Author Topic: Question on sanding  (Read 5931 times)

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Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Question on sanding
« on: December 01, 2016, 09:27 PM »
Hi- I have a couple questions about sanding.  Please help :)

1. I want to stain the kitchen island,but not sure I need sand more or not. Please see the pictures. When the wood is wet,it looks like uneven colored with some finishes left. However looks fine when dried. I'm afraid the whole pierce would look horrible after staining.

2. There are some veneer strips on the bottom and side of cabinets and toe kick. Should I sand or just degloss them using actone or tsp?

3. I heard that it is about the same cost to mask the cabinets or spray the inside. Any sanding needs to be done for inside of cabinet before spraying?

It is so confusing to me and thank you for your help!
« Last Edit: December 01, 2016, 09:32 PM by usatu »

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Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2199
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2016, 08:57 AM »
Are you removing an existing finish and staining to another color?
 The door does look uneven in color and also sanding. Can you post how you've sanded it so far in terms of grit and what you're using?
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2016, 10:44 AM »
I sanded it using 150 grits. Yes, I want to remove the current finish and stain a few doors. Thank you very much for your help !

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5769
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Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2016, 12:35 PM »
You need to continue removing the residue on the wood. Until the water penetrates evenly do not stain the doors.

Once you're done with the 150, go to 180.

Those doors are maple, as it is maple can be difficult to stain evenly. Once you get the water to look even come back and we'll help you get the stain on properly.

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2016, 02:52 PM »
Tom-
 I am afraid that I don't have enough time to finish sanding them on time especially those crevasses.
 For stain alternative, will grain of maple show with colored kem aqua plus? Please see attached picture from you. How did you paint this door? I want to find how to do this in a darker color such as chestnut or walnut.
 Do I sand more to show even color to paint with KA+?  Really appreciate your professional suggestions. Thanks so much!

You need to continue removing the residue on the wood. Until the water penetrates evenly do not stain the doors.

Once you're done with the 150, go to 180.

Those doors are maple, as it is maple can be difficult to stain evenly. Once you get the water to look even come back and we'll help you get the stain on properly.

Tom
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 03:03 PM by usatu »

Offline tjbnwi

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  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2016, 05:03 PM »
Don't rush finishes. The time you try to save now will come back to bite you 10 fold. Maple (and cherry) is(are)  very difficult to get right to begin with. I contend proper finishes are the hardest things to achieve in the woodworking field.

That door is stained with Sherwin Williams BAC that was mixed to the owners liking, then top coated with SW KA+.

Pigmented KA+ will completely cover/hide the grain. This photo is of maple doors made with the same bit set for the same homeowner. Sprayed with KA+ for her bath vanity. 254818-0

This is why you don't rush finishes ;

I received these arm rest caps ready to be stained and finished---so they thought (they were unstained/raw when I received them.) 254820-1

After I applied the BAC to some of them, I sanded to highlight the flaws. Needed to have the GC see how bad they were.254822-2

After proper sanding/prep and finish of 280 of these caps.254824-3

Tom
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 05:06 PM by tjbnwi »

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2016, 08:41 PM »
Tom- Really appreciate you taking time to answer my questions. As you suggested, I will re-sand those doors to make them right. Additional questions: It is very hard to tell those spots with left over finishes when it dried. Should I wet the wood and sand the spots first and then redo the whole surface? Will it damage the wood? Secondly, I only have a craftman palm sander not the orbit random sander. Will it be able to accomplish the work?

Thanks again !
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 09:03 PM by usatu »

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5769
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2016, 09:27 PM »
There are times a safe stripper or hand work is the appropriate way to go.

Tadpoles are nice to have and a good pull scraper.

http://www.rockler.com/rockler-contour-sanding-grips

https://www.amazon.com/Hyde-Tools-10450-Contour-Changeable/dp/B000W65L7E

Wiping with mineral spirits helps define the areas that could be problematic.

