Author Topic: New to conventional spraying and equipment  (Read 2913 times)

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Offline JustinWG

  • Posts: 36
New to conventional spraying and equipment
« on: April 28, 2017, 04:48 AM »
I'm looking to try and boil down some info on spraying and equipment....

Precursor:  I've spent some time with Graco Airless sprayers, but absolutely zero time with conventional equipment.

Intended projects:
  -  Door package (20+ craftsmen style doors) arrive in ~2 wks.  I have to spray them in our garage which is attached to the house.  Side note - our gas furnace and water heater are in the same garage.  From what I've gathered, assuming it is setup correctly, a HVLP minimize the mess, compared to an airless.  I would likely be shooting something similar to SW Pro Industrial Water Born.

  -  Interior cabinets are on the honey-do list.

  -  Hobbyist wood working projects.

After lurking on this forum, I see a lot of people are very fond of the FUJI turbine systems.  Based on your experiences, what makes them better or more desirable than a Graco or Titan?  Or are they?

Assuming my research is correct, given that I'd like to shoot acrylics, it is suggested that I get at least a 4-stage unit.  A 3-stage could squeak by, but 4+ stage is strongly recommended.  Would you say that is a fair and accurate statement?

Another key feature that I'm looking for, is something with as low of a noise output as possible. 

What style of a gun should I be looking at?  Or does the gun type [preference] depend on the material used?  I am impartial to a particular style aesthetically.  I just want the best function for the $$$.

My local SW says they can get me into a Graco (FinishPro) or Titan 4 stage for around 850-900, which is considerably less than list price.  Having said that, are there better deals that anyone is aware of?  Should I be looking at any other brands?

Thanks!

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5265
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2017, 08:27 AM »
If you have an airless with variable pressure setting, try the FFLP tips first. Make sure you use the new FFLP tip seat in the RAC holder. For waterborne use the black seal.

If you don't have an airless---look into the Graco GX-19.

I base the above on the description of your projects.

Make some door rotators, I prefer them to shooting vertical.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 443
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2017, 08:14 PM »
If you have an airless with variable pressure setting, try the FFLP tips first. Make sure you use the new FFLP tip seat in the RAC holder. For waterborne use the black seal.

Tom
Care to explain why to use the black seal for waterborne.  I picked up a couple of new style FFLP tips but are still unopened.  I use a  modified tip guard on a Graco Truecoat Pro II and I believe the seal "might" be different.  Some that modified the guards and replaced the seal with the one included in the tip package leaked.  So this is why I'm wondering why you mentioned the seal.
Bill
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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5265
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2017, 08:26 PM »
If you have an airless with variable pressure setting, try the FFLP tips first. Make sure you use the new FFLP tip seat in the RAC holder. For waterborne use the black seal.

Tom
Care to explain why to use the black seal for waterborne.  I picked up a couple of new style FFLP tips but are still unopened.  I use a  modified tip guard on a Graco Truecoat Pro II and I believe the seal "might" be different.  Some that modified the guards and replaced the seal with the one included in the tip package leaked.  So this is why I'm wondering why you mentioned the seal.

If you use the FFLP tips, to get the benefit from them you must use the steel seal/seat that come with it. It's where the magic begins. As you can see different size orifice. 262553-0

There are 2 seals in the package, black and an yellow. The black is for waterborne, the yellow for solvents.

It is possible the TC seal is different than the RAC seal. If the TC holder comes with the black and yellow seal, the black would be for waterborne products.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 443
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2017, 10:39 PM »
If you use the FFLP tips, to get the benefit from them you must use the steel seal/seat that come with it. It's where the magic begins. As you can see different size orifice. (Attachment Link)

There are 2 seals in the package, black and an yellow. The black is for waterborne, the yellow for solvents.

It is possible the TC seal is different than the RAC seal. If the TC holder comes with the black and yellow seal, the black would be for waterborne products.

Tom
No spares come with the TC.  The mounting thread on the holder is different than a RAC X.  Only one seal came regular and old FFT RAC X tips, a yellow one.  That one sure has a large hole!  Don't remember if the hole size is different on TC, have to check that.
Bill
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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5265
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2017, 11:10 PM »
If you use the FFLP tips, to get the benefit from them you must use the steel seal/seat that come with it. It's where the magic begins. As you can see different size orifice. (Attachment Link)

There are 2 seals in the package, black and an yellow. The black is for waterborne, the yellow for solvents.

