Forum Re-Design

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
We're approaching the one-year anniversary of the new Festool Owners Group.  Throughout the first year, what you have seen is the "default" forum layout -- the most basic visual design.  Behind the scenes, I've been working on developing a more welcoming and unique design.  From the beginning, I've wanted this forum to be different in as many ways as possible, and that includes the way it looks and feels when people visit.  To do that, I want to move away from the default appearance.

Well, after many hours tweaking hundreds of lines of computer code and gathering knowledge from numerous technical sites, I'm proud to announce a major forum re-design.

Since this is a big change, I want members to have time to preview what's ahead before it becomes official.  To do this, I created a "test forum," which shows what the forum will look like when the re-design is launched.  Everyone is invited to browse the test forum, post a message or two over there, play with all the functions, then report back here.  Dan Clark has already spent quite some time in the test forum ahead of other members, and I've incorporated several of his ideas.


Logo Design
When you go into the test forum, you'll notice that the logo (the water-drop image) is kind of rough.  That's intentional.  Between now and the launch of the re-designed forum, there will be a "logo contest" in which members will have opportunities to submit logo designs.  To see more about the logo contest, click here.


Timeline for the rollout of the re-designed forum

• 1/15/08: Invite members to browse the test forum.
• 1/15/08: Announce the logo contest.
• 1/15/08 - 1/31/08: Gather comments about the re-designed forum, and, if necessary, make final design changes.
• 1/15/08 - 2/5/08: Gather entries for the logo contest.
• 2/8/08: Announce the winner and runners-up for the logo contest.
• 2/8/08: Launch the re-design in the main forum.

I'm sure we'll hear many opinions about the re-design.  I'll try to include as many of your ideas as possible, but I may not be able to include every single one.  I'm confident that, over the next few weeks, all of this will come together and the re-deigned forum will offer a better experience for everyone.  Even after the re-design is launched, member feedback will always be welcome.


See the re-design now!
To get a preview of the re-designed forum, follow this link:
http://www.festoolownersgroup.com/TestForum/index.php

Sign in with this information:
Username: test
Password: test


Matthew

[jonny round boy]

Matthew,

I've just had a very quick look at the test site, and I had an immediate 1st reaction, so I thought I share it with you. I really, really don't like the font used (georgia?) (I had to try hard not to use the word 'hate' in that sentence!).

Sorry to focus on the negative, but that was my first impression.

I realise that a lot of people (myself included, probably) react badly to changes simply because they are different from what they're used to - I'll have another look and give some feedback on the other aspects of the design later.

[greg mann]

I would have to say the font is not my favorite either but it is not quite the same emotional issue for me.

[Craig Earls]

I don't seem to exist...

[Jim Dailey]

Matthew,

What you have created here in the FOG was a great improvement over the Yahoo site.  I don't want to fault your initiative on trying to improve the current FOG, but it seems to me creating a whole new forum to be a lot of work for small visual improvements....   Maybe I a missing something...  But there is something to the old saying "if it works don't 'fix' it..."

I do very much appreciate all your hard work on making this forum a positive experience.

jim

[tvgordon]

I couldn't even log in.  It said to check my cookie settings.  Hmmm, chocolate chip does sound good!

Tom.

[CharlesWilson]

I guess I am a little slow, but I ended up registering my name in the 'new' forum. It didn't recognize my login from this one. I am sure you will move all that information over when things are finalized.

Of course, I didn't read your original post to the end, where it said to login as test/test. Lazy me!

I, personally, don't have any problems with the existing forum.

Will you be able to move everything from this forum over to there?

Charles

[Matthew Schenker]

Will you be able to move everything from this forum over to there?

Nothing needs to be moved.  When we are ready, I will apply the new design to the current forum.  The content itself does not get altered.
Matthew

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
I just changed the board structure in the test forum so it is the same as the board structure in the main forum.  That should make it easier for people to review what it will look like in the end.
Matthew

[Matthew Schenker]

What you have created here in the FOG was a great improvement over the Yahoo site.  I don't want to fault your initiative on trying to improve the current FOG, but it seems to me creating a whole new forum to be a lot of work for small visual improvements....   Maybe I a missing something...  But there is something to the old saying "if it works don't 'fix' it..."