Tom


Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2016, 09:43 PM »
I already bought these two things. Somehow the scraper is so easy to gauge the wood and leave marks. I am a little afraid to use it. Guess I need learn to best use these tools to help me. Thanks so much and I will report back.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2199
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2016, 10:15 PM »
I already bought these two things. Somehow the scraper is so easy to gauge the wood and leave marks. I am a little afraid to use it. Guess I need learn to best use these tools to help me. Thanks so much and I will report back.
. Not somehow on the scraper, but common since they are sharp and much harder than the wood.  Watching the angle you're holding the scraper to the wood can help, carbide versus a plain steel scraper will also be a learning curve.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2016, 07:36 PM »
I tried on a draw front and wiped with mineral spirit. is this good enough for stain?

The island sides are made of the pressed board with venner. How should I deal with those for stain?I stripped the finish using citri strip and whipped with mineral spirit. Really not sure about the next step . I have attached the pictures. Greatly appreciate your kind inputs!

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2016, 07:46 PM »
The drawer faces look fine to stain/color.

Hard to tell on the island. Being a veneer you may have to do some toning and playing with the stain to get it right.

Color? Type of stain? Have you considered dye?

Tom


Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2016, 09:17 PM »
Yeah! That's great news. More questions:

Do you normally sand veneer? Does toning mean mixing different color stains to match with the stain color shown on real wood? How hard is that?

I am open to all stains as long as work on maple , not too hard to apply and get the nice results  [smile] Hope it is not a dream. I found many ppl suggested sherwood bac wiping stain and general finishes stain. Will they be suitable for a complete stain novice like me [embarassed]?

Thank you very much

The drawer faces look fine to stain/color.

Hard to tell on the island. Being a veneer you may have to do some toning and playing with the stain to get it right.

Color? Type of stain? Have you considered dye?

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2016, 09:20 PM »
I kept watching the videos of scraping on youtube and realize that I should not be afraid of removing a thin layer of wood [tongue] That's scraper meant to do, isn't it?

I already bought these two things. Somehow the scraper is so easy to gauge the wood and leave marks. I am a little afraid to use it. Guess I need learn to best use these tools to help me. Thanks so much and I will report back.
. Not somehow on the scraper, but common since they are sharp and much harder than the wood.  Watching the angle you're holding the scraper to the wood can help, carbide versus a plain steel scraper will also be a learning curve.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2016, 10:17 PM »
Do you have spray capability?

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2016, 11:17 PM »
I got the fuji q4 hvlp gun but need practice and improve my skills.

Do you have spray capability?

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #16 on: December 05, 2016, 07:14 PM »
If you use BAC it needs to be spray top coated. Hand top coating will drag the stain.

Color?

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #17 on: December 05, 2016, 10:45 PM »
Tom-
I am thinking walnut or mahogany or something close to the picture attached  [tongue] Looks like KA+ clear only comes in 5 gallons. What else I can use as top coat?

Thanks again for your great help!

If you use BAC it needs to be spray top coated. Hand top coating will drag the stain.

Color?

Tom

Offline Holmz

  • Posts: 4010
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2016, 02:56 AM »
I kept watching the videos of scraping on youtube and realize that I should not be afraid of removing a thin layer of wood [tongue] That's scraper meant to do, isn't it?

I already bought these two things. Somehow the scraper is so easy to gauge the wood and leave marks. I am a little afraid to use it. Guess I need learn to best use these tools to help me. Thanks so much and I will report back.
. Not somehow on the scraper, but common since they are sharp and much harder than the wood.  Watching the angle you're holding the scraper to the wood can help, carbide versus a plain steel scraper will also be a learning curve.

Sometime one can detune  the ends to prevent it going all the way out.
Usually if you bend-it/flex-it with thumb pressure, then it woks more in the middle anyhow.

If you have any skier friends it is getting to be the right time of year for a demo.

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2016, 03:08 PM »
I had to remove the finish from pine 6 panel doors to stain they a dark color. The owner did not want to just have the doors toned a darker color because she wanted to see the grain.

