Author Topic: New Handheld Technology  (Read 8208 times)

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Offline wptski

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2017, 09:13 AM »
I've never heard of the phrase ‘hot’ solvent based product. Anyone care to enlighten? What's the difference from good ol' solvent based paints/stains/varnishes?
Probably means flammable vs combustible.
Bill
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Offline tjbnwi

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2017, 11:12 AM »
I've never heard of the phrase ‘hot’ solvent based product. Anyone care to enlighten? What's the difference from good ol' solvent based paints/stains/varnishes?

Probably means post catalyzed, I'm not sure. See paragraph #3.

http://www.ronbryze.com/finishing_information/CatalyzedFinishes.pdf

Like setting type drywall compounds are called "hot mud".

Tom

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2017, 05:31 PM »
I'd probably take it to mean any product that I wouldn't atomize and stand with a flame next to.

From the Graco website (and just my own interpretation):


Offline Scott Burt

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #33 on: May 07, 2017, 06:42 AM »
This is my written overview of the 2017 Graco handhelds. It includes a video shot by Tools of the Trade at JLC Live this year.

Thought I would share here in case members were curious about it.

Happy to answer questions about it.

http://topcoatreview.com/2017/05/graco-ultra-handheld-airless-sprayer/

Online Cheese

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #34 on: May 07, 2017, 09:17 AM »
This is my written overview of the 2017 Graco handhelds.
Thought I would share here in case members were curious about it.

Happy to answer questions about it.

http://topcoatreview.com/2017/05/graco-ultra-handheld-airless-sprayer/

Thanks for the informative review Scott.  [big grin]  Every operation with this new gun seems to be simplified and easier to perform.

I have a Binks HVLP setup but it's a PITA to use for small projects, so I usually bring out the brush, roller or worse yet, the rattle can. I would expect this gun to cover 70-80% of my finishing needs.   [cool]

Interested in your thoughts on overspray and bounce back?

Offline neilc

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #35 on: May 07, 2017, 09:31 AM »
Nice upgrade!  I have the previous model and these are all nice improvements.  How is cleaning this gun, Scott?

Offline JBag09

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New Handheld Technology
« Reply #36 on: May 07, 2017, 10:12 AM »
I have heard a lot of great things about these spray guns. They seem like the perfect thing to take along to refinish kitchen cabinets on site.
 My only concern is, are they capable of spraying todays latex primers and paints? Like SW wall&wood or ProClassic without a huge amount of thinning


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Offline Tim Raleigh

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #37 on: May 07, 2017, 11:57 AM »
My only concern is, are they capable of spraying todays latex primers and paints? Like SW wall&wood or ProClassic without a huge amount of thinning

Zero thinning required.
These airless guns are designed to spray this stuff or rather this paint is designed to be sprayed with an airless, and it leaves an amazing finish.
Tim

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #38 on: May 07, 2017, 12:28 PM »
Thanks for the feedback and questions.

No thinning required. In the video, I am shooting unthinned acrylic (ProClassic I believe).

Below is another vid showing more of a vertical demo with unthinned latex.

Cleaning is real easy with the new liners. You can just toss them (they are inexpensive) or clean them out easily. One quick flush of about a half cup gets the pump clean, then just clean tip.




Offline Dovetail65

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #39 on: May 07, 2017, 12:29 PM »
Oh man, I may have to trade in my TrueCoat Plus II. I'm mostly spraying small things when I spray, but I can't keep up with the amount of paint it puts out.
That's a bit vague!  Trade In means return something but there's no mention of returning anything.  Do they want proof of purchase on the trade in as well?  I sure don't have that.  The web address mentioned in the PDF is there but not fully functional yet.

I took it to mean he is going to sell it off, when I say time to trade up that's what I am talking about. To ebay or the forum the stuff goes.
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2017, 12:43 PM »
Oh man, I may have to trade in my TrueCoat Plus II. I'm mostly spraying small things when I spray, but I can't keep up with the amount of paint it puts out.
That's a bit vague!  Trade In means return something but there's no mention of returning anything.  Do they want proof of purchase on the trade in as well?  I sure don't have that.  The web address mentioned in the PDF is there but not fully functional yet.

I took it to mean he is going to sell it off, when I say time to trade up that's what I am talking about. To ebay or the forum the stuff goes.

There is a trade in credit that I know many users have taken advantage of. Check with your local dealer.

