Author Topic: Paint Spraying Starting Points  (Read 8132 times)

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Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 115
Paint Spraying Starting Points
« on: April 10, 2018, 05:42 AM »
I'm just at the beginning of my HVLP experience and couldn't find starting points for many finishes. If you email the HVLP or finish manufacturer you'll get good recommendations, but none seem willing to provide their complete list, just one answer at a time. So with this post, I'm starting a list. @Peter Halle agreed to sticky this at the top of the finishing forum to make it easier to find.

My request to all of you is, please reply with the combinations that have been recommended by the manufacturer to you, and whether you found that sufficient, or if you had to modify it. I will compile the answers into the table below.

Sherwin Williams
FinishApplicatorSizePressureNotes
Kem Aqua Plus SurfacerConventional0.055-0.070Air: 45-55 psiFord #4: 60 sec.
Airless0.013-0.015Air: 1800-2100 psiWet Mils: 4.0-5.0
AAA0.013-0.015Air: 15-20 psi; Fluid: 600-800 psiSand or re-coat after 20 min.
HVLP1.4-1.8 mmAir: 8-10 psi
Kem Aqua Plus WhiteConventional0.055-0.070Air: 45-55 psiFord #4: 40 sec.
Airless0.013-0.015Air: 1500-1800 psiWet Mils: 3.0-4.0
AAA0.011-0.013Air: 15-20 psi; Fluid: 400-700 psiSand or re-coat after 25 min.
HVLP1.4-1.8 mmAir: 8-10 psi
Target Coatings
FinishApplicatorSizeNotes
EM6500HVLP1.8mm
Zinsser
FinishApplicatorSizeNotes
BINHVLP1.0mm or smallerStir constantly to keep pigment suspended.
Seal CoatHVLP1.0mm or smaller
« Last Edit: April 10, 2018, 02:52 PM by PaulH99 »
-Paul
CT 26 • DF 500 • ETS 125 • KS 120 • OF 1400 • PS 420 • RO 125 • TS 55 R

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Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 115
Re: Paint Spraying Starting Points
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2018, 06:23 AM »
DuraLaq-WB Waterborne Acrylic White Undercoater, p/n 1WB.200

ApplicatorFuji MM5
Aircap1.3 mm
Air regulatorFull open
Fluid ControlFour (4) turns from full closed
Fan Pattern Control12 O'clock (circle) for edges, 2 O'clock for surfaces
Wet Mils3–5
« Last Edit: April 22, 2018, 06:27 AM by PaulH99 »
-Paul
CT 26 • DF 500 • ETS 125 • KS 120 • OF 1400 • PS 420 • RO 125 • TS 55 R

Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 115
Re: Paint Spraying Starting Points
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2018, 06:27 AM »
DuraLaq-WB® Waterborne White Acrylic Finish, p/n 1WB.206 (Semi-Gloss)

ApplicatorFuji MM5
Aircap1.0 mm
Air regulatorFull open
Fluid ControlFour (4) turns from full closed
Fan Pattern Control12 O'clock (circle) for edges, 2 O'clock for surfaces
Wet Mils3–5
-Paul
CT 26 • DF 500 • ETS 125 • KS 120 • OF 1400 • PS 420 • RO 125 • TS 55 R

Offline Scott Burt

  • Magazine/Blog Author
  • *
  • Posts: 1994
  • painter/writer/educator
    • Prep to Finish
Re: Paint Spraying Starting Points
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2018, 07:44 PM »
What a great idea!

It is so product based...I will try to add some of my product settings as time allows.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 607
Re: Paint Spraying Starting Points
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2018, 07:45 AM »
@PaulH99 Thanks for the initiative  [cool]

Last week I asked my first question about finishing. I mentioned I was not yet ready for HVLP or any spray painting. On the weekend  I asked one of my good friend "Youtube" to show me some videos to help understand. I first found video from Easwood Company. Of course they try to sell their products, but that particular video was really informative to me. From that viseo I learned some techniques and that you can use bottom feed and gravity feed spray gun. If I was to order a spray gun before viewing those videos I would have no clue what the difference is and what to look for.
Mario

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3676
Re: Paint Spraying Starting Points
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2018, 08:02 AM »
Great start!!!  Now, if we could just get @tjbnwi, @JCLP, and a few others with considerable expertise to compile their experiences in a similar table with appropriate notes and suggestions, we'd really be off to a good start.  I, for one, truly admire their expertise and wish it could be more available as I start into the world of HVLP. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline PaulH99