It is possible the TC seal is different than the RAC seal. If the TC holder comes with the black and yellow seal, the black would be for waterborne products.

Tom
No spares come with the TC.  The mounting thread on the holder is different than a RAC X.  Only one seal came regular and old FFT RAC X tips, a yellow one.  That one sure has a large hole!  Don't remember if the hole size is different on TC, have to check that.

The smaller hole seat is for the FFLP tip.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5265
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #6 on: April 28, 2017, 11:15 PM »

Offline JustinWG

  • Posts: 36
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2017, 01:29 AM »
Tom -

Thank you for your input.  I will certainly be looking into the FFLP and Graco GX-19.  I do not currently own an airless, and my access is limited.  Would I actually gain anything by going with an HVLP?  The GX-19 seems to be a really solid option for my scope of work.  I guess ultimately, I'm just slightly concern about the overspray of an airless.  Having said that, I'm sure the FFLP tip and system settings make all the difference...? 

I'm still really liking the door rotators.  Wish we would've seen/thought of that about a decade ago....  We've always shot doors vertically, alternating 45 degrees.  The rotators seem like they would really excel in space management.

Again, thank you for your advice!


Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 113
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2017, 06:55 AM »
The Titan ED655 is another good option and I think it's a little cheaper than the Graco GX-19. I haven't tried mine with the new FFLP tips yet.


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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5265
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2017, 07:20 AM »
Justin,

I've used the LP tips a few times. Overspray was definitely decreased compared to a regular fine fish tip.

See if you can get a Graco rep to demo the units for you.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 443
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2017, 08:12 AM »
Page 13 shows the yellow seals are for solvents.

http://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ced/literature/brochures/342355/342355EN-D.pdf

Tom
Yes, it appears there are to different seals as you stated but not all Graco Handheld can spray hot solvents like lacquers and the TCPII being one of them but maybe the seal material is the only difference.  It looks like all RAC X replacement tips prior to the FFLP line came with a steel insert with that larger hole.  I just looked at one TCPII guards and although it isn't like the large hole it looks to be a little bit bigger than the one supplied with the FFLP tips.  I'd have to remove/measure one to be sure.

The TCPII guards are a bit different being a oval shape.  How'd you remove/replace the steel insert, blow it out with compressed air?

http://www.portlandcompressor.com/Store/p-2637-rac-x-seal-kit-5-pack.aspx

http://www.portlandcompressor.com/store/p-2647-rac-x-solvent-gasketseat-pk5.aspx

There isn't any listing at this site anyway for the steel inserts with the small hole(FFLP) yet.

Bill
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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5265
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2017, 08:21 AM »
Page 13 shows the yellow seals are for solvents.

http://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ced/literature/brochures/342355/342355EN-D.pdf

Tom
Yes, it appears there are to different seals as you stated but not all Graco Handheld can spray hot solvents like lacquers and the TCPII being one of them but maybe the seal material is the only difference.  It looks like all RAC X replacement tips prior to the FFLP line came with a steel insert with that larger hole.  I just looked at one TCPII guards and although it isn't like the large hole it looks to be a little bit bigger than the one supplied with the FFLP tips.  I'd have to remove/measure one to be sure.

The TCPII guards are a bit different being a oval shape.  How'd you remove/replace the steel insert, blow it out with compressed air?

http://www.portlandcompressor.com/Store/p-2637-rac-x-seal-kit-5-pack.aspx

http://www.portlandcompressor.com/store/p-2647-rac-x-solvent-gasketseat-pk5.aspx

There isn't any listing at this site anyway for the steel inserts with the small hole(FFLP) yet.

Don't know why the material limitation on some of the handhelds. The new Ultra line has the limitations also, only the Max is solvent compatible.

The LP tips I have all came with the steel seat. Don't think I ever purchased a seat or seal separately.

On the RAC holders, they push out easily from front to rear.

