Author Topic: Look for microfoaming solution  (Read 7128 times)

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Offline usatu

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Look for microfoaming solution
« on: January 16, 2017, 07:06 PM »
Hi- I am spraying tinted Kem aqua plus white and added the enduro extender by about 5%. Viscosity cup from fuji hvlp measured @25 seconds with extender added while @35 seconds without. It has a lot of microfoaming going on.  I am trying to find out the root causes and fix the problem. Any suggestions are really appreciated!

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2017, 07:49 PM »
What air cap set do you have in the gun?

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2017, 07:54 PM »
I used the 1.3mm air cap set.
What air cap set do you have in the gun?

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2017, 07:58 PM »
Did you just shoot this?

How close are you, I find 8" is pretty good for KA+.

Shooting over Surface or bare substrate?

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2017, 08:07 PM »
Tom-Yes, I just did today. I sprayed around 6-7 inches? I didn't warm it today as I thought it is pretty thin @25 secs. Am I wrong? Room temperature is 65 degrees. Can you please let me know your settings? My fan setting is about 6 inches and 3 turns for fluid control from close. It is over surfacer which I put on a few days ago and sanded on last Saturday.

BTW, I tried to get 3 mils in one pass but can't so I shoot in different direction second times to reach 3 mils. Is that also problematic? I see micro-foaming regardless whether I do that or not.

Thanks so much!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 08:33 PM by usatu »

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 09:41 PM »
Your distance should be okay, try backing off a little see if it helps.

Viscosity should be okay.

I find wet over wet to be an issue. You're better off going with an extra coat.

I use a 1.0 air cap set, 2-3 turns from seated.

Tom

Offline wptski

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 10:22 PM »
All I can add I asked Fuji a while back how turns from seated is full open on a Gxpc gun and they stated, three turns.  I etched a witness mark on mine but its full seated position does change with each tip/nozzle set.
Bill
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Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 10:57 PM »
Thanks all. Actually I put a dot on the knob so I can know how many turns I did:) Fully open takes 5-6 turns probably.

Should I adjust the fluid knob to reach 3 mils in one pass? Somehow if I set to shoot for 3 mils and get runs and drips for vertical surface. Maybe overspray gets on the surface? It is very hard to control. Will I be Ok to get between 2 and 3 mils and do an extra coat after flashing? I do see a hint of orange peel in certain angle.
« Last Edit: January 16, 2017, 10:59 PM by usatu »

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 11:19 PM »
How are you checking the wet mils?

If it is running/sagging you're probably over 4 mils.

I overlap approximately 50% on each pass.

Tom

Offline usatu

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 08:26 AM »
I got a mill gauge to measure it. I sprayed on a sample board flat and then put it up to test.
Any good solutions to fix the pin holes in the base coat? Can I use the toothpick to dab a little KA+ white into the holes and then sand it? Thanks

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 08:34 AM »
How about a few pictures?

Tom

Offline usatu

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2017, 11:27 AM »
How about a few pictures?

Tom

The worst one so far in first pic. The ones I sprayed wet on my wet have less problems.
Also would you think that is orange peel(pic 3 and 4) and need redo?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 11:47 AM by usatu »

Offline JCLP

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2017, 12:26 PM »
The first photo looks like air getting trapped and popping through. I'm having the same problem and I was told to reduce the amount of air and back off from the surface. Also, you should be doing one pass when laying down paint, as I was told.
Cheers,
JC

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 01:04 PM »
Hi- I am spraying tinted Kem aqua plus white and added the enduro extender by about 5%.

Curious why are you adding extender? Do you need to thin the Kem Aqua? Which Fuji system/gun are you using to spray with?

Any good solutions to fix the pin holes in the base coat?

Sand the whole panel and respray.

Can I use the toothpick to dab a little KA+ white into the holes and then sand it? Thanks

You have nothing to loose trying it. Likely will have to respray any way.

Also would you think that is orange peel(pic 3 and 4) and need redo?

It looks like from the photo, you have sprayed it too thick and the surface is drying and then crazing (surface film is cracking) as the lower portions dry. Sand and redo.

Offline usatu

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 04:05 PM »
I just tried again with 8” distance and slightly less air time presuure. This time I got pin holes directly instead of bubbles. What will be the way to solvle this? Go further?I dont understand [crying] Thanks so much!