Offline wptski

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2017, 01:11 PM »
Oh man, I may have to trade in my TrueCoat Plus II. I'm mostly spraying small things when I spray, but I can't keep up with the amount of paint it puts out.
The tip guard on a TCPII can be modified to use "any" RAC X spray tip.  I do have two of the new FFLP tips but haven't tried them in my modified TCPII yet.

One thing about this new line is there isn't any option to use a 1 gallon pressure pot like Graco offered on the TCPII and other models so it's either small jobs or swap with spare cups.
Bill
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Offline Scott Burt

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2017, 01:15 PM »
Oh man, I may have to trade in my TrueCoat Plus II. I'm mostly spraying small things when I spray, but I can't keep up with the amount of paint it puts out.
The tip guard on a TCPII can be modified to use "any" RAC X spray tip.  I do have two of the new FFLP tips but haven't tried them in my modified TCPII yet.

One thing about this new line is there isn't any option to use a 1 gallon pressure pot like Graco offered on the TCPII and other models so it's either small jobs or swap with spare cups.

I don't think it is a good idea to recommend tip saddle modification. These sprayers are under a lot of pressure and it is really not worth the risk of an oopsie moment. Injection wounds are miserable. The tips on the previous generations were fine, they were just not interchangeable with other types of sprayers. That is the big difference now.

Correct on the backpack, it has been discontinued. Apparently there were not enough users interested in the option. Kind of makes sense.

Offline wptski

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2017, 03:00 PM »
I don't think it is a good idea to recommend tip saddle modification. These sprayers are under a lot of pressure and it is really not worth the risk of an oopsie moment. Injection wounds are miserable. The tips on the previous generations were fine, they were just not interchangeable with other types of sprayers. That is the big difference now.

Correct on the backpack, it has been discontinued. Apparently there were not enough users interested in the option. Kind of makes sense.
Not much different than using any other airless sprayer.  I've received shots using a needle-less high pressure inoculation gun in the military.  That guy kind-of butcher his up!

The original YouTube video of the mod from a painter in the UK eliminated the locking feature of the spray tips but I only removed the plastic from the right side(viewed from the top) keeping the lock feature.

Using a little bit of PVC pipe, one can make a remote pot of any size cup as their BackPack PP use the same thread as their cups, just need a shorter pickup tube which sure lightens the load on the wrist(I watch you guys supporting the cup with a free hand).  I've got a setup to use a TCPII with a 2 1/2 gallon pressure pot.
Bill
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Offline Scott Burt

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2017, 03:17 PM »
That is all well and good, Bill. But still, it is irresponsible where pressurized fluids are being atomized.

In this day and age, it is not necessary to frankenstein things and risk a problem that could result in injury.

The last thing I want is for someone less experienced and capable than you seem to be, to go and do a modification that you recommend on a thread on the FOG and have an injury result.

Unfortunately, if people see or hear something on the internet, they assume it is a safe and acceptable practice. Modifying tip guards isn't...even if a painter from the UK did it on youtube and you liked the idea.

We can agree, or we can agree to disagree on that...but it is most important that safe spraying be a priority for folks.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2017, 03:21 PM by Scott Burt »

Offline neilc

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #45 on: May 07, 2017, 05:56 PM »
Scott - on cleaning.  My gun is typically a mess from overspray.  I have even held it with my hand and the gun in a large plastic freezer bag and cut out the corner for the tip to make cleaning the gun easier.

Curious if you had that experience with your old Graco, and if this one does a better job of reducing overspray back on the gun.

I first rented them from Home Depot and ended up buying one.  But the guy at Home Depot always complained that cleaning them up was a pain and I found the same thing on my rented and owned one.

Thanks!

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #46 on: May 07, 2017, 06:20 PM »
Scott - on cleaning.  My gun is typically a mess from overspray.  I have even held it with my hand and the gun in a large plastic freezer bag and cut out the corner for the tip to make cleaning the gun easier.

Curious if you had that experience with your old Graco, and if this one does a better job of reducing overspray back on the gun.

I first rented them from Home Depot and ended up buying one.  But the guy at Home Depot always complained that cleaning them up was a pain and I found the same thing on my rented and owned one.

Thanks!

Hey Neil

A lot of that (how messy the gun gets) has to do with technique. The amount of overspray that we create is often a reflection of our trigger engagement habits. Think of every pass you do as having an entry and exit. In other words, on the "turnarounds" (the in between moves of each pass), coming off the trigger right at the end of each pass instead of staying engaged during the turnaround radically reduces overspray. That is just one example. We also recommend taking a quick moment during the spray session to put a wet tooth brush and rag treatment on the gun. It is easier to clean before it cakes up.

