Author Topic: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4  (Read 6634 times)

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Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 1022
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« on: September 16, 2017, 03:28 PM »
I just started Phase One of painting my kitchen cabinets.  I built them in '96 and painstakingly painted them by hand and vowed to never do it again.  About 8 years ago, when they first needed repainting, I hired a professional but was aghast by how much he charged me.  I didn't think his paint lasted as long as my first paint job, it's only 8 years later and they are filthy and worn.  I figured with the money I saved my doing it myself, I could justify the cost of a Fuji Mini-Mite 4 and I'm sure glad I did.

When I first painted them by hand, I would brush on one side, lay them out on a table to dry, turn it over to paint the other side.  With over 40 drawer fronts and doors, I can't tell you how long it took me.  Not to mention the horizontal real estate in my shop they consumed.

 I purchased my sprayer about a year ago and took this time to hone my technique and find the best paint combo before I would try painting my cabinets.  After several days of cleaning and sanding, I first sprayed BIN shellac based primer unthinned using the 1.3 tip.  After it dried I carefully hand sanded with 180 grit 3M sanding sponges.  Gave them a good vacuuming with my CT.  This morning, I applied the first of two coats of Ben Moore ADVANCE alkyd waterborne paint.  I added Floetrol and thinned with wiper fluid and sprayed with the larger 1.8 tip. 

I must say, even after only one coat, I couldn't be happier with the finish.  It's almost like an automotive finish, certainly the smoothest finish I've ever achieved.  I'm not even sure I need a second coat.
 
The other great thing I did was used cup hooks and coat hangers to spray and hang dry vertically.  I won't bother filling the holes created by the cup hooks, I located them on the bottom of the drawer fronts and base cabinet doors, on top for the upper doors.  They will be completely out of sight.  I can't take credit for this idea, I copied it from a friend and even borrowed his coat hangers.  Worked great!  Anyone out there thinking of doing the same, I have no regrets, do it!






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Offline mrFinpgh

  • Posts: 235
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2017, 04:18 PM »
That looks excellent - can't wait to  see the final product.  We have the same sprayer, and I hope I can get results like yours.  How much did you thin the Advance to shoot it through a 1.8 tip?




Offline ben_r_

  • Posts: 821
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2017, 04:28 PM »
Wow, that's pretty cool. Thinking I might pick up a Mini-Mite 4 this Black Friday.
If at first you don't succeed, redefine success!

Online Bob D.

  • Posts: 703
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2017, 04:30 PM »
I know next to nothing about finishing, and even less about spraying,
but I would like to learn, so please explain the use of 'wiper fluid'.

I like your temporary spray booth, and I can feel for the time it took to
paint all those cabinet piece parts with a brush, because I have done the
same when I built a new island. I had no spray equipment and I knew that
'learning' on a project of this importance was not the way to go, so I chose
a method by which I knew I could get decent results, though no where near
as good as sprayed. They didn't turn out bad, but I would like to do better
next time.

-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2017, 08:40 PM »
Glad it worked out for you
I would NEVER spray doors verticaly, just spray them horizontally and rack
They level out perfect! No one sprays door like that!
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 08:49 PM by brewster201 »
Hand Woodworking

Offline bkharman

  • Posts: 1939
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2017, 11:08 PM »
With wiper fluid, the ammonia dries away without impacting the paint. Temporary way to make it lay down better

Cheers. Bryan.


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People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along? Can we get along?

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 1022
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2017, 06:05 AM »
Glad it worked out for you
I would NEVER spray doors verticaly, just spray them horizontally and rack
They level out perfect! No one sprays door like that!
I do.    My way I can spray both sides at the same time.  Your way you have to wait for one side to dry.  With ADVANCE paint they recommend 16 hours between coats.  Additionally, it takes several weeks for the finish to harden up.   I'd be worried about impressions left by the drying rack bars.  Do automotive painters flip cars on their sides to paint?  There are 10 ways to skin a cat, there's no right way.