Toothpick trick works fine but takes a lot of time. Can I fill the pin holes while paint is still wet?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 04:08 PM by usatu »

Offline usatu

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2017, 05:19 PM »
The second coat is even worse. I fill the pin holes and wet sand andwith 400 grits and wipe ckean with water added DA. any step is messed up? Please help! I tried different distance and air flow , but it doesnt make much anddifference. Out of clues now.

Offline JCLP

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2017, 05:24 PM »
I use to get that when I sprayed on too thick. It will be interesting to see what Tom and Tim have to say.

As well, make sure the coat underneath has dried completely. If you sanded the previous coat vigorously, the heat created by the friction of the sandpaper may have soften the previous coat in some areas, thus causing contamination. I learned my lesson a lot time ago, and now I sand lightly.
Cheers,
JC

Offline kcufstoidi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2017, 06:48 PM »
I would start with a fresh piece of material, apply a SW primer, let dry and sand with 320P to knock the nibs off. Blow the piece off to remove the dust.  If you are stirring do so by hand and let set for at least 15 minutes before using. Make sure you're spraying at between 65 and 70 degrees. If you have to thin use water, 10% max. Spray a coat of top with no extender. This is my standard procedure for almost everything, the only disclaimer is I don't use a turbine gun, strictly compressor gravity PPS guns or AA and have very few issues.

John

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2017, 07:07 PM »
That is not micro foaming. Micro foaming is very, very tiny holes across the entire surface.

Best guess looking at the pictures you are spraying to heavy.

Don't wet sand, unnecessary. Sand between coats with 240 or 320 Granat. I use the ETS 125, DTS and RTS to sand between coats.

Just shot these. KA+ White Mid Gloss, tinted to match BM Navajo White, thin 2% by volume with GF Enduro Extender. T-70 bottom feed, 1.0 mm air cap set, can't tell you how many turns out on the needle, I set my gun by sound. Shop temp is somewhere around 65ºF.

Tom

Offline usatu

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2017, 07:45 PM »
The coat is @ 3mils. When you say too heavy, how do I get 3 mils without heavy coat? Should I thin the material little more or turn the fluid down a little? What kind of sound should I hear  [smile]?

I will sand (should I do 220 then 320 or just 320 will be fine) and recoat tomorrow.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2017, 07:57 PM »
The coat is @ 3mils. When you say too heavy, how do I get 3 mils without heavy coat? Should I thin the material little more or turn the fluid down a little? What kind of sound should I hear  [smile]?

I will sand (should I do 220 then 320 or just 320 will be fine) and recoat tomorrow.

That wet film looks heavier than 0.003" (3 mils). Shoot as you normally do, test the wet film, take a photo of the test area with the comb visible.

Don't thin the material, if anything go a little more viscous (thicker).

Best guess, decrease fluid to the nozzle.

Can't describe in words what it should sound like.

320

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2017, 08:21 PM »
This is what you should see when you test the wet film.

5 marks, the base mark on the far right, 4 notches to the left off the gauge base. This panels wet film is 4 mils (0.004").

Back to the sound---if you have ever welded, your ears tell you when you hit that sweet spot with the settings for the medium and material.

Tom

Offline usatu

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2017, 09:22 PM »
I can't say enough to thank you for your inputs. I will restart tomorrow till I get this right  [smile]

About sanding, I found my surfacer probably sprayed too thick/ thin and orange peel showed. Can I get away by sanding with 320? The entire surface should look even and dull? Now I found dull and shinier spots are blended together. Don't want to overkill it but am afraid that I might not sand enough.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2017, 09:37 PM »
Surfacer is one of the easiest things to spray. You want it to go on evenly, each coat can be hand sanded very easily. Make it smooth to touch. The second coat will be pretty smooth on its own.

If you want a really nice pure white, Surfacer with KA+ clear over it.

Tom

Offline usatu

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2017, 09:54 PM »
I sanded the surfacer very smooth to touch. Why it still looks like orange peel from certain angles? What does it suppose to look like? Glass without shine? I will post pictures tomorrow for diagnosis.  This group is so friendly and helpful.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2017, 09:57 PM by usatu »

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2017, 09:58 PM »
I sanded the surfacer very smooth to touch. Why it still looks like orange peel from certain angles? What does it suppose to look like? Glass without shine?

Should be flat.

Waterbourns need at least 12 hours to tighten up.

