AM »
Another vote for a carbide scraper.  I have a couple different Bahco units (the 2 1/2" flat and the 1" interchangeable blade).  Between the two, I can get most anywhere. After scraping, the wood will require very little sanding, which can be done by hand.

I would caution you to be extremely careful around the glass. It's very easy to scratch, either with the scraper or sandpaper.  Some masking tape around the edges of each lite is a cheap insurance policy.

Good luck!

Offline MaxBoronovskis

  • Posts: 4
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2018, 11:14 AM »
Wow thanks for all the well considered answers!

I put an order in on the Linbide site and looking forward to trying them, especially the profiles would have been good to try on last window job.

I will also be visiting my local Mirka distributor, interested in looking at a few of those products. Probably get the 70x198 (or 125) vacuum hand sander and see how the hoses might fight to my cheap vac.

Those Mirka containers look like Festool systainers, is it same parent company? Are they compatible stacking with systainers.

Meantime will revisit the window with the RO 90 and delta pad and see how it goes.

Wondering if I'll be able get all the film off enough to go with a straight penetrating oil or what product to use? Something that will last and be easy to apply and maintain. Main issue is UV I think, maybe rain.

There are two more similar windows at a second story height. And two boards of trim under the eaves and two roof gables all that needs refinishing. Will attach photo from phone later.

Yes will use tape for the sanding and coating and be wary of scratching glass, thanks!

Thanks all!

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 5695
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2018, 01:37 PM »
I'd be careful with the carbide scraper, those are meant for loose paint, not for paint in good condition. If you try to remove good paint with a scraper it requires a lot of force and will scratch the wood also.

Those Mirka containers look like Festool systainers, is it same parent company? Are they compatible stacking with systainers.

The systainers are exactly the same and compatible between brands. All systainers are made by a company called Tanos, and Festool and Tanos are subsidiaries from the same parent company TTS. Mirka is a separate company and just orders their systainers from Tanos. Many other brands also do that.

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2018, 04:01 PM »
I second the comments on carbide scrapers. I have long relied on two SANDVIK in different sizes - very ergonomic.
And  SANDVIK knows scrapers, for sure, including cabinet scrapers.

the Sandvik 448 model has a 25mm triangular carbide blade (#449) which would seem to provide the right size and decent control
for this job. I would grind a flat on the edges so as to avoid cutting the glass.

My note on the tool says it came from Home Depot, no less, some years ago.

Hans
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Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions

Offline MaxBoronovskis

  • Posts: 4
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2018, 11:26 AM »
The RO90 delta head with 120 grit did a nice job on test patch, as did Makita cordless multitool which felt much more manoeuvrable (and lighter?) without vac hose attached. I used a simple triangle scraper also but I think the delta heads actually worked right up to the tape.

Will be replacing the failed film coating with a penetrating oil (Cutek extreme with a tint, for any Aussies reading)

darn those roof gables, they make the scaffolding cost 10x more!


Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 155
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2018, 02:31 PM »
Besides scrapers, an oscillating multi-tool is the best option for machine sanding muntins or anything else that butts up to glass.

Because it oscillates, you can run it with very little risk of scratching the glass compared to an RO type sander.

I also recommend applying 2-3 layers of blue tape before you start sanding or scraping to help prevent scratching the glass.


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Offline MaxBoronovskis

  • Posts: 4
Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2018, 06:14 PM »
Thanks PNW and thanks to all for the helpful comments, a great resource!

Offline TSO Products

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Re: Is there a sander for this kind of window trim (the muntins)?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2018, 08:49 PM »
Thanks PNW and thanks to all for the helpful comments, a great resource!

@MaxBoronovskis  - please post some pictures of your project in some stages of completion along with what worked well and what not so much.
We'll all learn  [wink]

Hans
TSOproducts.com

Home of the GRS-16 and GRS-16 PE Guide Rail Squares -  the MTR-18 Triangle and Work Holding solutions