Author Topic: Recommendations for a spraying setup  (Read 3963 times)

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Offline donwon

  • Posts: 143
Recommendations for a spraying setup
« on: January 13, 2018, 10:41 AM »
Hi Folks,

I am looking for recommendations for a spraying setup for the following.

- Building a setup of closet built in units.  Would be birch plywood or MDF frames with some trim or drawers.
- Built ins for a living room the same as above.
- General house hold trim for doors and baseboards.
- Bedroom and closet doors for a house.

 I am a novice at spraying and have done it before but looking to improve with this as I build the items above.  Primer and Paint would probably be Sherrwin Williams but looking for suggestions as to what is the easier primer and paint to use.

Note that I realize I may sacrifice the quality of the finish to make it easier with a paint or primer and am willing to do that.

Some ideas for paint setups is an HVLP setup such as the Fuji or Graco but looking for thoughts on that. 

Thanks for any thoughts or suggestions!

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2018, 11:01 AM »
If the products you're spraying will primarily be paint, look at the Graco GX-19.

Tom
« Last Edit: January 13, 2018, 11:19 AM by tjbnwi »

Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 157
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2018, 11:36 AM »
Unless you plan on spraying more projects in the future, you might consider taking everything to a pre-finisher to be painted.

For Waterborne paints I’d recommend an airless or an air assist airless sprayer. If you’re thinking about using lacquers then I’d recommend an HVLP.

As for products, if you want to stick with Sherwin I’d recommend Premium Wall and Wood primer and top coat with ProClassic Hybrid or Emerald Urethane or Pro Industrial Waterborne Alkyd Urethane.

 


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Offline RDMuller

  • Posts: 295
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2018, 02:19 PM »
A great company to work with is General Finishes.  https://generalfinishes.com.   There are lots of tips in the videos on spraying equipment, using the products etc      https://generalfinishes.com/how-to-videos 
There must be close to 1000 finished samples at https://designs.generalfinishes.com
You can call these folks and get excellent tech support.  They treat novices and pros equally
Hint -- milk paints are acrylics which flow on like old fashioned milk paints used to --just marketing
If you need to thin any of their water based products such as paints stains & topcoats, play around with their "water based dye stain reducer".  So far it has been a great thinner solvent for me with my equipment

Offline donwon

  • Posts: 143
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2018, 03:13 PM »
If the products you're spraying will primarily be paint, look at the Graco GX-19.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Quick question, are you recommending the airless sprayer due to the surface area of the projects and the HVLP sprayers would not have the capacity for this?

Thanks for your help!

Offline LDBecker

  • Posts: 96
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2018, 08:38 PM »
What about the Graco Ultra or Ultramax hand-held. I have used the previous versions with good results (but too much overspray for me) on paint as well as General Finishes top coat clear. The newer Ultra versions seem significantly improved. They even have larger "flexliner" kits for bigger jobs. People are saying they reduced the overspray significantly on the new models as well.  The hand-held units could easily handle a job like your doing - I have managed it quite well.

I actually bought both the UltraMax and the Graco 9.5 ProContractor 5-stage HVLP in December, but have been so busy with job and tiling that I haven't even powered them up. Soon...

But I wouldn't hesitate recommending the Ultra line, unless you're going to be painting houses or really large projects. That, or an HVLP set-up - at least a 4-stage.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2018, 08:56 PM »
If the products you're spraying will primarily be paint, look at the Graco GX-19.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Quick question, are you recommending the airless sprayer due to the surface area of the projects and the HVLP sprayers would not have the capacity for this?

Thanks for your help!

I'm making the recommendation based on the product you are spraying. Airless or air assisted airless sprayers handle paints better than an HVLP. Paints can be sprayed with an HVLP, but they take more practice and trial and error.

The GX-19 was built as a finish sprayer. With the FFLP tips the gun will cover any situation. t is also easy to clean.