Tom

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2017, 07:46 AM »
I just tried again with 8” distance and slightly less air time presuure. This time I got pin holes directly instead of bubbles. What will be the way to solvle this

I agree, you are spraying to much paint! Do not box coat Kem Aqua it flashes off too fast. Dial back the fluid delivery knob.

When you spray too little you will get a dry spray or a very sandy gritty surface after the paint has dried.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2017, 09:36 AM by Tim Raleigh »

Offline wptski

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2017, 08:28 AM »
I'm confused which the norm for me but how did the OP spray too heavy if a wet film gauge was used, misread it somehow?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2017, 08:56 AM »
I'm confused which the norm for me but how did the OP spray too heavy if a wet film gauge was used, misread it somehow?

Believe it or not I had someone tell me they thought that the proper amount of wet film would fill the vertical space between the 3-4 mil notches. Look at your gauge, imagine trying to get a puddle that thick.

Looking at the posted photos, my guess is he's at 8+ mils. The pocks are at least 4 mils.

Tom




Offline wptski

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2017, 09:20 AM »
Believe it or not I had someone tell me they thought that the proper amount of wet film would fill the vertical space between the 3-4 mil notches. Look at your gauge, imagine trying to get a puddle that thick.

Looking at the posted photos, my guess is he's at 8+ mils. The pocks are at least 4 mils.

Tom
I think the first time I used my Graco Truecoat Pro II handheld it was that thick!  [eek]  It was 1x6's supported to do both sides and started to paddle wheel fling the paint.  [big grin]
Bill
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Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2017, 06:02 PM »
I am back with more questions.Today I tried sanding the surface flat without shines. Then set up my gun for 3 mils. Used to spray a glass ,a tile and the door. Still see some bubbles not a ton.

The sprayed surface on the door is not smooth at all . Any causes?

First few are tile and glass. Last is door.

Also how to fix if the sander cut to the bare wood on edges? I used orbital sander this time. Palm sander was too slow to sand.

Thank you for your help!


Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2017, 06:07 PM »
Let the door sit awhile before you judge it.

Tom

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #32 on: January 19, 2017, 09:33 AM »
The sprayed surface on the door is not smooth at all . Any causes?
It appears that dust from sanding is preventing the paint to flow properly and creating craters. Wash your panel with distilled water before you spray.
Based on the paint the craft paper, it looks like you are still spraying to much paint. Back off your fluid delivery until you have a very dry coat or minimum coverage and then turn it up until you get a nice oval shape that is solid in the middle. See the spray gun setup document here.


Also how to fix if the sander cut to the bare wood on edges? I used orbital sander this time. Palm sander was too slow to sand.
Use a hard pad on your orbital sander and go to the edge but stay away from running over the edge.
Tim


Offline usatu

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2017, 08:08 PM »
Tim and Tom, greatly appreciate your suggestions. I double/triple measured the mils and made sure KA+ is not over 3 mils and still got many pin holes. I will try wash the board tomorrow. How long I need let them dry? I found that the paint flow really well on glass but not on my doors. I still can see the orange peel from the side with dim light. It feels pretty smooth.

When I tested on the paper, I did get an oval shape and when I put the paper up, there are no runs. The papers on pictures are sprayed multiple times [smile] I will do it again tomorrow with pictures. Tonight I am going to read all the documentations.

Also I don't know why my bottom feed container cup leaks? I just changed the new gasket and plastic cover and problem still exists. One side of aircap has dried paint on it.

Just wondering how much will cost a professional to do a kitchen and an island with 50-60 doors.
Don't want to give up but really frustrated that we can't move in yet as I am so slow progressed [sad]
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 08:35 PM by usatu »

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2017, 09:25 PM »
I double/triple measured the mils and made sure KA+ is not over 3 mils and still got many pin holes.
I think you have proven that at 3 mils, you  are getting pin holes. Spray to 2 mils and see what happens.

I will try wash the board tomorrow. How long I need let them dry?

Just use a damp cloth, you just want to get any fine dust off the surface. Alternatively, you can use compressed air and blow it off, I just don't like this as it blows dust all over.

When I tested on the paper, I did get an oval shape and when I put the paper up, there are no runs.
That is good. You are in the range.

Also I don't know why my bottom feed container cup leaks? I just changed the new gasket and plastic cover and problem still exists. One side of aircap has dried paint on it.