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« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 06:46 AM by Jim Kirkpatrick »

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 1022
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 07:09 AM »
That looks excellent - can't wait to  see the final product.  We have the same sprayer, and I hope I can get results like yours.  How much did you thin the Advance to shoot it through a 1.8 tip?

I forgot to mention, I use the 3m pps system.  I can't say enough about this.  It replaces the standard cup with disposable inserts.  The beauty is there is a filter built into the lid so no more straining and no more messy cup cleanup.  That said, plan on spending another 200 on it with all the adaptors and accessories you need.  Money well spent.
To answer your question about thinning, there are plastic film inserts with graduated lines and ratios that fit between the outer and inner cup.  My friend that loaned me the hangers told me he thinned ten percent.  I remember reading that Ben Moore recommends six percent.  I'm no chemist so just winged it.  I chose the 8:1:1 ratio on the insert.  8 paint, 1 floetrol, 1 wiper fluid.  It happened to work out correct


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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5305
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 08:50 AM »
Glad it worked out for you
I would NEVER spray doors verticaly, just spray them horizontally and rack
They level out perfect! No one sprays door like that!
I do.    My way I can spray both sides at the same time.  Your way you have to wait for one side to dry.  With ADVANCE paint they recommend 16 hours between coats.  Additionally, it takes several weeks for the finish to harden up.   I'd be worried about impressions left by the drying rack bars.  Do automotive painters flip cars on their sides to paint?  There are 10 ways to skin a cat, there's no right way.


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There is a rack system that allows you to spray flat and flip the panels while wet to spray the other side (even with Advance).

I totally agree there are many ways to get the products sprayed. Flat decreases the risk of runs, but increases the risk of airborne things getting in the finish.

The doors look good by the way.

To answer the question about flipping cars on their side---yes (at times).

From my previous career. 268804-0

Adaption of the process to what I do now. 268806-1268808-2

One of many completed.

Tom

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 08:57 AM »
Hello just some ideas try Kem Aqua plus, can be tinted most colours and dries in 40min to recoat. We have discussed all of this before
I find BM Advance takes forever to Harden, doesn't sand well to prep for a second coat and really not suitable for doors compared to a pigmented Lacquer such as SW Kem Aqua plus.
BM takes way too long by the time you spray two coats and let dry
Buy a gallon, no thinning 1.2-1.4 tip and reduce the air. Smooth as butter, hard durable finish

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 09:08 AM by brewster201 »
Hand Woodworking

Online Bob D.

  • Posts: 703
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 10:44 AM »
Is that a Pantera ?
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 1022
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 11:51 AM »
Hello just some ideas try Kem Aqua plus, can be tinted most colours and dries in 40min to recoat. We have discussed all of this before
I find BM Advance takes forever to Harden, doesn't sand well to prep for a second coat and really not suitable for doors compared to a pigmented Lacquer such as SW Kem Aqua plus.
BM takes way too long by the time you spray two coats and let dry
Buy a gallon, no thinning 1.2-1.4 tip and reduce the air. Smooth as butter, hard durable finish

Thanks

I do want to try Kem Aqua but lately I've been reading here about problems with viscosity.  Also my buddy with the hangers recommended Advance so I had to oblige.  He cautioned me about the initial softness but I found it to be harder than I thought.  Also, I just applied the second coat and found it to sand like any other latex paint. 
I do like the sound of lacquer though and spraying without thinning is a huge plus.  IIRC, my local SW doesn't stock it but told me they would order it for me.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5305
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2017, 11:56 AM »
Is that a Pantera ?

Yes, that one is a 74 GTS, twin turbocharged 351.