I have the option of a Fuji HVLP with 3 different guns and a pressure pot, Graco PC 395 AAA, Graco Triton or Graco X-19 and a 6500 PSI Airlesco. If I had to choose one it would be a toss up between the Triton because it handles lacquers a little better than the AAA, but the AAA handles paint better.

Tom

Offline Rollin22Petes

  • Posts: 177
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2018, 09:50 PM »
Hey Tom I have a question. I use a Kremlin in the shop to spray lacquer's but it really sucks when I have to drag a compressor along when I have to spray on site. I would like to find an electric sprayer for these task but I'm not very familiar with electric sprayers. Is there one you would recommend that would spray lacquer and give a finish that would rival the Kremlin. Thanks Chris 

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2018, 11:16 PM »
Hey Tom I have a question. I use a Kremlin in the shop to spray lacquer's but it really sucks when I have to drag a compressor along when I have to spray on site. I would like to find an electric sprayer for these task but I'm not very familiar with electric sprayers. Is there one you would recommend that would spray lacquer and give a finish that would rival the Kremlin. Thanks Chris

The 395 AAA will do it. It has an onboard compressor, weighs 130 pounds. Honestly just go with the Kremlin. Maybe a different compressor? See if a Menards near you has one of these discontinued CAT compressors in stock;

https://www.menards.com/main/storeAvailability.html?iid=1471978733665&yard=3298

I use the 2 gallon one to run the Triton at times.

The issue I had with the AAA when starting with its was me more than anything. The HVLP and Triton spray at a different rate. I had to learn to move about 50% faster when shooting waterborne lacquer. I use the flat tips in the guns. I have the Graco G-40 and C.A.T. Bobcat gun.

I think I have as much money in needle/nozzles, air caps and tips as I do in a couple of the sprayers.

Tom

Offline donwon

  • Posts: 143
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2018, 05:00 PM »
If the products you're spraying will primarily be paint, look at the Graco GX-19.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Quick question, are you recommending the airless sprayer due to the surface area of the projects and the HVLP sprayers would not have the capacity for this?

Thanks for your help!

I'm making the recommendation based on the product you are spraying. Airless or air assisted airless sprayers handle paints better than an HVLP. Paints can be sprayed with an HVLP, but they take more practice and trial and error.

The GX-19 was built as a finish sprayer. With the FFLP tips the gun will cover any situation. t is also easy to clean.

I have the option of a Fuji HVLP with 3 different guns and a pressure pot, Graco PC 395 AAA, Graco Triton or Graco X-19 and a 6500 PSI Airlesco. If I had to choose one it would be a toss up between the Triton because it handles lacquers a little better than the AAA, but the AAA handles paint better.

Tom

Thanks for the suggestions Tom.  A quick question, I see the Graco Ultra gets some good reviews and the down side appears to be capacity.  I don’t mind refilling this more often it it is a bit easier to use.  Is that gun a good choice in your opinion?  Look forward to your thoughts.

Thanks!

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 05:13 PM »
If the products you're spraying will primarily be paint, look at the Graco GX-19.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Quick question, are you recommending the airless sprayer due to the surface area of the projects and the HVLP sprayers would not have the capacity for this?

Thanks for your help!

I'm making the recommendation based on the product you are spraying. Airless or air assisted airless sprayers handle paints better than an HVLP. Paints can be sprayed with an HVLP, but they take more practice and trial and error.

The GX-19 was built as a finish sprayer. With the FFLP tips the gun will cover any situation. t is also easy to clean.

I have the option of a Fuji HVLP with 3 different guns and a pressure pot, Graco PC 395 AAA, Graco Triton or Graco X-19 and a 6500 PSI Airlesco. If I had to choose one it would be a toss up between the Triton because it handles lacquers a little better than the AAA, but the AAA handles paint better.

Tom

Thanks for the suggestions Tom.  A quick question, I see the Graco Ultra gets some good reviews and the down side appears to be capacity.  I don’t mind refilling this more often it it is a bit easier to use.  Is that gun a good choice in your opinion?  Look forward to your thoughts.

Thanks!

