Author Topic: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?  (Read 9483 times)

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Offline Untidy Shop

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Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« on: July 19, 2015, 04:26 AM »
Is the FOG sexist?
Before you rush to either agree or disagree, have a look at the following threads -

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/review-of-the-carpenters-stationery-set/msg407029/?topicseen;PHPSESSID=806tehpipguj17k8lplvhtkl21#msg407029
Read the first post, then Replys #2 and 4, and then Replys #9 to 13.
Without judgement, does anyone see the irony?

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/kayleen-mccabe/msg346843/#msg346843
This thread was heavily edited by Shane at the time, with quite a few posts removed.

I freely admit to my own 'sexism' at times on the FOG. I often refer to Ms Untidy as 'senior management' and I certainly appreciate one members hamburger based avatar.  [smile] 

Peter H in Reply #4 in the first referenced thread says-Sexist comments are not welcomed here.  Are there more males here than females?  I am sure that there are but that is merely a reflection of the professions or hobbyists using the tools.

For many members, including myself, one benefit of the FOG is that of an on line mens' shed. Consequently, do certain types of conversations naturally occasionally flow [or not]?!

« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 04:38 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Online Kev

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2015, 04:49 AM »
I'm going to go with "predominantly No"

Certainly there's a lot of conversations that play to the very typical husband and wife relationship over domestic activities ... the cooking and cleaning, pottering about in the workshop, etc. But this is just real life experience sharing .. it's reality, not sexism. I'm sure you'd get similar domestic splits in a  relationship as well!

I'd go as far to say that most FOG jibes commonly relate to the female of the relationship being a deciding factor in most things relating to serious decisions, spends, etc and our underlying little boy naughtiness in wanting to be sneaky in acquiring toys, tools, etc.




Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2015, 08:57 AM »
I'm going to go with "predominantly No"

Certainly there's a lot of conversations that play to the very typical husband and wife relationship over domestic activities ... . . . . . .etc and our underlying little boy naughtiness in wanting to be sneaky in acquiring toys, tools, etc.

Yes Kev there are a lot of naughty little boys on the FOG,
including you and I.  [eek] [big grin]
@Kev
« Last Edit: July 19, 2015, 09:17 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Alan m

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2015, 06:18 PM »
I can say I never get a sence of sexism on the fog
all women are welcomed the same as men
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Online Kev

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2015, 06:45 PM »
I think my wife lurks to keep an eye on me ...


Offline charley1968

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2015, 06:55 PM »
I think you gotta ask the ladies here. I haven't read anything i'd consider to be sexist..
Just for today..

Online Kev

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2015, 07:01 PM »
I think you gotta ask the ladies here. I haven't read anything i'd consider to be sexist..

So ... your saying you need to be a woman to make a call on whether something is sexist?

That would actually be sexist ! [wink]

Offline charley1968

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2015, 07:15 PM »
No. Yes. I'm saying that a lot of men don't even realize when they're sexist. That's why i say: Ask the ladies. If that's sexist in itself, so be it.
Just for today..

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2015, 07:58 PM »
Sexist? not really.

Sausage fest? For sure.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2015, 02:53 PM »
Hey waits minute, If you  guys are commenting about me making my wife haul my goodies around the woodworking shows, how is that sexist?

Im all for equal opportunity by letting her pitch in an and carry my things around while I look at the demos etc...

Im teaching her life lessons when she's crying about her hands going numb and not feeling her legs .

I mean I hold her purse when she goes and trys on clothes during the blue moon when I go shopping with her...
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline #Tee

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2015, 05:07 PM »
does it matter? yes it is or not its not. nothing changes lol
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2015, 05:34 PM »
does it matter? yes it is or not its not. nothing changes lol

Wether it is or isn't; as an issue, any implied sexism does matter -
FOG is supported by a Multinational company with gender equity policies and consequently the FOG should be welcoming and inclusive to both genders.



@#Tee
« Last Edit: October 19, 2015, 05:50 PM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline #Tee

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2015, 06:01 PM »
im just saying is it going to stop you from doing what you do here. if it matters then its fog's issue imo.
When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

Online Shane Holland

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2015, 06:09 PM »
The proportion of male to female forum members is just indicative of the same proportions in the trades. It's just a male-dominated profession.

I think Scott put it best.  [big grin]
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Offline jobsworth

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2015, 03:19 AM »
does it matter? yes it is or not its not. nothing changes lol

Wether it is or isn't; as an issue, any implied sexism does matter -
FOG is supported by a Multinational company with gender equity policies and consequently the FOG should be welcoming and inclusive to both genders.



@#Tee

what matters to me is your lack of a sense of humour. All my post which you keep referring to are all in humour.

I think your the one with a problem.

That problem is not seeing through the comments and light heartedness and trying to make a issue out of nothing.

To quote Steve Martin from the movie my Blue Heaven, "Of course you have a sense of humor. Everyone thinks they do, even people who don't."