  • Posts: 115
Re: Paint Spraying Starting Points
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2018, 09:37 AM »
@Sparktrician @Mario Turcot Thank you! My hope is to take the tables others post and integrate them into the one I started so that there is a single source of "truth" for everyone. I suspect that attaching an Excel spreadsheet might be a better option though.
-Paul
CT 26 • DF 500 • ETS 125 • KS 120 • OF 1400 • PS 420 • RO 125 • TS 55 R

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5769
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Paint Spraying Starting Points
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2018, 11:14 AM »
Great start!!!  Now, if we could just get @tjbnwi, @JCLP, and a few others with considerable expertise to compile their experiences in a similar table with appropriate notes and suggestions, we'd really be off to a good start.  I, for one, truly admire their expertise and wish it could be more available as I start into the world of HVLP.

When I can find the time I will contribute to this. One of the biggest issues would be some of the equipment I use and environmental changes. Not to many here have 10K in finish sprayers set up.

Always listen to what the spray is telling you. You will hear changes before you’ll ever see a finish flaw.

Below are 3 sprayers and 4 guns I’m using on the current job, each one is set differently to adjust for the machine and product it is delivering. The Triton I had to decrease fluid pressure on from the start at 7 AM to the temp change at 1 PM. It was just a 2 psi change, but I had to make the change to keep the finish consistent. As the day cooled I had to add the 2 psi back.

Finishing is the hardest endeavor there is in wood working.

Tom

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 875
Re: Paint Spraying Starting Points
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2018, 02:10 PM »
PPG Brealthrough
Water-Borne Acrylic Interior/Exterior, produc # V51-410C

Applicator:   Fuji Q5, power adjusted to the 4 o'clock position, 3M PPS, T75 Gravity gun. This may will need to be adjusted if you are using the T70 Siphon gun
Aircap:   1.5 mm for cabinet door size panels. For large panels ( fridge size ) I use a 2.5 mm to get a better fan with full power on the Q5
Air regulator:   Not used
Fluid Control:   never kept tracked of this as it does differ a little each time
Fan Pattern Control:   Vertical spray - Horizontal postion
Wet Mils   3–4

This paint is very forgiving as long as you apply the correct wet mils. I thin this 10% with distilled water. Do not exceed as I have done this and it does affect the film and hardness. Some people use the Extender product from BM. I have tried that and found the paint does not dry as hard. Use WATER only. Make sure you fan width is about 5-6 inches and that you are not putting too much paint as it will affect the level of atomization. Keep the gun about 7-8 inches away from the surface, overlap 50%. It should take you about 2-3 seconds to do a 16" pass.

Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 875
Re: Paint Spraying Starting Points
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2018, 10:48 AM »
PPG Breakthrough
As many of you know, I have been spraying PPG Breakthrough, #V51-410C, tinted to a medium to dark grey. As I have had great success in laying down a very smooth coat I thought everything was going well until I looked at it uner an LED light. You see from the photo below that the colour turns out blotching and not smooth looking. It was smooth to the touch, but looked like crap when you look at the panel under the LED light at an angle. So I started doing a lot of testing with thinning, air pressure, needle size and spraying technique to rectify the situation, but had no luck. After much research, on the web and talking to paint experts and PPG support, I came to the conclusion that the colorant used to tint the base was not compatible.

Found out that some PPG dealers, who were also BM dealers, are using BM colourants to  tint the paint. Now many think that because Breakthrough is an acrylic paint and the BM colourant are also acrylic that it would work. WRONG.

After many discussions with PPG, they informed me that the only colourants that are compatible with Breakthrough is their 96 line of colorants. So off I went looking for a PPG dealer that used their colorants. To my surprise, it proved very difficult as many of their dealers our also BM dealers. So they gave me a location of one of their corporate stores, not a BM dealer, and I purchased a gallon using their tints. Guess what, it works perfectly.

As a warning, the acrylic that BM uses and PPG uses for their paints is not the same. Many people also use BM extender to thin Breakthrough. Do not, as the acrylic resin of BM Extender is not the same as the acrylic used in Breakthrough. Only use water to thin the paint. Also, be careful. Some PPG dealer will use the Glycol version of their colorants to tint Breakthrough. They are not compatible. You never put Glycol in an Acrylic based paint.

The two additional photos below illustrates the compatibilty of BM Colourant in Breakthrough. This can has been sitting for 2 days. The can tinted with PPG colorants did not do that after 2 days.

Cheers,
JC