72-L model

70-push button.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5305
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #13 on: September 17, 2017, 11:58 AM »
Hello just some ideas try Kem Aqua plus, can be tinted most colours and dries in 40min to recoat. We have discussed all of this before
I find BM Advance takes forever to Harden, doesn't sand well to prep for a second coat and really not suitable for doors compared to a pigmented Lacquer such as SW Kem Aqua plus.
BM takes way too long by the time you spray two coats and let dry
Buy a gallon, no thinning 1.2-1.4 tip and reduce the air. Smooth as butter, hard durable finish

Thanks

I do want to try Kem Aqua but lately I've been reading here about problems with viscosity.  Also my buddy with the hangers recommended Advance so I had to oblige.  He cautioned me about the initial softness but I found it to be harder than I thought.  Also, I just applied the second coat and found it to sand like any other latex paint. 
I do like the sound of lacquer though and spraying without thinning is a huge plus.  IIRC, my local SW doesn't stock it but told me they would order it for me.

Your BM dealer may carry Lenmar. Similar to KA but owned by BM.

Full coalesce is minimum of 30 days.

Tom

Offline JBag09

  • Posts: 178
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2017, 12:54 PM »
+1 on KemAqua Plus. With a lot of help from Tom, I've done pretty well with it so far. Have been using a 1.5 tip, gonna try a 1.0 to see if that eliminates some of the "splatter" I get. But otherwise I love working with it.


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Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

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    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 02:47 PM »
Can you brush kem aqua or Lenmar?  Reason I ask is I have to brush on the paint on the installed cabinets


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Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 03:03 PM »
Hello Kem Aqua is spray only, I usually sponge roll the cabinets if I can't masking spray. You can use BM Advance or SW Pro Classic

Thanks
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 03:11 PM by brewster201 »
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Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

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    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 12:42 PM »
I just came from my ben Moore store and was told lenmar can not be tinted,  its a clear polyurethene

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5305
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2017, 01:40 PM »
I just came from my ben Moore store and was told lenmar can not be tinted,  its a clear polyurethene

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Tell them they're full of it. Lenmar can be matched to any BM color by stock formula and custom color matched.

http://www.lenmar-coatings.com/product-detail/pro/lenmar/duralaq-wb-waterborne-acrylic-white-finish

http://www.lenmar-coatings.com/category-listing/pro/waterbornefinishsystems

Tom
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 01:42 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

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    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #19 on: September 18, 2017, 02:15 PM »
I thought so to.  But therein lies the problem.  Lenmar is a line of coatings ranging from waterborne lacquer to polyurethenes.  I simply asked if they stocked any "Lenmar".  What I should of asked for is if they had any Lenmar "White Duralaq Acryllic"
But I agree, the women should have known this, she hadn't even heard of Kem-Aqua.  Thanks, Tom  Even if they stocked it, I'd be worried about them color matching it.  I think I'll stick with Advance for this project, which BTW seems very hard having only sprayed it yesterday.  Much harder than any latex paint I've used.

Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 117
My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2017, 12:46 AM »
When given enough time to cure Advance becomes very hard. In many cases I believe that it takes much longer than 30 days for Advance to reach its maximum hardness.


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Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 81
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2017, 12:47 PM »
Glad it worked out for you
I would NEVER spray doors verticaly, just spray them horizontally and rack
They level out perfect! No one sprays door like that!

I use the coat hanger method.  It works a treat.  No runs if you apply thin coats.  Less dust / bugs landing on the faces while drying.  Can do both sides at once.  A ladder on two saw horses becomes an instant drying rack (can easily fit 3-4 doors per ladder rung).  Can easily move wet doors around without worrying about where to grab.  No need to plug the hook holes if you choose their positions carefully, so can quickly put the hooks back in and add another coat in a few years time.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 739
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2017, 02:23 PM »
Hi Jim,

Wanted to let you know that Tom is correct. the Duralac product can be tinted to any BM colour but because the bases are different then those from BM directly, you need to find a dealer that knows how to do this. I found a dealer in the states that has formulas for tinting the duralac products to match the most popular BM products. Most BM retailers do not know how to do this.
Also, I have the same setup that you do, except I have a Q5 which I dial down to match the output of the 4 stage from Fuji. Using the PPS system as well, I found that I can spray Advance and Select Regal, which is thicker, without any thinning with a 1.8mil needle. If you don't thin it will dry faster and risk orange peel. So I add 5% of water for Advance and 5% BM extender for Select Regal and I get a perfect finish.
These 2 paints don't like air at all. The less air you can introduce to the paint the better the results.