Keep in mind that I'm not creating a whole new forum.  It's still SMF software, with all the same functions and design under the hood.  That's why I was careful to call it a "re-design," not a new forum.

I like SMF, and would not change it as the basis for the forum.  However, we have been using the "default" SMF template or "skin."  The re-design is a way of changing that skin, without altering the core functions of the forum.

I've always wanted this forum to have a more unique appearance, something that more closely represents the tools we discuss.  The trick, of course, is to keep what works, and add what will make it better.  That's what I'm trying to do with the new design.

Matthew

[Matthew Schenker]

I've just had a very quick look at the test site, and I had an immediate 1st reaction, so I thought I share it with you. I really, really don't like the font used (georgia?) (I had to try hard not to use the word 'hate' in that sentence!).

Sorry to focus on the negative, but that was my first impression.

Good eye -- I am in fact using Georgia font.  It was a close call on fonts.  There were two or three that I like, but Georgia seemed to present a nice, clear impact.  The font used for the main forum is Verdana.  Anyway, the font is easy to change.

I realise that a lot of people (myself included, probably) react badly to changes simply because they are different from what they're used to - I'll have another look and give some feedback on the other aspects of the design later.

I knew going into this that people might react negatively because of the change in what they are used to seeing.  That's why I created the test forum.  People can browse, get accustomed to it, and if something really doesn't work I can change it.

Matthew

[Eli]

I don't know that I don't like the font necessarily, but it does seem a little harder for me to read. The overall feel seems a little bit colder in some way. I'd be willing to admit I like what I'm used to more. I do appreciate all the hard work Matthew.

[SRSemenza]

Hi,

  I much prefer the current font. The current font also seems a little larger, is it?  I don't know if the new look has enough difference to be unique. Something about it looks ..hmm... not sure what word I am looking for ... maybe "commercial'?    
     Color wise I think the grey is fine (maybe make it a little lighter) but I have no problem with the current multi tone blue. For the most part it doesn't seem that much different. The only thing that I see that I would particularly not care for is the font.

            In truth I sort of liked the small tweaks you were doing in the current format.

        Do I have the correct understanding that the entire water drop header will be replaced?

Seth

[SRSemenza]

Hi,

    I just took a second look.   Actually the grey seems good. And I see that there is a lighter shade used for that bottom bar. 
    Ummm..  I think the pink shading for the quote boxes needs to go. How about really light grey, to keep with the Festool them?

Seth

[Matthew Schenker]

        Do I have the correct understanding that the entire water drop header will be replaced?

Yes, that's what the logo contest is all about.
Matthew

[Matthew Schenker]

It looks like Georgia is not a big favorite here!  I changed the font back to Verdana.
Matthew

[SRSemenza]

Matthew,

  Yup,  one vote for Verdana.


Seth

[AndrewDS]

I actually really like the test forum.  I think the dark colors make it a lot easier to see.  I also like that whatever heading the mouse is on changes colors, which stands in contrast to just underlining.  I also like that the menu on the top header is larger and easier to read.  Of course, these are initial reactions, but on the whole I really like it!  Good job!

One question:

Will the new forum have a way to "mark" what subject or board one has already read?

[Ned]

Matthew--

I didn't want to be the first to say this, but I'm perfectly satisfied with the current theme for the forum.  My only hope for any redesign is that it be as clear and easy to use as FOG is now.

Although I don't know what's available in the SMF catalog, I'd rather see added functionality and continued tweaking.  It's working well.

Ned

[Fred West]

Matthew, I for one am completely digging the new changes. However, if the new Turbo Encabulator is not incorporated well then you can just count me out.  Fred

[Craig Earls]

I for one prefer the

retro encabulator

because of it superior documentation.

But back to point, I like the new design, and the verdana,  I got caught by the test/test thing too...

[Matthew Schenker]

I'm going to try and keep up on everyone's comments and feedback here, and tweak the re-design as we go along.  After all, that's the point of introducing a test site!

I actually really like the test forum.  I think the dark colors make it a lot easier to see.  I also like that whatever heading the mouse is on changes colors, which stands in contrast to just underlining.  I also like that the menu on the top header is larger and easier to read.  Of course, these are initial reactions, but on the whole I really like it!  Good job!

One question:

Will the new forum have a way to "mark" what subject or board one has already read?