Lighten up dood, its a beautiful day, the birds are singing, the sun is shining, my just finished the laundry and now she's cooking and Im watching football and typing this.......
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 03:32 AM by jobsworth »
Loving the Calif sun....

Online Kev

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2015, 03:26 AM »
Recently been dealing with a master data management issue ... the data element in question is gender. It seems that it's no longer acceptable to define gender as male or female, but there's nothing specific for the ambiguous genders [blink]

ISO 5218 offers ...

0 = not known,
1 = male,
2 = female,
9 = not applicable.

I'm curious about 3 to 8 [huh]

Offline Alex

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2015, 03:38 AM »
I'm curious about 3 to 8 [huh]

That's the "everybody is beautiful and special in their own way" category.

Offline Holmz

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2015, 05:06 AM »
I'm curious about 3 to 8 [huh]

That's the "everybody is beautiful and special in their own way" category.

That is onl if it is 3 AM to 8 AM.
After you wake up sometimes they are not so special.
Especially if one has thai'ed one on.

Offline Untidy Shop

  • Posts: 2532
Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2015, 05:26 AM »
does it matter? yes it is or not its not. nothing changes lol

Wether it is or isn't; as an issue, any implied sexism does matter -
FOG is supported by a Multinational company with gender equity policies and consequently the FOG should be welcoming and inclusive to both genders.



@#Tee

what matters to me is your lack of a sense of humour. All my post which you keep referring to are all in humour.

I think your the one with a problem.

That problem is not seeing through the comments and light heartedness and trying to make a issue out of nothing.

To quote Steve Martin from the movie my Blue Heaven, "Of course you have a sense of humor. Everyone thinks they do, even people who don't."

Lighten up dood, its a beautiful day, the birds are singing, the sun is shining, my just finished the laundry and now she's cooking and Im watching football and typing this.......

Ah Jobsworth.

First of all I get your humour; you often play with all the politics of this issue and I definitely appreciate that. And yes I have  responded to you in the past in this regard. I even appreciated your last sentence - sharing the household workload, and stated with humour.  [smile]

But please go back to the references that started this thread and the obviously direct posts (now removed by Shane in his past role with Festool USA) towards a respected Nth American Woodworker and Journalist. They did not reflect your sence of humour. Then ask yourself how often women in proportion to men post on the FOG? Even after allowing for the ratio of women to men in woodworking based trades and industries.

As to Festool as a company regarding this issue? Gender inclusiveness is most certainly in their policies given that one of their most senior executives is female.

Now Jobsworth, perhaps we can take a big breath, and move on to other topics. How is your Domino going after several years of use?

@jobsworth

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« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 05:50 AM by Untidy Shop »
If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.”
― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Offline Wuffles

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2015, 05:51 AM »
Recently been dealing with a master data management issue ... the data element in question is gender. It seems that it's no longer acceptable to define gender as male or female, but there's nothing specific for the ambiguous genders [blink]

ISO 5218 offers ...

0 = not known,
1 = male,
2 = female,
9 = not applicable.

I'm curious about 3 to 8 [huh]

How curious?

I'm curious about 3 to 8 [huh]

That's the "everybody is beautiful and special in their own way" category.

I nominate 3 as "Good sense of humour".
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline Holmz

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2015, 06:05 AM »
It is odd that women generally are crafty, but under represented in WWork.
Card making and sewing tends to fall into traditional roles.
The one place were there is more equality is in glass work.

It is an odd treatise on our society.
Meanwhile; down the road from Charlie Hebdo HQ, it was heck on Earth.

Offline CrazyLarry

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2015, 06:23 AM »
It is odd that women generally are crafty, but under represented in WWork.
Card making and sewing tends to fall into traditional roles.
The one place were there is more equality is in glass work.

It is an odd treatise on our society.
Meanwhile; down the road from Charlie Hebdo HQ, it was heck on Earth.

Not really there's stuff some people enjoy / others don't, stuff some people are good at others aren't.

*most* men are carp at some things, *most* women are carp at others, there are always exceptions but outliers are just that they are no guide to what is or should be...

What makes me laugh (or cry) is the square pegs obsessed with cramming themselves into round holes, so long as they don't try and make me follow them who cares?

That's the only problem with this PC drivel it ignores what is!


Offline Holmz

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #22 on: November 14, 2015, 06:33 AM »
I only two women personally who did any word working.

I think we are saying the same thing.
Namely it is not that FOG is sexist (evidenced because there are few women)... There are just few women doing it.

Offline CrazyLarry

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2015, 06:49 AM »
I only two women personally who did any word working.

I think we are saying the same thing.
Namely it is not that FOG is sexist (evidenced because there are few women)... There are just few women doing it.

Yes! Not wanting to do something and being no good at it often go together!

Cue mental image of my dad and a lawn mower!!!

Offline Wuffles

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2015, 07:00 AM »
Cue mental image of my dad and a lawn mower!!!