Thought I would share,
JC

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 1022
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2017, 04:31 PM »
Thanks @JCLP , for your tips on spraying.  How much air do you suppress?  Say if wide open on the hose valve is 12:00 and fully closed is 3:00, what time do you recommend?

The first coat I brushed on my base cabinets this morning has dried.  I'm amazed how slippery smooth it is.  Advance gets a lot of knocks around here but I think it's a great paint.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 04:39 PM by Jim Kirkpatrick »

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 81
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2017, 04:42 PM »
I just re-read the initial post.  I have a chemistry related issue with thinning waterborne alkyd or latex with wiper fluid for spraying.  I've seen this method mentioned in some forums, particularly in hobby model painting and woodworking circles.  Some points to consider:

1) The purpose of adding a conditioner like Floetrol is to slow the dry time, allowing the atomized paint droplets enough time to lay out on the surface and level back into a flat layer.

2) Adding ~10% water is necessary to lower the viscosity of these thicker paints that are designed for brushing / rolling, allowing adequate flow through the gun and atomization to occur.

3) Thinning the paint will make it dry faster.

With these facts in mind, here's my issue:  adding a thinning agent that has a faster evaporation rate than water defeats the function of the paint conditioner (which is trying to slow down the drying rate).  So while washer fluid may in fact work, you're better off sticking with water to allow adequate leveling.  Is my reasoning correct?
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 04:51 PM by QuailRider43 »

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 1022
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2017, 05:02 PM »
@QuailRider43 ,  You say thinning the paint makes it dry faster, JC said it drys slower.  Some hang their work pieces vertically while others swear by horizontal.  Some thin with water while others thin with wiper fluid.  Some like Kem Aqua,  others like Duralaq and on and on.  There's no right or wrong way, ask my wife, according to her I'm wrong 99% of the time.  Advance is known on this forum for being problematic in many ways.  The whole point of my post was to show the methods that I used to get a very successful result.  Take it or leave it.

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #26 on: September 20, 2017, 05:52 PM »
Looks great Jim, nice to see the progress



Hand Woodworking

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 81
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2017, 06:21 PM »
Not criticizing, just learning. I like understanding why the paint behaves the way it does, so hard work doesn’t go pear shaped due to some unforeseen factor. I considered washer fluid myself before, but then I read about how it can affect the conditioner, so I reconsidered. I enjoyed reading about your project.

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 61
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2017, 07:41 PM »
Ok open to criticism lol From my experience WHY try to thin when you can spray right from the can. There should be NO--- talk on mixing, diluting just try Kem Aqua plus
If your that naive on trying to spray BW Advance I give up. Spend $40 bucks on a gallon and try it
Use BM Advance on the cabinets using a sponge roller and spray the doors with SW Kem Aqua +
From experience BM Advanced will not stand up to daily abuse on the doors! Try the nail test
Pre spray with Bin shellac primer

Try to move forward not backward and listen from experience!!
I moved on from a Fuji 4 stage, then a 3m system, then a Cat stainless pressure pot and finally to a AAA Kremlin 15-25 pump/excite gun
It is all an evolution to try to get better
Just trying to help
Thanks
Bruce
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 08:28 PM by brewster201 »
Hand Woodworking

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5305
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: My Paint Spray Setup with a Fuji MiniMite 4
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2017, 08:21 PM »
Just to throw another wrench in the gears....

Minwax Ploycrylic is a great thinner for acrylic paints.

Tom