Author Topic: using the forum as leverage against its own members  (Read 6966 times)

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Offline Festoolfootstool

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using the forum as leverage against its own members
« on: June 23, 2010, 04:18 AM »
Hi there is a hot thread on the fog at the moment I will not use the names of the parties involved and if you want to reply no names please as I want to discuss the principles, and what I perceive is wrong with the thread and NOT the people involved.



A item was purchased off a retailer that advertised on this site and who happens to be a member.
the purchase was not off this site
the title of the thread was re:caution ordering from a FOG member I also think that it should not have been posted in member connections, but the dealer/sales area that, combined with  threats of informing the state attorney general and the use of fraud and deceptive business practice.Make the thread a tool to excerpt leverage on the individual and a personal attack.and brings the Fog into disrepute.

I feel the post should have been taken down and the poster allowed to re-post using the name of the company and his views on his purchase, and the best time to inform or warn other people is when the matter has been concluded.

Perhaps its time to have a rethink regarding access to the dealer/sales area and a general tightening of the rules regarding disputes between members


« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 04:33 AM by Festoolfootstool »
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline justinmcf

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2010, 04:50 AM »
with regards to the thread in question.

did you happen to read shane holland's response?

justin.

Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2010, 04:58 AM »
Justin yes I did
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline jmbfestool

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2010, 06:39 AM »
I think your getting to bothered about this and I think you should just wait till the Seller reply s with the response you are properly hopping for and properly we all are.  I think now the thread you are on about should just lay dormant till the mater is resolved. Then we can discuss the principles about all this.

You don't know the seller only from this forum so I don't understand how you can stick up for him so much.

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Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2010, 07:05 AM »
I think your getting to bothered about this and I think you should just wait till the Seller reply s with the response you are properly hopping for and properly we all are.  I think now the thread you are on about should just lay dormant till the mater is resolved. Then we can discuss the principles about all this.

You don't know the seller only from this forum so I don't understand how you can stick up for him so much.



Hi JMB

I am not sticking up for the seller at all I want to make that very clear.

it is the use of the forum  the title/ content of the post, that I am at issue with.and would like to discuss.which is why I have refrained from posting on the thread in question.


cheers

If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Brice Burrell

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2010, 08:37 AM »
As I posted on the thread you are referring to, the retailer in question is taking advantage of his good reputation as a member on this site to promote his products here. If he isn't living up to that reputation or conducting a fair and honest business (that he promotes here) the membership has a right to know. As a general rule I agree with you that disputes should be handled privately. The buyer in this case seems to have felt that avenue was exhausted or possibly that matter was not going to be resolved by the retailer. In other words, this is sort of a special case.

I also agree that it might have been better to put this thread in the sales section. There will always be cases that falls into a gray area of the rules, this one is a good example of that. Are new rules needed, at this point, I don't think so. I think some people object to these kinds of discussion because they are unsightly. I don't think that is a good enough reason to not discuss disputes/experiences with FOG related retailers. [2cents]       
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Offline Festoolfootstool

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2010, 09:07 AM »
As I posted on the thread you are referring to, the retailer in question is taking advantage of his good reputation as a member on this site to promote his products here. If he isn't living up to that reputation or conducting a fair and honest business (that he promotes here) the membership has a right to know. As a general rule I agree with you that disputes should be handled privately. The buyer in this case seems to have felt that avenue was exhausted or possibly that matter was not going to be resolved by the retailer. In other words, this is sort of a special case.

I also agree that it might have been better to put this thread in the sales section. There will always be cases that falls into a gray area of the rules, this one is a good example of that. Are new rules needed, at this point, I don't think so. I think some people object to these kinds of discussion because they are unsightly. I don't think that is a good enough reason to not discuss disputes/experiences with FOG related retailers. [2cents]       

Hello Brice I agree with what you say, members should be made aware of any potential issues with any vendor that uses this site.and What makes this particular case difficult is the vendor is a sole trader. and the line between being a member and retailing from the same site is very thin and grey.
This may be a good time for the retailer to stop and re access his position.

I would have had no issues if the thread had a more suitable title and was directed at the company rather than the individual Was posted in the dealer/sales area and was posted only to warn others of potential issues rather than the site used to try to force a resolution.

thanks for your input



 
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Festool USA

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2010, 09:30 AM »
Our goal is to allow the forum to be run by and for the members.  That's why we have member-moderators.  There have been no private complaints voiced to me and as far as I know none to the moderators.  Therefore, I would say that the majority of the membership does not see an issue with the thread.  So, the thread will stay and we do not believe there is need for any additional rules.

I was once self-employed and in that case you and your company are one in the same.  This has nothing to do with a personal attack, it is a member posting comments about his purchasing experience with a retailer.  There have been posts on here complaining about (or praising) Festool dealers who are sole proprietors and it's the same scenario.  The person is the business.  It's not a personal attack, it was simply the OP's warning to anyone considering to do business with a seller of goods.

I would agree that the thread would be better placed in the Sales area and I will move it there.

If any member thinks otherwise, I encourage you to contact myself and/or a moderator privately.

Offline woodguy7

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2010, 03:58 PM »
I agree, this is a bit of an ugly thread but it is one that needs to be aired.  Like has been previously said, the seller openly promoted his product &  touted for business & in doing so leaves himself open to criticism as well as compliments.  After all, you have to take the bad with the good.

Woodguy.

Footstool, i just noticed the text on your signature strip, lock stock is one of my favorite movies, closely followed by snatch  [big grin]
If its made of wood, i can make it smaller.
Shirt size medium
p.s- ive started reading these too

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2010, 04:11 PM »

Woodguy.

