Author Topic: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?  (Read 2256 times)

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Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 81
Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« on: August 26, 2017, 03:14 PM »
Just sprayed 26 cabinet doors with Zinsser Bin shellac based primer for my workshop build.  Used a Devilbiss Finishline HVLP gun with 1.8 mm tip, and it went well... until the cleanup.  I swear cleaning the gun and cup was more stressful than the actual spraying.  Took the gun apart, and used methyl hydrate (denatured alcohol), first on its own, then mixed with window cleaner, which is what the instructions recommended.  It eventually worked, but took forever with brushes, toothpicks, and a scouring pad to get all the congealed primer bits out of the gun and off the cup walls.  For a while there I was worried I had ruined my gun.  So are there any tricks for cleaning a gun after using BIN, or is this just the way it is with shellac primer?

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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 5059
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2017, 03:52 PM »
Krud Cutter.

Tom

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1173
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2017, 04:05 PM »
Perhaps the MH you're using is has too much water and or methanol in it instead of high concentrate of ethanol ...........and that is what is actually the solvent that works on BIN?

I'm only speculating on this.  It's been a long time since I paid attention in Chemistry class but I do remember that xtra carbons can wreck havoc on things.  I know MH is generally accepted as a substitute for denatured alcohol, but it's not really the same thing in a chemists eyes.  Perhaps that's why it was difficult to clean.

I also think that the BIN instructions say to clean with ammonia mixed with water.  You may have gotten 0% ammonia depending on what window cleaner you used.  And even if the flavor you used contained it, was it 25% of the content ?

What you described sounds like you didn't have the right or enough solvent.   [unsure]

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 81
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2017, 04:28 PM »
Good tips.  Going to try to find better solvent.  The MH I used was the cheap stuff from the local big box store. None of them have anything specifically called denatured alcohol / ethanol, it's all MH.  I checked the window cleaner... it was blue but in retrospect it didn't actually say ammonia on it.  Probably some blend of alcohol or glycol.  darn it.  I'll have to pay more attention to the fine print for the active ingredients next time.

Offline J0hn

  • Posts: 54
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2017, 06:15 PM »
I have always just used 'denatured alcohol' and never had a problem with cleanup

I just checked my can - it's a gallon of Klean Strip that I got from either Lowes or Home Depot.  I see HD lists it for $16 a gallon

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-gal-SLX-Denatured-Alcohol-Cleaner-GSL26/100139444

Here it is at a slightly higher price from amazon
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B001EMB2A0?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-def00-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-pcomp-wm-2-wm-3-wm-1-wl-ask0&ref=bit_pcomp_smile

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1173
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2017, 07:02 PM »
that stuff is a good example of what I'm talking about.  The Kleen Strip contains 40-60% methanol.

We'd have to ask Zinnser, but I'm guessing they were using/recommending  ethanol for their cleaning regime.   [unsure] [unsure] [unsure]

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 81
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2017, 12:23 PM »
I have always just used 'denatured alcohol' and never had a problem with cleanup

I just checked my can - it's a gallon of Klean Strip that I got from either Lowes or Home Depot.  I see HD lists it for $16 a gallon

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1-gal-SLX-Denatured-Alcohol-Cleaner-GSL26/100139444

Here it is at a slightly higher price from amazon
https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B001EMB2A0?tag=amz-mkt-chr-us-20&ascsubtag=1ba00-01000-org00-def00-other-smile-us000-pcomp-feature-pcomp-wm-2-wm-3-wm-1-wl-ask0&ref=bit_pcomp_smile

A quick search on the Canadian sites comes up empty.  Can't find ethanol / DA in any of the big box stores locally (Ontario, Canada), only "methyl hydrate".  Maybe Lee Valley, but they're expensive and I don't live near them.  I wonder if it's a regulation thing, or if my city just sucks for availability.  A lot of products are now saying low VOC, green formula etc., and not compatible chemistry.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 12:29 PM by QuailRider43 »

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

  • Posts: 1000
    • Jim Kirkpatrick Woodworking
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2017, 12:41 PM »
Lacquer thinner.