That said, there is always cleaning to do. On larger pump based machines, cleaning the pump takes much more time than cleaning the gun. Gun cleaning is pretty quick and easy. On a 395 sized pump with a g40 gun, it is about 20 minutes including pulling all 3 filters and the inlet tube and ball valve assembly.

We have to keep in mind how much time spraying saves us over brushing or other methods. I will gladly put 20-30 minutes into cleaning because I am getting better results in my finish so much faster.

Cleaning the handheld sprayers takes about 10 minutes typically.

Here's a time lapse of a full on cleaning of a 395:


Offline wptski

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #47 on: May 07, 2017, 09:09 PM »
That is all well and good, Bill. But still, it is irresponsible where pressurized fluids are being atomized.

In this day and age, it is not necessary to frankenstein things and risk a problem that could result in injury.

The last thing I want is for someone less experienced and capable than you seem to be, to go and do a modification that you recommend on a thread on the FOG and have an injury result.

Unfortunately, if people see or hear something on the internet, they assume it is a safe and acceptable practice. Modifying tip guards isn't...even if a painter from the UK did it on youtube and you liked the idea.

We can agree, or we can agree to disagree on that...but it is most important that safe spraying be a priority for folks.
If that were the case there'd be no such thing as R&D these days!

Using the standard tips/guards of .015" or .017", unless the object is small, better have your track shoes on, it's that or you'll end up with runs.  The tips are the same O.D. so there's no issue, I've done it, used it and using a .013" is much better.

We come from different camps, you are supplied with new products to try, don't have the time what I do, much of which requires some machining mostly metal lathe work.  The tip guard mod only requires a sharp pocket but I guess one could stab themselves but one can do that while cutting a thick steak too.  Lastly, if it wasn't safe to operate, I wouldn't suggest it.
Bill
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Offline Scott Burt

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #48 on: May 08, 2017, 07:32 AM »
Bill

It is not so much the act of cutting the tip guard to modify it to receive tips it was not designed for that is dangerous...it is the risk of users pulling the trigger with an improperly fitted tip barrel and the potential for injection wounds as a result that is not something to advocate on a forum.

If you enjoy noodling around and playing engineer, that is great. It is not recommended in real life in the spray world.

If you choose to continue this discussion, please pm me or start a thread of your own to discuss tip modifications.

It would be nice if we could keep this thread on track.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2017, 07:34 AM by Scott Burt »

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #49 on: May 08, 2017, 08:24 AM »
Scott,

Thank you for the thread.  As someone who does work in the 1 gallon to 2 gallon range I find this interesting - and tempting.

Did you have a chance to test the model that can spray hot finishes?  If so, can you share any experiences / knowledge?

Peter
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #50 on: May 08, 2017, 08:45 AM »
Scott,

Thank you for the thread.  As someone who does work in the 1 gallon to 2 gallon range I find this interesting - and tempting.

Did you have a chance to test the model that can spray hot finishes?  If so, can you share any experiences / knowledge?

Peter

Thanks Peter.

No, we have not used that version yet. We don't do much hot solvent based finishing...

Offline RKA

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #51 on: May 08, 2017, 11:07 AM »
Thanks Scott!  I actually bought the corded one after seeing your plug for the FFLP tips earlier this year.  For small punch list stuff, this looks like it will work out nicely without creating the mess and fuss that goes with airless.  For slightly larger jobs, it sound like it might be helpful to have a few containers on tap so you can quickly swap?

Hopefully I'll be able to put it to use in the next couple weeks.  I think Graco is throwing in 2-4 extra tips until the end of June depending on which model you get (normally ~$30 ea.). 
-Raj

Offline rst

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #52 on: May 08, 2017, 11:10 AM »
I checked with my local S/W dealer and he gave me pricing but the Max will not be available until June.  He was told that they were over sold, however they do not seem to be available anywhere yet.

Offline RKA

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #53 on: May 08, 2017, 01:24 PM »
For slightly larger jobs, it sound like it might be helpful to have a few containers on tap so you can quickly swap?

Nevermind, I saw you covered this topic around 16:00 in the video you posted yesterday. 
-Raj

Offline frodo

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Re: New Handheld Technology
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2017, 11:11 PM »
Purchased the Graco cordless ultra a few weeks ago. Primed and painted (pro classic) a few doors since then and was really happy with the finish. The Dewalt batts are great and nice to have for my other cordless tools. Easy clean-up and no cord!!

Thanks for the info on the unit Scott, my experience with it was in line with your review. Two thumbs up.