Clean it up so it seals properly, it may make a difference. JC changed some seals in his gun and it seemed to have removed the pin holes he was getting in his paint. This Soy-Based Brush & Spray Gun Cleaner works very well. I dilute it slightly.

Just wondering how much will cost a professional to do a kitchen and an island with 50-60 doors.

I will let Tom answer...seriously it depends on where you are in the country, on site painting- do you need the cases painted, timing etc. Get some quotes from your local cabinet painters.

Don't want to give up but really frustrated that we can't move in yet as I am so slow progressed [sad]
If your family needs to move in I would definitely get some quotes and then discuss it with your significant other. You could be at this for several weeks. Sometimes discussing options makes the decisions easy.

Tim

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2017, 09:45 PM »
Which orbital sander.

Depending on temp and humidity it can be 24 hours before you'll know how it is tightening up. Not uncommon with waterbornes.

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2017, 10:39 PM »
I used Dewalt orbital sander. Sanded this morning and sprayed this afternoon. The orange peel yesterday looks still bad today. It is like little round bumps. Just curious, the wet door should look flat and shining when held up to a light 30-45 degrees aside?If so, I must did sth wrong. It reflects things alright when light is not too close above in certain angle. But if hold it closer to light, it just looks like the pictures. Glass or tile did flow and level better. I thought I sanded the surface deep enough though. How to verify my sanding job is complete?

Thanks and cheers

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2017, 10:41 PM »
Also I don't know why my bottom feed container cup leaks? I just changed the new gasket and plastic cover and problem still exists. One side of aircap has dried paint on it.
Isn't there a vent hole in the plastic piece to be positioned according to how your gun is being used?  Don't really know what kind of problem it'll cause if it's in the wrong position.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2017, 10:49 PM »
How to verify my sanding job is complete?
Wet it down with a damp cloth and use a single side or raking light to see the imperfections. Let dry and sand again if really bad. It doesn't have to be perfect as a good second and third coat will fill some minor undulations etc.
Tim
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 12:06 AM by Tim Raleigh »

Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2017, 11:01 PM »
Also I don't know why my bottom feed container cup leaks? I just changed the new gasket and plastic cover and problem still exists. One side of aircap has dried paint on it.
Isn't there a vent hole in the plastic piece to be positioned according to how your gun is being used?  Don't really know what kind of problem it'll cause if it's in the wrong position.

If the vent hole in the air cap is at the 12 o'clock position rather than at 6 o'clock, it gets blocked up with paint if the cup is full when tilting the gun to spray. Blocking the air vent prevents the cup from being pressurized completely, reducing the flow of paint.
Tim

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2017, 11:46 PM »
I put the hole/tab close to air hose. In another words, when I tilt my cup, the paint won't enter the hole. Will do a thorough clean tomorrow and see.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2017, 12:07 AM »
There is no vent it the T-70 or T-75 cup. They are positive pressurized systems not atmospheric systems.

Tom

Offline wptski

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2017, 06:31 AM »
There is no vent it the T-70 or T-75 cup. They are positive pressurized systems not atmospheric systems.

Tom
It isn't a vent to atmosphere but to allow the pressurized air from the lid to enter the side where the material is.  Plastic piece in image below.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 07:59 AM by wptski »
Bill
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Offline JCLP

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2017, 08:00 AM »
Well after 12 hours of drying I woke up to a panel, 24"x24", that I sprayed with BM CC-518 escarpment gray, which many of you know that I have been having many problems spraying. I went from having a million pinholes and lumps to an absolute perfect panel with no flaws at all. A little orange peeling, but that's easy to fix. Also, as the pant cures longer it will tighten up some more.

Photos are pinhols to no pinholes. Same panel same paint.

I will try again this afternoon to see if I can get the same results 2 days in a row.

The coin is there so the camera can focus on a smooth surface.
Cheers,
JC

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2017, 08:46 AM »
There is no vent it the T-70 or T-75 cup. They are positive pressurized systems not atmospheric systems.

Tom
It isn't a vent to atmosphere but to allow the pressurized air from the lid to enter the side where the material is.  Plastic piece in image below.

(Attachment Link)

Not a vent, just a passage in the baffle for the air to flow. Two completely different "things". I know what it is like dealing with vented guns, it was a god send and a curse when I got my first dripless.

Knowing me, I'd loose (get rid of) that baffle.