Footstool, i just noticed the text on your signature strip, lock stock is one of my favorite movies, closely followed by snatch  [big grin]

I will refrain from the obvious reply [big grin]
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Neill

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2010, 04:43 PM »
Open note to Shane...

Since the posting to the original thread has been closed to further comment, why not do the same here?

This appears to just be a way for other posters to circumvent the consensus that has apparently been reached.

Neill
Kapex, Domino, MFT/3, Rotex 150 FEQ, CT 22E, TS 55, RS2E Orbital Sander, C12 Drill, 1400 Router, Rotex 90 DX, Rotex 125 FEQ, LS 130 EQ Linear, Parallel Guide Set, Deltex 93 E, Trion 300 Barrell Grip, ETS 150/3 EQ, ES125 EQ, Guide Rail Accessory Kit, Sanding Block, various rails, systainers, sortainers, vacuum hoses and accessories for various tools.

Offline Festoolfootstool

  • Posts: 2076
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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #11 on: June 23, 2010, 05:07 PM »
Open note to Shane...

Since the posting to the original thread has been closed to further comment, why not do the same here?

This appears to just be a way for other posters to circumvent the consensus that has apparently been reached.

Neill

Neill

when I emailed Shane earlier today he had no issues with this thread

cheers
If the milk turns out to be sour, I ain't the kind of **** to drink it.......

Why do Festool accessories only have a two month guarantee here in the UK ?

Offline Holzhacker

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2010, 06:05 PM »
I really am sorry that A post was misinterpreted and is being seen as a personal attack by some. I agree the subject line should have been better worded and attempted to change that. It is not and was never intended to be. Obviously different people do different things. Around here it is very normal for contractors to warn each other about clients, subcontractors or GC's. I've called other contractors and they have called me, Who is this client, does he pay on time?; Is this Sub as good as he says or is he full of ...?; Nobody wants to end up in a crappy deal. I've told plenty of clients that if they want to use this particular HVAC guy I know he'll do a great job. Use him in any vacant you want, don't use him in an occupied unit, his guys are pigs. I give him a fair amount of work and he knows what I tell clients. I appreciate it when someone forewarns me about potential issues when dealing with someone. It saves a lot of time and aggravation. The former I don't have enough of, the latter I want as little as possible of.
As far as leverage, that's just nonsense. If I were the jag-off some of you like to think, I would be divulging other things that have nothing to do with me. Give it a rest.
Markus
"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2010, 06:43 PM »
I am done referring people out. I had the best subs for years, but inevitably the person I hooked up with a sub was not happy for whatever reason. Either the sub did not come through this one and only time or the "friend"was nuts. Like borrowing out tools I just do not do it anymore. I don't even recommended Festools outside of this forum as I had a friend purchase some on my recommendation and he was unhappy saying his Rigid sander did the job of an ETS 150 and his Rigid vac was as good as a CT, etc.  ??? I just gave up.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2010, 06:45 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Wood_Junkie

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Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2010, 06:53 PM »
"Can't we all just get along?"

Group hug!

Therapy campfire song!

[oops]


[dead horse]



[bite tongue]



[scratch chin]



[doh]


[2cents]

"Stop the madness!"

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Offline Toolfest

  • Posts: 61
Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2010, 06:59 PM »
I agree with the comments Shane and Brice have made in both threads. Also, I think the whole matter is being handled well by the moderators and agree that no changes should be made to forum rules.

As far as this thread goes, I think it's completely unnecessary. The issues presented have already been addressed in the main thread and the OP is repeating more of the same and I would not object to locking this thread.

Whether someone is a member, dealer, related retailer, should not influence whether someone can post comments about their experiences. Holzhacker has been patient throughout the process and did not make personal attacks yet he is being attacked for trying to prevent a fellow member from possibly going through the same frustration. When Eiji first posted his planes they were met with a very favorable reaction, and deservedly so, they are beautiful. The buying process and timely delivery is something altogether different and Holzhacker is doing members a good service by informing us of a potential issue. He is not telling anyone to not order from Eiji under any circumstance in an effort to ruin his business and life. Rather, he is identifying a potential problem that may exist regarding timely delivery of the plane so that a potential buyer could work that out with Eiji and avoid any confussion.    

The FOG is an open forum that welcomes input on a wide variety of topics and I think this openness should continue even if the topic is an unpleasant one.

Whether a thread should be titled this or that and posted here or there are judgment calls and any concerns regarding them can be resolved with a pm to a moderator instead of creating a fuss, a new thread, and making unfounded accusations that a thread was created to exert influence towards the goal of resolving a dispute.

The forum is not being used as leverage against its own members. Forum members are solely responsible for their actions and the consequences that follow.  
  
I am happy to hear Eiji is well, I was worried since we have not heard from him.


Offline jmbfestool

  • Posts: 6622
Re: using the forum as leverage against its own members
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2010, 07:21 PM »
I am done referring people out. I had the best subs for years, but inevitably the person I hooked up with a sub was not happy for whatever reason. Either the sub did not come through this one and only time or the "friend"was nuts. Like borrowing out tools I just do not do it anymore. I don't even recommended Festools outside of this forum as I had a friend purchase some on my recommendation and he was unhappy saying his Rigid sander did the job of an ETS 150 and his Rigid vac was as good as a CT, etc.  ??? I just gave up.


Same in the work shop I use to work in. I must agree that makita they used was nice little sander but it was like a finishing sander. The then got the Rotex which is a like a heavy duty sander so for quick removal of material and they was like its rubbish cus it wasnt as gentle. Also they got a Festo Sander(OLD FESTOOL) which they said was rubbish.  Thing is I just said I love all festool Tools I OWN I don't own any sanders so I cant comment but they where moaning at me because I said festool is to Dogs Willy!
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