Author Topic: Look for microfoaming solution  (Read 6312 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2017, 06:02 PM »
I am back with more questions.Today I tried sanding the surface flat without shines. Then set up my gun for 3 mils. Used to spray a glass ,a tile and the door. Still see some bubbles not a ton.

The sprayed surface on the door is not smooth at all . Any causes?

First few are tile and glass. Last is door.

Also how to fix if the sander cut to the bare wood on edges? I used orbital sander this time. Palm sander was too slow to sand.

Thank you for your help!


Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4715
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2017, 06:07 PM »
Let the door sit awhile before you judge it.

Tom

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3398
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2017, 09:33 AM »
The sprayed surface on the door is not smooth at all . Any causes?
It appears that dust from sanding is preventing the paint to flow properly and creating craters. Wash your panel with distilled water before you spray.
Based on the paint the craft paper, it looks like you are still spraying to much paint. Back off your fluid delivery until you have a very dry coat or minimum coverage and then turn it up until you get a nice oval shape that is solid in the middle. See the spray gun setup document here.


Also how to fix if the sander cut to the bare wood on edges? I used orbital sander this time. Palm sander was too slow to sand.
Use a hard pad on your orbital sander and go to the edge but stay away from running over the edge.
Tim


Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2017, 08:08 PM »
Tim and Tom, greatly appreciate your suggestions. I double/triple measured the mils and made sure KA+ is not over 3 mils and still got many pin holes. I will try wash the board tomorrow. How long I need let them dry? I found that the paint flow really well on glass but not on my doors. I still can see the orange peel from the side with dim light. It feels pretty smooth.

When I tested on the paper, I did get an oval shape and when I put the paper up, there are no runs. The papers on pictures are sprayed multiple times [smile] I will do it again tomorrow with pictures. Tonight I am going to read all the documentations.

Also I don't know why my bottom feed container cup leaks? I just changed the new gasket and plastic cover and problem still exists. One side of aircap has dried paint on it.

Just wondering how much will cost a professional to do a kitchen and an island with 50-60 doors.
Don't want to give up but really frustrated that we can't move in yet as I am so slow progressed [sad]
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 08:35 PM by usatu »

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3398
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2017, 09:25 PM »
I double/triple measured the mils and made sure KA+ is not over 3 mils and still got many pin holes.
I think you have proven that at 3 mils, you  are getting pin holes. Spray to 2 mils and see what happens.

I will try wash the board tomorrow. How long I need let them dry?

Just use a damp cloth, you just want to get any fine dust off the surface. Alternatively, you can use compressed air and blow it off, I just don't like this as it blows dust all over.

When I tested on the paper, I did get an oval shape and when I put the paper up, there are no runs.
That is good. You are in the range.

Also I don't know why my bottom feed container cup leaks? I just changed the new gasket and plastic cover and problem still exists. One side of aircap has dried paint on it.

Clean it up so it seals properly, it may make a difference. JC changed some seals in his gun and it seemed to have removed the pin holes he was getting in his paint. This Soy-Based Brush & Spray Gun Cleaner works very well. I dilute it slightly.

Just wondering how much will cost a professional to do a kitchen and an island with 50-60 doors.

I will let Tom answer...seriously it depends on where you are in the country, on site painting- do you need the cases painted, timing etc. Get some quotes from your local cabinet painters.

Don't want to give up but really frustrated that we can't move in yet as I am so slow progressed [sad]
If your family needs to move in I would definitely get some quotes and then discuss it with your significant other. You could be at this for several weeks. Sometimes discussing options makes the decisions easy.

Tim

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4715
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2017, 09:45 PM »
Which orbital sander.

Depending on temp and humidity it can be 24 hours before you'll know how it is tightening up. Not uncommon with waterbornes.

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2017, 10:39 PM »
I used Dewalt orbital sander. Sanded this morning and sprayed this afternoon. The orange peel yesterday looks still bad today. It is like little round bumps. Just curious, the wet door should look flat and shining when held up to a light 30-45 degrees aside?If so, I must did sth wrong. It reflects things alright when light is not too close above in certain angle. But if hold it closer to light, it just looks like the pictures. Glass or tile did flow and level better. I thought I sanded the surface deep enough though. How to verify my sanding job is complete?