Tom

Offline wptski

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2017, 09:00 AM »
Not a vent, just a passage in the baffle for the air to flow. Two completely different "things". I know what it is like dealing with vented guns, it was a god send and a curse when I got my first dripless.

Knowing me, I'd loose (get rid of) that baffle.

Tom
Yeah, I used the wrong wording.  Your T-70 doesn't have or come with a baffle?  I don't have a T-70 but the Gxpc but got the accessory side mounted 1 qt. cup kit but I think it's the same as a T-70 cup.  The baffle "could" be left out just have to watch the extreme gun angles and/or material height in the cup.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2017, 09:08 AM »
Not a vent, just a passage in the baffle for the air to flow. Two completely different "things". I know what it is like dealing with vented guns, it was a god send and a curse when I got my first dripless.

Knowing me, I'd loose (get rid of) that baffle.

Tom
Yeah, I used the wrong wording.  Your T-70 doesn't have or come with a baffle?  I don't have a T-70 but the Gxpc but got the accessory side mounted 1 qt. cup kit but I think it's the same as a T-70 cup.  The baffle "could" be left out just have to watch the extreme gun angles and/or material height in the cup.

I hunted down the cup last night so I could verify there was no vent. The baffle is in place, the cup has never had any fluid in it. Took it off and installed the PPS adapter before I use it the first time.

My X-g series guns do not have the baffle in the cup, I have a couple of original cups. These guns also have the PPS adapter on them.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2017, 09:17 AM »
I hunted down the cup last night so I could verify there was no vent. The baffle is in place, the cup has never had any fluid in it. Took it off and installed the PPS adapter before I use it the first time.

My X-g series guns do not have the baffle in the cup, I have a couple of original cups. These guns also have the PPS adapter on them.

Tom
There is no hole in the plastic baffle??  The OP's T-70 baffle does.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2017, 09:27 AM »
I hunted down the cup last night so I could verify there was no vent. The baffle is in place, the cup has never had any fluid in it. Took it off and installed the PPS adapter before I use it the first time.

My X-g series guns do not have the baffle in the cup, I have a couple of original cups. These guns also have the PPS adapter on them.

Tom
There is no hole in the plastic baffle??  The OP's T-70 baffle does.

Yes, there is a hole in the baffle. The hole in the baffle is not a vent, it is a pressure passage.

The vents in siphon spray guns are to atmosphere.

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2017, 12:11 PM »
JC,really happy for you. Guess patience is key. My job does look better than just sprayed although still has some pin joles but not too crazy. How would you fix the orange peels I am so struggle with that. It looks like leather not glass. Thin more or make it thicker or open air valve wider?Should I buy 1.0
mm aircap set to get finer result. Thanks all for helping along the process.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 12:15 PM by usatu »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #50 on: January 20, 2017, 12:48 PM »

Yes, there is a hole in the baffle. The hole in the baffle is not a vent, it is a pressure passage.

The vents in siphon spray guns are to atmosphere.

Tom
Again I thought I used the wrong word or vent but maybe not.

Definition of vent is: an opening that allows air, gas, or liquid to pass out of or into a confined space.
synonyms: duct, flue, shaft, well, passage, airway; outlet, inlet, opening, aperture, hole, gap, orifice
"an air vent".

If you never remove that plastic baffle, it's very tight on the pickup tube so that's your confined space.  Buy it??
Bill
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Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #51 on: January 20, 2017, 02:38 PM »
Can you please let me know this needs sand more down and reapply surfacer or I can apply KA+ on it and paint will flow and then I sand again?

How about last two?Can I get way with it?
Thanks so much
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 02:46 PM by usatu »

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #52 on: January 20, 2017, 02:44 PM »
It looks like you have a lot, small and large, of imperfections. If you are looking to get a flat finish you will need to make sure that all surfaces are free from defect and that the surfaces are sanded flat. It looks like you are painting old oak wood cabinets. If you don't want the grain pattern to show through the paint you will need to sand the oak down and apply some sort of grain filler to make the surface flat. Adding more paint won't flatten a surface. It will just magnify the defects.

Cheers,
JC

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #53 on: January 20, 2017, 02:58 PM »
My doors are maple. I did a bad job of the priming and sanding. What should I do now?sand with 220 to flat?The water trick does make things show. if dried and look like this,am I ok?

