Member-Only Access

[Matthew Schenker]

Everyone,
Up to this point, the forum has been fully accessible by both members and guests (except for photos).

Starting Monday, May 12, the forum will be accessible only to members.  Visitors without a forum account will not be able to browse the boards.

This means that all visitors will be presented with a sign-in box before seeing the forum posts.  If a visitor does not have an account, he or she will be prompted to obtain one.

Thanks everyone,
Matthew

[Brice Burrell]

Matthew, this is interesting, can explain the reason for the change?

[woodshopdemos]

Matthew,
   Please do explain. I am opposed to it. The FOG is a location for us, users to exchange ideas BUT is also a place where non=Festool owners can get an idea from us users how the system works.  I often reach a forum or website that asks to sign up/sign in and it is a turn off and I don't. It just represents a deterrent to my learning and one more chance for my name/information to be stored.

[Frank Pellow]

My guess is that this will cut down considerably on the traffic here.  

The initial effect will probably be an increase in membersship as current lurkers sign up.  But, in the long run, my guess is that it will result in fewer new members because people are used to sampling things on the internet before they sign up for them (even at no cost).

I have never belonged to a forum with this restriction, so it will be interesting to watch the experiment.

[Per Swenson]

Matthew,

Its your forum.

Alas I don't believe this is a good idea.

I will however entertain any one good reason why you would consider doing this.

Per

[kit camp]

Matthew,

I have to throw in with these other guys. It's a big turn off to me when I have to register somewhere just to read. Posting is another thing, however.

I'd like to hear your reasoning as well...

Wouldn't this be a lot more work for you?

- Kit

[jonny round boy]

For the record, I agree with Kit, Per, Frank, et al.

I don't like the idea of having to register just to read posts. I have in the past, whilst searching on t'interweb, found sites that just present you with a registration page when you're looking for information. I just ignore them, and move to the next search result. I don't like having to register on a forum I know nothing about, I prefer to see if the forum is any good before registering (since registration involves giving e-mail addresses, and I don't like giving my addresses to unknowns, who could be potential spammers).

I think this would be a backward step, IMHO.

But if there is a good reason for it, then OK, but I can't see any plus-point to this at the moment.

[poto]

Gotta say, I agree with the above...

[Matrix]

I am new to the site but I have to agree that limiting access may reduce future membership.

[Tezzer]

Ouch..... What a great way to stuff up a great forum.



Why on earth would you want to join a forum just to see what it contains?

Bad, bad move

[Per Swenson]

Uh oh,

What's that smell?

Torch's and pitchforks?

[Forrest Anderson]

Everyone,
Up to this point, the forum has been fully accessible by both members and guests (except for photos).

Starting Monday, May 12, the forum will be accessible only to members.  Visitors without a forum account will not be able to browse the boards.

This means that all visitors will be presented with a sign-in box before seeing the forum posts.  If a visitor does not have an account, he or she will be prompted to obtain one.

My first reaction was not whether it was a good or bad idea, but that it appears to be one of the few times you haven't consulted members beforehand on a change. Although some of the discussions about forthcoming changes can result in very long threads, where some members no doubt start thinking "come on, let's stop talking, and get on and do it"), at least members can't complain that their views haven't been taken into account!

In this case, the tone has changed to "this is what's happening, like it or not, and I don't want any discussion". Now that this sort of precedent has been set, one can't being a bit nervous that in a few weeks time we'll all wake up to find an announcement along the lines of "This forum will only be available to subscribers, at a cost of ___ per month", or something radical like that.

As to whether it's a good idea, I agree with every one else so far, and if I had been asked(!), would have voted against it.

Forrest

[Michael Kellough]

Matthew, is this the hole in the dike I've been looking for?

If I make my contribution will you rescind this policy? 

[Ned]

Matthew,

Your decision to close the board to guests is troubling.

Requiring registration in order to see anything undermines one of the most important goals of the forum, that is to give people browsing some idea of what we do here, to provide a warm welcome to those curious about Festool.  Requiring registration instantly raises a wall with a closed gate.

I am interested to hear what reasons outweigh that.  I'm certain that you are addressing very real problems, but I cannot believe that this drastic step is the right solution.

Ned

[Brice Burrell]

Guys, lets hear what Matthew has to say first before we start getting out the torches and pitchforks. I'd guess it has to do with guests consuming a great deal of this site bandwidth, I just check the all (Festool) tools section, 15 members and 54 guests.

[David Ross]

   Mathew


  And David makes fourteen!!!!!!!!!!

 I too, am troubled by this move.

 I won't join any forum until I can see what the tone and nature of the
 interaction is.

 And, of course, all of the STUFF I must provide in order to join.

  Thanks,   David

[Paul Franklin]

Matthew

THis is very bad idea. I think it may affect people wanting to get into the Festool line. I just don't see why you would do this!

It seems very snooby to people looking to join.

Just my 2c

Paul

[Roger Savatteri]

I could only imagine a first time rider through the kingdom riding through the forest with his/her sustainers stacked behind.

Coming across this beautiful castle with green flags flying from the turrets.

With a drawbridge over a very wide moat, raised very high.

A sign reading "Tariff required - Even for Peeking"

......and the rider with valuable knowledge turning around going back into the forest.