Thanks and cheers

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 354
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2017, 10:41 PM »
Also I don't know why my bottom feed container cup leaks? I just changed the new gasket and plastic cover and problem still exists. One side of aircap has dried paint on it.
Isn't there a vent hole in the plastic piece to be positioned according to how your gun is being used?  Don't really know what kind of problem it'll cause if it's in the wrong position.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3398
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2017, 10:49 PM »
How to verify my sanding job is complete?
Wet it down with a damp cloth and use a single side or raking light to see the imperfections. Let dry and sand again if really bad. It doesn't have to be perfect as a good second and third coat will fill some minor undulations etc.
Tim
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 12:06 AM by Tim Raleigh »

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3398
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2017, 11:01 PM »
Also I don't know why my bottom feed container cup leaks? I just changed the new gasket and plastic cover and problem still exists. One side of aircap has dried paint on it.
Isn't there a vent hole in the plastic piece to be positioned according to how your gun is being used?  Don't really know what kind of problem it'll cause if it's in the wrong position.

If the vent hole in the air cap is at the 12 o'clock position rather than at 6 o'clock, it gets blocked up with paint if the cup is full when tilting the gun to spray. Blocking the air vent prevents the cup from being pressurized completely, reducing the flow of paint.
Tim

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2017, 11:46 PM »
I put the hole/tab close to air hose. In another words, when I tilt my cup, the paint won't enter the hole. Will do a thorough clean tomorrow and see.

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4715
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2017, 12:07 AM »
There is no vent it the T-70 or T-75 cup. They are positive pressurized systems not atmospheric systems.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 354
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2017, 06:31 AM »
There is no vent it the T-70 or T-75 cup. They are positive pressurized systems not atmospheric systems.

Tom
It isn't a vent to atmosphere but to allow the pressurized air from the lid to enter the side where the material is.  Plastic piece in image below.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 07:59 AM by wptski »
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 630
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2017, 08:00 AM »
Well after 12 hours of drying I woke up to a panel, 24"x24", that I sprayed with BM CC-518 escarpment gray, which many of you know that I have been having many problems spraying. I went from having a million pinholes and lumps to an absolute perfect panel with no flaws at all. A little orange peeling, but that's easy to fix. Also, as the pant cures longer it will tighten up some more.

Photos are pinhols to no pinholes. Same panel same paint.

I will try again this afternoon to see if I can get the same results 2 days in a row.

The coin is there so the camera can focus on a smooth surface.
Cheers,
JC

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4715
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2017, 08:46 AM »
There is no vent it the T-70 or T-75 cup. They are positive pressurized systems not atmospheric systems.

Tom
It isn't a vent to atmosphere but to allow the pressurized air from the lid to enter the side where the material is.  Plastic piece in image below.

(Attachment Link)

Not a vent, just a passage in the baffle for the air to flow. Two completely different "things". I know what it is like dealing with vented guns, it was a god send and a curse when I got my first dripless.

Knowing me, I'd loose (get rid of) that baffle.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 354
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2017, 09:00 AM »
Not a vent, just a passage in the baffle for the air to flow. Two completely different "things". I know what it is like dealing with vented guns, it was a god send and a curse when I got my first dripless.

Knowing me, I'd loose (get rid of) that baffle.

Tom
Yeah, I used the wrong wording.  Your T-70 doesn't have or come with a baffle?  I don't have a T-70 but the Gxpc but got the accessory side mounted 1 qt. cup kit but I think it's the same as a T-70 cup.  The baffle "could" be left out just have to watch the extreme gun angles and/or material height in the cup.
Bill
Most Confused!

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4715
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2017, 09:08 AM »
Not a vent, just a passage in the baffle for the air to flow. Two completely different "things". I know what it is like dealing with vented guns, it was a god send and a curse when I got my first dripless.

Knowing me, I'd loose (get rid of) that baffle.

Tom
Yeah, I used the wrong wording.  Your T-70 doesn't have or come with a baffle?  I don't have a T-70 but the Gxpc but got the accessory side mounted 1 qt. cup kit but I think it's the same as a T-70 cup.  The baffle "could" be left out just have to watch the extreme gun angles and/or material height in the cup.

I hunted down the cup last night so I could verify there was no vent. The baffle is in place, the cup has never had any fluid in it. Took it off and installed the PPS adapter before I use it the first time.

My X-g series guns do not have the baffle in the cup, I have a couple of original cups. These guns also have the PPS adapter on them.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 354
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2017, 09:17 AM »
I hunted down the cup last night so I could verify there was no vent. The baffle is in place, the cup has never had any fluid in it. Took it off and installed the PPS adapter before I use it the first time.

My X-g series guns do not have the baffle in the cup, I have a couple of original cups. These guns also have the PPS adapter on them.

Tom
There is no hole in the plastic baffle??  The OP's T-70 baffle does.
Bill
Most Confused!