Thanks!  Your points about the colors and menu design are my thinking as well.
The new forum will have all the same functionality as the current one.  Remember, it is the same core software, just a different "skin."

Matthew--

I didn't want to be the first to say this, but I'm perfectly satisfied with the current theme for the forum.  My only hope for any redesign is that it be as clear and easy to use as FOG is now.

Although I don't know what's available in the SMF catalog, I'd rather see added functionality and continued tweaking.  It's working well.

The problem with the current theme is that is it not distinctive enough.  If you browse around the Internet, you'll see several sites that use SMF with the default theme.  I want this site to have its own look, while still using the excellent core functions of SMF.  The re-design will certainly be as clear and easy to use as the default theme -- even more so.

As far as "continued tweaking" goes, the re-design does not change any of that.  I will continue to twek functions here and there to respond to members' ideas and requests, just as I have done in the default theme.  Remember, even though it looks very different, we are not talking about a new forum, but a re-design of the visual elements.

Matthew, I for one am completely digging the new changes. However, if the new Turbo Encabulator is not incorporated well then you can just count me out.  Fred

Thanks for the feedback.  Well, I can't promise to include the Encabulator!  Hopefully, there will be other elements that keep you interested!

Matthew

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
I think it would help us get a better sense of the re-design if there was a "real" logo in the header of the test forum.
As we get contributions from the logo contest, I'll install various ones as we go along.  I've just installed the first logo contest entry, provided by Scott W.  Check the test site to see what I mean.
Matthew

[Fred West]

Mathew, I really like Scott W. design. However, the section that tells us we have messages is almost completely obscured. So if that portion could be moved lower or defined better I really like this first entry. Fred

[Matthew Schenker]

Fred,
Yes, I just adjusted the background color to take care of that.  Check the test site!
Matthew

[SRSemenza]

One question:

Will the new forum have a way to "mark" what subject or board one has already read?

Matthew,   
     
     Will the big letter F  continue this job by being colored or un-colored?   The color/ no color  really stands out nicely in its current form.  If the  F  was to be changed to a different symbol how about something representitive of each catagory?  Or a Systainer Latch that opens and closes?

Seth

[Matthew Schenker]

     Will the big letter F  continue this job by being colored or un-colored?   The color/ no color  really stands out nicely in its current form.  If the  F  was to be changed to a different symbol how about something representitive of each catagory?  Or a Systainer Latch that opens and closes?

I've thought about this before -- creating lively "new post indicators" for each board.  Right now, my plan is to continue using the "F" symbol, but I am open to new ideas, and now is definitely this is the right time to do it with a re-design in the works.

If you have some ideas to share, go ahead and post some samples and let's see what people think.  My one request is that you create a new discussion for "new post indicators" (or whatever name you choose).

Thanks for the ideas.

Matthew

[Fred West]

Matthew, I just refreshed and then logged out and back in. "Hello test" "You have" and "0 are new" are all easily read but not the rest. Fred PS Maybe it is just my monitor but it is brand new and a 19" Flat Screen so i will be very upset if this is the case.

[Matthew Schenker]

Matthew, I just refreshed and then logged out and back in. "Hello test" "You have" and "0 are new" are all easily read but not the rest. Fred PS Maybe it is just my monitor but it is brand new and a 19" Flat Screen so i will be very upset if this is the case.

Just to make sure, are you saying that you have trouble viewing these lines:
Show unread posts since last visit.
Show new replies to your posts.

I lightened the font for that region, so it should be clearer now.

Check it again and let me know.

Thanks,
Matthew

[Ned]

In the area that Fred reported, the gray text (color= #bcbcbc) on the blue background (#3d71ad) solidly fails all three color contrast tests.  Within the range of acceptable screen tuning, some screens will display this worse than others.

In general, "reverse" display, that is, lighter text on a darker background, does not work well, particularly for older eyes.  Try a site that uses a black background and light gray for the text...they may as well have a secret password that no one over 40 knows...

Fred, nothing wrong with your monitor.  The color combination doesn't look good on mine either.

Matthew, as I understand it, the new logo will be the background for this area, so perhaps this particular problem will go away on its own.

For fun and amusement, check out Web Pages That Suck.  He's just completed his ranking of the 10 worst sites of 2007.

Ned