I've heard good things about them also. I have not used one, so I can't comment from experience.

Tom

Offline eddomak

  • Posts: 300
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2018, 08:00 PM »
I was doing some extremely basic finishing (2 small shelves) and having a terrible time (again!).  :-X

All I wanted to do was stain 2 baltic birch plywood shelves a very dark (almost black) walnut/chocolate colour. I think the first mistake was using foam brushes (to be disposed of easily) to apply the stain/varnish as it went on extremely unevenly. A subsequent coat or two using brushes was much better, but I still got horrible pools of laquer at the edges that I didn't know how to clean up.

Anyway, I think I need to start again, and am considering using a rattle can.  [eek]

But also considering what I might use in the future. I have been watching a lot of videos on the Graco Ultra. I know that would work for water borne paints, but would it also work for stains and clear varnishes?


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2018, 08:21 PM »
I was doing some extremely basic finishing (2 small shelves) and having a terrible time (again!).  :-X

All I wanted to do was stain 2 baltic birch plywood shelves a very dark (almost black) walnut/chocolate colour. I think the first mistake was using foam brushes (to be disposed of easily) to apply the stain/varnish as it went on extremely unevenly. A subsequent coat or two using brushes was much better, but I still got horrible pools of laquer at the edges that I didn't know how to clean up.

Anyway, I think I need to start again, and am considering using a rattle can.  [eek]

But also considering what I might use in the future. I have been watching a lot of videos on the Graco Ultra. I know that would work for water borne paints, but would it also work for stains and clear varnishes?

Did you seal the birch before staining?

What type of stain?

Spraying may look easy----it can bite you in the *** faster than you can imagine.

I believe the Ultra is the one rate for solvents. Of the 3 new hand helds only one is rated for solvents.

Tom

Offline eddomak

  • Posts: 300
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2018, 08:28 PM »
Hi Tom.

As always, thanks for your replies and experience. I am still so much on the fence for finishing even after so many months (and so much of your advice).

I am using this:
https://www.bunnings.com.au/feast-watson-250ml-gloss-chocolate-walnut-stain-and-varnish_p1520145

I didn't seal it first as I thought that it would be so dark and in such a obscured viewing place that it wouldn't matter, and wanted a "quick and easy" dark shelf to go in a cabinet I had picked up off the side of the kerb.

When doing radio control car body painting I seemed to do a lot better with a rattle can than brushes and have sprayed a couple of little jobs in the past that seem to look better than my brush jobs. The main thing was finding a decent place to spray.


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2018, 09:40 PM »
I don't use any stain/finish combos.

Tom

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2018, 01:28 AM »
If you want to go with AAA don’t buy any of the pre-packaged AAA. Plus ideally you want a diaphragm pump not a piston if you want the best out of AAA.

For example the Graco ones.   If you look at the compressor CFM outputs on the machines they are way bellow the CFM you need.

 God knows why Graco even make them because if you find out the specs on most AAA guns their CFM demand to the tip is way higher than what the compressor can deliver.

Example: finish-pro Graco PC 395 AAA  isn’t really a AAA it’s more of a  SAAA (slightly Airless air assisted)   I say slightly because the CFM is so low.  The idea of AAA is to have lower fluid pressure and then add air to atomise the paint or you might as well just go airless.   

Here’s spec on Graco PC395 AAA.   
The compressor output is 2.9 CFM @ 2.5 Bar.  Now that’s half the amount of air the graco G40 gun needs which is what they supply with the machine.  If you call graco they will tell you their G40 gun demands 7cfm at about 5bar I think. I can’t remember but I know 3CFM is far to low.

I have a Wagner Gun which demands 6CFM or more at about 4-6bar.  This means I can lower my fluid pressure right down giving me the control I need which HVLP offers with the airless power.



The AAA is the best all rounder to be honest.  You have benefit of airless with the benefit of HVLP combined into one.
If you wanted you can have an airless gun and go airless  so no need to have a compressor. Then when you need a really fine finish  swap gun bang compressor back on and your back on AAA.