Thinking " I probably would have joined if I could have seen the beauty of the castle inside"

[CharlesWilson]

I had noticed in the past that when I accessed the board as a non-member (from another person's computer), they were not able to see all of the wonderful photographs and other content that are posted. It is not obvious to non-members that they are missing a lot of our content.

On the plus side, this will assure that people visiting the FOG will better understand what we are talking about.

[Ned]

It seems very snooby to people looking to join.

I wondered if this was a typo, but the Urban Dictionary defines it as "snootiness and snobbery, combined and magnified".

It also will seem snoopy.

Ned

[nickao]

Something obviously happened we are not aware of and must have been Matthews breaking point. Wow, I leave the forum for two days and what changes!

I have no problem with it as it's Mathews  forum. I know at least 3 woodworking forums where this is the case. And most every forum prohibits looking at pics and definitley posting without registering anyway.

This is the only forum where the administrator always asked the participants what they wanted and it seemed strange to me to begin with. Maybe now instead of 3500 people just reading while 20 people are posting will change. I would rather have 50% of the amount of people reading if the participation number grew in percentage. Too many people are just looking and not participating. The membership numbers have not increased that much, but the amount of guest reading has. And I for one was terribly hurt by the lack of donations. I think now the donations received will be more in the line with the future bandwidth of this forum.

Matthew asked us nicely to step up and enough people didn't. For the people that are members and did not donate, what did you really think the ramifications would be if you did  not donate? This is still better than requiring a donation isn't it?

Nickao

[Don T]

I'm with Brice, Matthew has to have a good reason for making such a drastic change.  I will say that I would not have joined if I could not test drive for a short time.

[Dave Rudy]

Have to agree with many others -- a remarkably bad idea.

[Tezzer]

Matthew, do the right thing.....explain yourself or quit this daft idea.

Schwanker

Schwanker, do the right thing and out yourself

[nickao]

Everyone,
Up to this point, the forum has been fully accessible by both members and guests (except for photos).

Starting Monday, May 12, the forum will be accessible only to members.  Visitors without a forum account will not be able to browse the boards.

This means that all visitors will be presented with a sign-in box before seeing the forum posts.  If a visitor does not have an account, he or she will be prompted to obtain one.

Thanks everyone,
Matthew

This is a big error. Apart from taking a high handed approach for (possibly) the first time, you have failed to explain your thinking.

You know very well that Festool owners are, by definition, hungry for knowledge and up until now you have catered for us.

Now you are looking like Robert Mugabe (or E ba gum, an old English northern expression of disquiet).

Matthew, do the right thing.....explain yourself or quit this daft idea.

Schwanker

Now that is not the best first post I have ever read. If it took this may 12th thing for you to sign up and be a member and participate, then I think it just worked.

[Ned]

Schwanker,

Your nom de forum is a direct insult to Matthew Schenker.  I don't care how you decided on it or what your intention was.  I urge you to drop it and choose some other name.

Other than that, good first post and welcome to the forum.

Ned

[joraft]

Guys, lets hear what Matthew has to say first before we start getting out the torches and pitchforks...

I agree, Brice. It's hard to form any final opinion about this without knowing more about what's behind the move.

And as was said earlier, the most puzzling aspect of this is Matthew's abrupt approach (and then silence), it seems so completely out of character for him, especially with such a major change.



John

[Roger Savatteri]

Everyone,
Up to this point, the forum has been fully accessible by both members and guests (except for photos).

Starting Monday, May 12, the forum will be accessible only to members.  Visitors without a forum account will not be able to browse the boards.

This means that all visitors will be presented with a sign-in box before seeing the forum posts.  If a visitor does not have an account, he or she will be prompted to obtain one.

Thanks everyone,
Matthew

Something just occurred to me, Matthew is asking that everybody sign in with a forum account to browse.

He's not necessarily asking people to pay to browse, just to sign in.

so what's the issue??

I believe you could have an account without being a forum supporter as I was in my lurking stage.

Just an observation.

[nickao]

Exactly he is not asking anyone to pay. To me, lurking is like listening in to a conversation while the  people speaking are not aware. Why is not okay to listen in on people talking, but it is totally expected by so many to be able to read posts on the internet without letting others know you are there. It's the same thing really. My biggest issue on other forums were people taking others ideas and presenting them as their own. It is so simple to do when you are a lurker. But once signed in its pretty obvious to know who stole an idea. This is one of many things that is better then allowing anyone to read without at least making some kind of sign in.

Some forums require you use you real name. To me that is far worse than just asking the common courtesy of joining and providing a user name. Thats all it is providing, a user name. No money, no email required, really your actual identity never even need be given if you do not want too. This is not a big deal. People against this are saying it will limit growth. Well what the heck does it matter to them that the forum grows or not?

Nickao

[Per Swenson]

I don't think that's it.

In America, Festool is far from a mainstream brand or tool.

Some people in my circles consider Festool a overpriced imported brand,

a elitist tool better suited to the well off hobbiest,

useless in the construction industry. Yup tool bigots.

Though I joke about keeping my competition in the dark for selfish reason's,

In the spirit of the brotherhood of carpentry I try to my best to change  this myth.

Reinforcing the elitist image does not help my cause of enlightenment.

Per