Tom
« Last Edit: April 29, 2017, 08:23 AM by tjbnwi »

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 443
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2017, 05:49 PM »
Here's a side by side comparing the Truecoat Pro II steel insert to the new Graco FFLP steel insert.  The TCPII has a "O" ring as a seal.  Notice that the FFLP insert has a ridge on the steel part which makes the O.D. too big to use in a TCPII tip guard.  I remove the "O" ring, inserted a seal and it's a bit loose and may not not seal anyway.

The FFLP insert with seal installed is a bit taller too.

I wonder why the black seal also had a ridge but the yellow seal for lacquer doesn't?? [unsure]

The FFLP insert's hole is much smaller than the standard insert as Tom mentioned but the TCPII hole is only around .010" larger and might work as well.  I'll give one a try in the future.




Bill
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Offline wptski

  • Posts: 443
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2017, 09:00 AM »
Looking at the manual for Graco's line of new handhelds that use a RAC X tip guard.  The insert and/or seal is inserted from the rear which is a major difference between it and a Truecoat Pro II tip guard.
Bill
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Offline rst

  • Posts: 1557
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2017, 10:41 AM »
The difference for the solvent capable guns is that the they are brush free and therefore spark free, thus explosion proof.  You really would want to be flushing lacquer thinner out a gun that had a brushed motor!   [scared]  This the reason explosion proof fans are so expensive...motor and liability. 

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 443
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2017, 12:27 PM »
The difference for the solvent capable guns is that the they are brush free and therefore spark free, thus explosion proof.  You really would want to be flushing lacquer thinner out a gun that had a brushed motor!   [scared]  This the reason explosion proof fans are so expensive...motor and liability.
I know that but this is about the differences between tip guards.  The Truecoat Series is obsolete and the new series all use the RAC X type guards but only one can use hot solvents.  I'm wondering if the higher price of the Ultra model that can use hot solvents is because it has a brushless motor?  In drill/drivers they deliver more torque.
Bill
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Offline Scott Burt

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  • Posts: 1980
  • painter/writer/educator
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Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2017, 09:45 AM »
Page 13 shows the yellow seals are for solvents.

http://www.graco.com/content/dam/graco/ced/literature/brochures/342355/342355EN-D.pdf

Tom
Yes, it appears there are to different seals as you stated but not all Graco Handheld can spray hot solvents like lacquers and the TCPII being one of them but maybe the seal material is the only difference.  It looks like all RAC X replacement tips prior to the FFLP line came with a steel insert with that larger hole.  I just looked at one TCPII guards and although it isn't like the large hole it looks to be a little bit bigger than the one supplied with the FFLP tips.  I'd have to remove/measure one to be sure.

The TCPII guards are a bit different being a oval shape.  How'd you remove/replace the steel insert, blow it out with compressed air?

http://www.portlandcompressor.com/Store/p-2637-rac-x-seal-kit-5-pack.aspx

http://www.portlandcompressor.com/store/p-2647-rac-x-solvent-gasketseat-pk5.aspx

There isn't any listing at this site anyway for the steel inserts with the small hole(FFLP) yet.

Don't know why the material limitation on some of the handhelds. The new Ultra line has the limitations also, only the Max is solvent compatible.

The LP tips I have all came with the steel seat. Don't think I ever purchased a seat or seal separately.

On the RAC holders, they push out easily from front to rear.

Tom

The Ultra/Ultimate handhelds (both corded and cordless) can do solvent as in oil based...things you'd clean with thinner. Products that are "hotter" than that are what the Max version is designed for. So, the regular units are not waterborne/latex only, they can do oil based.

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 443
Re: New to conventional spraying and equipment
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2017, 01:06 PM »
The Ultra/Ultimate handhelds (both corded and cordless) can do solvent as in oil based...things you'd clean with thinner. Products that are "hotter" than that are what the Max version is designed for. So, the regular units are not waterborne/latex only, they can do oil based.
In battery powered hand tools brushless(DC current) don't create any sparks but there AC power ventilation fans that are solvent safe also, I wonder if they rectify the AC to DC.  Brushless motors are easier on batteries but there are no specs for battery life on this new line as far as I know which might answer that question.
Bill
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