So if you plan on going proper  AAA don’t bother with the gimmicks Graco and others offer.  Just buy a decent Airless pump and a decent compressor and get your self a twin hose and AA gun. 

That’s best way to go airless all for pretty much the same money but you have more to show for it. 


Now you have two main pump types you have piston and diaphragm.

Graco airless are mainly Piston this is fine for airless and to be honest is fine for AAA.  However you need a slightly oversized piston pump with good fluid rate  to reduce fluctuations in the fluid pressure.  Again Graco sell their AAA package with 295, 395 and 595 pumps. Now I think the 295 is way underpowered and maybe even the 395.  Yet the 595 might be overkill it’s like they missed out the 495 which is the ideal size and power 😂. 

Graco also make diaphragm pumps yet they don’t offer that in a portable AAA package 😂.

It’s almost like Graco have done everything possible to make a poor AAA setup.   




You go with diaphragm pump which eliminates this fluctuation in pressure giving you a much better finish.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 01:33 AM by jmbfestool »
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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2018, 01:02 PM »
Did some spraying today.

I set my airless pump at lowest pressure I thought I could go about 1000psi / 70bar fluid pressure

Sprayed on my wall and as you can see I got tails. Two lines either side of the spray pattern.

So if it was just airless I can either increase the pressure a lot more like 2000psi or higher on the fluid pressure  and get rid of the tails or thin the paint down so it sprays out easier or change tip size. 

OR

because it’s an AAA setup I can add air to the tip.   The middle spray pattern in the picture is same fluid pressure all I done was add a little bit of air and it’s got rid of the tails

Now what are the benefits to this.

I have less fluid pressure so less wear on the pump.
I have less pressure this means less overspray and dust in the air.
I have a finer spray
I can control my spray width from the widest the flat tip lets me down by 2/3 it’s width with out the need of changing over tips for different fan widths.
I have more fluid control so I don’t have so much fluid flying out like you do with airless.  Which is good for smaller narrow parts.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2018, 01:07 PM by jmbfestool »
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Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 124
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2018, 03:24 PM »
If you want to go with AAA don’t buy any of the pre-packaged AAA. Plus ideally you want a diaphragm pump not a piston if you want the best out of AAA.

Thank you for posting this. I have been looking at AAA for awhile now. I have an extra Titan 440 I think will be perfect for this.
I'll call my sales rep for pricing on a G40.

Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2018, 12:27 PM »
@Getmaverick

I would find out more about the G40 first before buying one.

They have a high air demand so a very good compressor would be needed to use the gun to its full potential.

Maybe look at other AA guns to buy for your AAA system and check first for the air CFM/pressure demands so you know what compressor is needed to power the gun.

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Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6625
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2018, 12:45 PM »
@Getmaverick



Here is a picture of a chart for the graco G40

There are two lines now you would have to ask Graco or some one because I don’t what the open and closed valve does on the G40 but as you can see it affects the air intake a lot!

Spraying at 2.5 bar to 5 bar isn’t unreasonable.... the gun can handle 7bar air pressure.

So at 2.5 so about 40psi on the chart you need a compressor to supply CFM 5.8 to 10.6

Almost double. 

A decent size workshop compressor would be able supply the higher cfm but a portable compressor would struggle even on the lower demand

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Offline Getmaverick

  • Posts: 124
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2018, 02:00 PM »
Thanks for the reply. This will be for shop use. I do have a large shop compressor that will work.
I'm still waiting on pricing from my sales rep. He is gone till Thursday.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5710
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2018, 11:42 PM »
I rarely if ever spray with the air pressure on the AAA over 20 psi. I'm normally 14-16 psi.

The fan valve varies the width of the fan.

Tom

Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 157
Re: Recommendations for a spraying setup
« Reply #22 on: February 01, 2018, 12:34 AM »
One thing you’ll need consider if you’re gonna use your shop compressor is that you’ll have to filter the air before it enters the gun. Air compressors produce all kinds of contaminants such as water and oil that can ruin your finish.




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