Online tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4715
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2017, 09:27 AM »
I hunted down the cup last night so I could verify there was no vent. The baffle is in place, the cup has never had any fluid in it. Took it off and installed the PPS adapter before I use it the first time.

My X-g series guns do not have the baffle in the cup, I have a couple of original cups. These guns also have the PPS adapter on them.

Tom
There is no hole in the plastic baffle??  The OP's T-70 baffle does.

Yes, there is a hole in the baffle. The hole in the baffle is not a vent, it is a pressure passage.

The vents in siphon spray guns are to atmosphere.

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2017, 12:11 PM »
JC,really happy for you. Guess patience is key. My job does look better than just sprayed although still has some pin joles but not too crazy. How would you fix the orange peels I am so struggle with that. It looks like leather not glass. Thin more or make it thicker or open air valve wider?Should I buy 1.0
mm aircap set to get finer result. Thanks all for helping along the process.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 12:15 PM by usatu »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 354
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2017, 12:48 PM »

Yes, there is a hole in the baffle. The hole in the baffle is not a vent, it is a pressure passage.

The vents in siphon spray guns are to atmosphere.

Tom
Again I thought I used the wrong word or vent but maybe not.

Definition of vent is: an opening that allows air, gas, or liquid to pass out of or into a confined space.
synonyms: duct, flue, shaft, well, passage, airway; outlet, inlet, opening, aperture, hole, gap, orifice
"an air vent".

If you never remove that plastic baffle, it's very tight on the pickup tube so that's your confined space.  Buy it??
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2017, 02:38 PM »
Can you please let me know this needs sand more down and reapply surfacer or I can apply KA+ on it and paint will flow and then I sand again?

How about last two?Can I get way with it?
Thanks so much
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 02:46 PM by usatu »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 630
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2017, 02:44 PM »
It looks like you have a lot, small and large, of imperfections. If you are looking to get a flat finish you will need to make sure that all surfaces are free from defect and that the surfaces are sanded flat. It looks like you are painting old oak wood cabinets. If you don't want the grain pattern to show through the paint you will need to sand the oak down and apply some sort of grain filler to make the surface flat. Adding more paint won't flatten a surface. It will just magnify the defects.

Cheers,
JC

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2017, 02:58 PM »
My doors are maple. I did a bad job of the priming and sanding. What should I do now?sand with 220 to flat?The water trick does make things show. if dried and look like this,am I ok?

Last one is sanded Ka+,left side is OK with flat and dull?
 right side has a shining dots,is that Ok?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:14 PM by usatu »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 354
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2017, 11:50 AM »
Thanks all. Actually I put a dot on the knob so I can know how many turns I did:) Fully open takes 5-6 turns probably.

Should I adjust the fluid knob to reach 3 mils in one pass? Somehow if I set to shoot for 3 mils and get runs and drips for vertical surface. Maybe overspray gets on the surface? It is very hard to control. Will I be Ok to get between 2 and 3 mils and do an extra coat after flashing? I do see a hint of orange peel in certain angle.
Is the T-70 so much different than the Gxpc?  I asked Fiji how many turns to full open and they stated about three turns.

While cleaning one of my Gxpc's with a 1mm tip installed the other day.  If you pull the trigger back all the way, open the adjustment control the trigger moves back but can only move till it contacts the gun body.  Slowly adjusting, pulling the trigger, you can find the full open position.  I have a witness mark and full open is only 2 1/2 turns not 3.  Although the full closed position changes with tip size, a 1.8mm tip in my other Gxpc checked the same 2 1/2 turns.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 43
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2017, 04:33 PM »
Hello Bill start spraying and it will answer all questions
Hand Woodworking

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 354
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2017, 04:38 PM »
Hello Bill start spraying and it will answer all questions
If I had a T-70, I wouldn't be asking the question.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 43
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2017, 04:46 PM »
There really similar Bill, try a 2 1/2 turn starting point. How are you making out with your 5 stage Fuji?
Hand Woodworking

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2017, 07:39 PM »
I don't know how other gun works. Only own this one. I am sure it is more than 3 turns.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 07:52 PM by usatu »

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 43
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2017, 09:50 PM »
Kem Aqua plus not reduced with a 1.0 or 1.3 tip set you should never need to go more than 3 turns out.
I also usually reduce the air 25% using the ball valve at the gun, as not to get tiger stripping.
Try this setup and play with the automizing air and your spray speed

Thanks
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 09:55 PM by brewster201 »
Hand Woodworking