Last one is sanded Ka+,left side is OK with flat and dull?
 right side has a shining dots,is that Ok?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2017, 03:14 PM by usatu »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2017, 11:50 AM »
Thanks all. Actually I put a dot on the knob so I can know how many turns I did:) Fully open takes 5-6 turns probably.

Should I adjust the fluid knob to reach 3 mils in one pass? Somehow if I set to shoot for 3 mils and get runs and drips for vertical surface. Maybe overspray gets on the surface? It is very hard to control. Will I be Ok to get between 2 and 3 mils and do an extra coat after flashing? I do see a hint of orange peel in certain angle.
Is the T-70 so much different than the Gxpc?  I asked Fiji how many turns to full open and they stated about three turns.

While cleaning one of my Gxpc's with a 1mm tip installed the other day.  If you pull the trigger back all the way, open the adjustment control the trigger moves back but can only move till it contacts the gun body.  Slowly adjusting, pulling the trigger, you can find the full open position.  I have a witness mark and full open is only 2 1/2 turns not 3.  Although the full closed position changes with tip size, a 1.8mm tip in my other Gxpc checked the same 2 1/2 turns.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 43
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2017, 04:33 PM »
Hello Bill start spraying and it will answer all questions
Hand Woodworking

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #56 on: January 21, 2017, 04:38 PM »
Hello Bill start spraying and it will answer all questions
If I had a T-70, I wouldn't be asking the question.
Bill
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Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 43
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #57 on: January 21, 2017, 04:46 PM »
There really similar Bill, try a 2 1/2 turn starting point. How are you making out with your 5 stage Fuji?
Hand Woodworking

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #58 on: January 21, 2017, 07:39 PM »
I don't know how other gun works. Only own this one. I am sure it is more than 3 turns.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 07:52 PM by usatu »

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 43
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #59 on: January 21, 2017, 09:50 PM »
Kem Aqua plus not reduced with a 1.0 or 1.3 tip set you should never need to go more than 3 turns out.
I also usually reduce the air 25% using the ball valve at the gun, as not to get tiger stripping.
Try this setup and play with the automizing air and your spray speed

Thanks
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 09:55 PM by brewster201 »
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Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3409
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #60 on: January 21, 2017, 09:56 PM »
I don't know how other gun works. Only own this one. I am sure it is more than 3 turns.

Turns are irrelevant, getting the proper coverage is the goal. Each needle and coating on different days will have different positions.
Start with the fluid control knob turned all the way down so there is no spray and turn half or quarter turns until you get a nice tight oval with no splatter. Stop there. Don't go further. Spray your test panel. Wait for an hour for it to set up and dry. Adjust accordingly.
Tim

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Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #61 on: January 21, 2017, 10:23 PM »
I am confused that more than 3 mils coat or thin (less than 3) and wet coat is better?

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 376
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #62 on: January 21, 2017, 11:25 PM »
There really similar Bill, try a 2 1/2 turn starting point. How are you making out with your 5 stage Fuji?
I only have two Gxpc guns, a Q4 Gold, no T-70 and no five stage Fuji.  At 2 1/2 turns a Gxpc is fully open.  I looked up the parts, the Gxpc and T-70 use a different flow control knob so they have a different thread.  In order to have 5-6 turns of adjustment it would have to be a much finer thread which seems highly unlikely.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 644
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2017, 10:18 AM »
Well. The spray gods have given up trying to cause me pain and suffering. Sprayed 2 panels yesterday, each 18"x24" and they turn out beautiful. No pinholes, no orange peel, no lumps/grit.

Sprayed BM Select Regal, CC-518 Escarpment grey, 20% thinning with BM Extender product, no water.

BM Extender is 100% acrylic resin which is the same stuff used in their acrylic paints. It thins a little bit but mostly it conditions the paint for better flow. Sprayed with Fuji Q5, 1.3mm needle and cap, full air.

I did try Advance again and it turned out awful. I will continue to use Advance but only when I am brushing or rolling it on. Now when I get my AAA setup, this may change.

Next test is Sherwin Williams Pro Classic Waterborne Arcylic Enamel with Benjami Moore Extender product. Stayed tuned.

Cheers,
JC



Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 43
Re: Look for microfoaming solution
« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2017, 04:04 PM »
Congrats we are all happy for you  [smile] , you have the spray bug.
Just keep trying the Kem Aqua plus lol


Bruce
Hand Woodworking