TMI
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.

Offline CrazyLarry

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #25 on: November 14, 2015, 07:23 AM »
Cue mental image of my dad and a lawn mower!!!

TMI

He's much better (safer) since he got one with a motor and wheels.
Additional Jarvising time I guess.

Giving him a device that flies whilst tethered to the mains was never a good idea :)

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #26 on: November 14, 2015, 10:32 AM »
I buy Festool, my wife prefers to shop for clothing and purses.  She likes things I build for the house, I don't mind her dressing up.  My wife is good at cooking, I'm responsible for plunger activities.  My wife does the laundry, I shovel the driveway and take care of the yard.

Now tell me, am I a man or a woman?  If you automatically assumed, your sexist.

People rarely get offended by what they've said or written, mostly by what they've heard or said.  I think people gotta relax and enjoy the intended content.

Offline CrazyLarry

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #27 on: November 14, 2015, 10:39 AM »
I buy Festool, my wife prefers to shop for clothing and purses.  She likes things I build for the house, I don't mind her dressing up.  My wife is good at cooking, I'm responsible for plunger activities.  My wife does the laundry, I shovel the driveway and take care of the yard.

Now tell me, am I a man or a woman?  If you automatically assumed, your sexist.

People rarely get offended by what they've said or written, mostly by what they've heard or said.  I think people gotta relax and enjoy the intended content.

you're!!!

Grammar is a real crime, sexism isn't, neither is causing offence if you ask me, after all if you aren't offending someone you can't be saying (thinking) anything but meaningless PC tripe :) I like being offended or annoyed it usually leads to something interesting whether that's something new or just a review...

Anyway there's no assumption needed wife = female ... no debate.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 11:10 AM by CrazyLarry »

Online Kev

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #28 on: November 14, 2015, 10:57 AM »
Anyway there's no assumption needed wife = female ... no debate.

I've known  male couples where one refers to the other as "the wife" .. careful !!

Offline CrazyLarry

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #29 on: November 14, 2015, 11:09 AM »
Anyway there's no assumption needed wife = female ... no debate.

I've known  male couples where one refers to the other as "the wife" .. careful !!

Sure they can, and that's great for them, but I reserve the right to continue to use the word in it's original, conventional and correct use. I could call an ice cream an apple but I can't complain if when I ask for two apples I don't get ice creams!!!

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #30 on: November 14, 2015, 11:22 AM »
I dunno Larry, If I had a beer and a bier, Id drink them both....
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline CrazyLarry

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #31 on: November 14, 2015, 11:25 AM »
Well yes if I asked for anything and got a beer I'm not complaining :)

Offline Scorpion

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #32 on: November 14, 2015, 04:10 PM »

I buy Festool, my wife prefers to shop for clothing and purses.  She likes things I build for the house, I don't mind her dressing up.  My wife is good at cooking, I'm responsible for plunger activities.  My wife does the laundry, I shovel the driveway and take care of the yard.

Now tell me, am I a man or a woman?  If you automatically assumed, your sexist.

People rarely get offended by what they've said or written, mostly by what they've heard or said.  I think people gotta relax and enjoy the intended content.

you're!!!

Grammar is a real crime, sexism isn't, neither is causing offence if you ask me, after all if you aren't offending someone you can't be saying (thinking) anything but meaningless PC tripe :) I like being offended or annoyed it usually leads to something interesting whether that's something new or just a review...

Anyway there's no assumption needed wife = female ... no debate.

LOL...grammor ain't no nothin'.

Auto-complete on a cell phone is the goodness.  Technology only has us typing the first few letters of a word anymore.  You're, your...whatever.  Our brains can handle much more preprocessing than that moment required...well some of you'res can.

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #33 on: November 14, 2015, 07:01 PM »
Probably the most sexist thing on FOG is this thread.

Lets not start debating "wife" , etc.

Seth

Offline Wuffles

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Re: Is the FOG Sexist? Yes, No, Maybe?
« Reply #34 on: November 15, 2015, 04:40 AM »
I buy Festool, my wife prefers to shop for clothing and purses.  She likes things I build for the house, I don't mind her dressing up.  My wife is good at cooking, I'm responsible for plunger activities.  My wife does the laundry, I shovel the driveway and take care of the yard.

Now tell me, am I a man or a woman?  If you automatically assumed, your sexist.

People rarely get offended by what they've said or written, mostly by what they've heard or said.  I think people gotta relax and enjoy the intended content.

you're!!!

Grammar is a real crime, sexism isn't, neither is causing offence if you ask me, after all if you aren't offending someone you can't be saying (thinking) anything but meaningless PC tripe :) I like being offended or annoyed it usually leads to something interesting whether that's something new or just a review...

Anyway there's no assumption needed wife = female ... no debate.

Erm, the way that is written, Scorpion could be a lady as well as her wife.
Tool list updated to reflect knowledge :: hammer, screwdriver, one pozi bit, and another bigger hammer.