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 81
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2017, 01:14 PM »
Ok, further searching has revealed that in Canada it is indeed much harder to get something actually called DA, i.e. ethanol based.  Apparently pharmacies and farm supply stores can carry 99% pure "rubbing alcohol" that is ethanol or isopropyl based, and you can also find ethanol based marine stove fuel at camping supply stores.

Edit
This looks promising:
https://www.rona.ca/en/ethanol-02635051
« Last Edit: August 27, 2017, 01:21 PM by QuailRider43 »

Offline bobfog

  • Posts: 823
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2017, 01:23 PM »
Acetone? I feel your pain, I love BIN for certain applications, but would never put it through my HVLP as I know how much of a b*itch it is to clean up!

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1502
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2017, 02:30 PM »
I started my working journey as a hand stainer in a commercial custom kitchen factory.  All spray guns not being used were kept in a closed bin of laquer thinner.  In the nine years I worked there I was involved in all aspects of finishing.  I have and still use commercial acetone as the final rinse of anything run through my guns some of which are 30 years old...Binks #18, bought for me by customer for refinishing her kitchen.  Sure wish I'd had Festool sanders back then!!

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3452
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2017, 03:06 PM »
Ok, further searching has revealed that in Canada it is indeed much harder to get something actually called DA, i.e. ethanol based.

Stupid nanny state.

DA, Acetone available at Sherwin Williams pro stores or order it from Amazon.ca. Don't joke around when you buy this, they are deadly serious about the idiotic government regulations on this stuff.
Tim

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 441
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2017, 03:48 PM »
I'd have to use a respirator with a organic cartridge if I used any acetone, don't know about the rest of you?
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1173
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2017, 04:20 PM »
When using DA for a stove fuel; the methanol is actually a welcome addition.  It doesn't soot as much as pure ethanol does.

Offline rst

  • Posts: 1502
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2017, 05:43 PM »
A note to cleaning with acetone...do not spray indoors...almost as flammable as lacquer thinner.  I always do my clean up out doors.

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 732
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2017, 06:50 PM »
Copied from the products Technical Data Sheet

CLEAN-UP
Clean up spills and paint drips with denatured alcohol or
ammoniated detergent. If spills or drips have dried, use
denatured alcohol or ammoniated detergent to soften and
remove primer. Wash application tools in a solution of 1
part ammonia and 3 parts water immediately after use. If
product has dried on application tools, soak tools
overnight in a solution of equal parts ammonia and water.
Scrub clean with a stiff brush. Follow equipment
manufacturer’s directions to clean spray equipment.
Dispose of unused or unwanted product in accordance
with local laws regulating water-based coatings.

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1173
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2017, 07:45 PM »
I think the question at the heart of the matter is what exactly Zinnser's chemists consider "denatured alcohol" to be.

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 81
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2017, 02:01 AM »
That and the fact that my "ammonia" cleaner that I used didn't actually have any ammonia in it  ::)  So I was cleaning my gun with methanol instead of ethanol, and non-ammonia window cleaner.  No wonder it took so long to rub off.

Offline wptski

  • Posts: 441
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2017, 05:24 AM »
That and the fact that my "ammonia" cleaner that I used didn't actually have any ammonia in it  ::)  So I was cleaning my gun with methanol instead of ethanol, and non-ammonia window cleaner.  No wonder it took so long to rub off.
Yes, they have that type of window cleaner now a days which by the way, I found out is worthless in some cases.
Bill
Most Confused!

Offline Neal W

  • Posts: 103
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2017, 02:03 PM »
Just did this last night, and my cup and gun are still soaking.....

Seeing this post was quite timely.

Turning perfectly good lumber into scrap and sawdust for more than 20 years!

Offline QuailRider43

  • Posts: 81
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2017, 10:53 PM »
Is it safe to assume that the seals in most HVLP guns are acetone compatible?

Offline brewster201

  • Posts: 57
Re: Zinsser Bin primer HVLP gun clean up. Any tricks?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2017, 08:25 AM »
I have been using a 2.5 Liter Ultrasonic cleaner/heated tank and using a diluted orange citrus cleaner degreaser 10-1 ratio
Cleans gun and parts perfect. 
Hand Woodworking