I used chemical stripper, sanders, scrapers, hand sanding to get finish off the doors. I would have loved to been able to just sand it all, but the veneer was way to this for that. A few spots I did sand a little to much, toner solved the shadow problem.

The dye is Trans Tint Dark Walnut, 4 ounces per gallon, three applications. Carrier was denatured alcohol. Everything was scary applied.

Tom

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 443
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2016, 04:02 PM »
Tom:

The room's inside trim is white around the door but the outside(before staining), the jamb/trim matched the door, how was that handled?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2016, 05:44 PM »
Very nice application and love it. Today I bought the bac wiping stain in traditional cherry. We tested  3 different colors on a pierce of maple  and this one gives the darkest/rich color. But I would like it tone to black a little. Any toner you will suggest for the stain?Cant wait to get the project started. My sanding on the doors is almost finished and I will work on the venner part. Will paint stripper and light sanding work for preparing the veneer?

Really appreciate your inputs as always!I read those posts over and over and hope I got every step correctly so far.

Offline tjbnwi

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  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2016, 06:04 PM »
Very nice application and love it. Today I bought the bac wiping stain in traditional cherry. We tested  3 different colors on a pierce of maple  and this one gives the darkest/rich color. But I would like it tone to black a little. Any toner you will suggest for the stain?Cant wait to get the project started. My sanding on the doors is almost finished and I will work on the venner part. Will paint stripper and light sanding work for preparing the veneer?

Really appreciate your inputs as always!I read those posts over and over and hope I got every step correctly so far.

You want the cherry to shift to black slightly or the undertone shifted to black?

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2016, 06:07 PM »
Tom:

The room's inside trim is white around the door but the outside(before staining), the jamb/trim matched the door, how was that handled?

Cleaned well, scuff sanded, primed with BM bonding primer, top coated with BM Advance in Navajo White. Used BM products instead of SW because the homeowner supplied them.

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2016, 07:52 PM »
I attached the pictures(top sample). Not sure how the finish is done but I feel a dark tone in the cherry. The stain I tried on the maple  is more unified color and redish and lighter than this.

Very nice application and love it. Today I bought the bac wiping stain in traditional cherry. We tested  3 different colors on a pierce of maple  and this one gives the darkest/rich color. But I would like it tone to black a little. Any toner you will suggest for the stain?Cant wait to get the project started. My sanding on the doors is almost finished and I will work on the venner part. Will paint stripper and light sanding work for preparing the veneer?

Really appreciate your inputs as always!I read those posts over and over and hope I got every step correctly so far.

You want the cherry to shift to black slightly or the undertone shifted to black?

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2016, 08:06 PM »
Maple is a much lighter wood than cherry. Cherry is light brown until is naturally darkens.

Bring the store the sample and some scrap pieces of maple. They should be able to adjust the color. They'll have to add some yellow to draw back the red, maybe add a little black.

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2016, 09:17 PM »
They don't do custom tint on the stain here [sad] I went there today with the sample. Not sure what else I can do. Zero experience with stain and toner. Is it a trial and error to get the color you like?  I am clueless about what next step is. Thank you for your suggestion.
Maple is a much lighter wood than cherry. Cherry is light brown until is naturally darkens.

Bring the store the sample and some scrap pieces of maple. They should be able to adjust the color. They'll have to add some yellow to draw back the red, maybe add a little black.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2016, 09:20 PM »
Where are you located?

You may need to tone the maple with dye prior to staining.

Tom

Offline usatu

  • Posts: 121
Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2016, 09:29 PM »
I am in Philly suburb. Can I create toner by dyes, mineral spirits and apply on top of stain? I saw some videoes on youtube and need to figure out the formula.
Where are you located?

You may need to tone the maple with dye prior to staining.

Tom

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: Question on sanding
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2016, 09:35 PM »
Trans Tint dyes.

http://homesteadfinishingproducts.com/products-we-offer/stains-and-colorants/

I tone prior to stain and use denatured alcohol as the carrier.

Tom