Matthew,

I very muich like the idea of allowing a participant to post and then modify his/her project and photos and report and submit the "completed" effort as an entry into the tool contest.  That hopefully addresses the concern that the contest may impede disclosure of tool use ideas and tips.

Dave R.

Hi,

       O.K.   I just reread the entire thread.   The more I read the more I think that this seemingly simple concept for fun will not turn out to be so simple. One way or another.   I was going to post replies and thoughts on many points  made about this. But decided there are just too many to deal with.  It may seem that this whole deal is being blown way out of proportion. Maybe so.     But it is quite clear that many folks here have  been able to easily identify the problems.   They have also identified the good points.  That indicates to me that the fun , simple notion is just covering the surface of a whole pile of saw dust. I think that the basic idea is great. But if kept straight forward and simple , the result may not be so much a competition as a sort of random vote.
 
        Timmy Cs "junkie" contest, seemed to work pretty well though. But I was surprised at how few people voted in that. 

       I find myself in agreement with just about all of points / comments regardless of the positive or negative  Maybe I am nuts on this time will tell.


Seth

Further to Dan/Ned's ideas on a 'rotating category' type system, how about a system of retrospective prizes?

This, I imagine, would work in a similar way to an annual award ceremony, but with one category being awarded each month.

Let's say you had 6 categories, for example; Best home building/renovation project, Best furniture project, Best jig, Best adult/child project, Best design project, and Best finishing technique.

In month one, you ask members to nominate the best home building/renovating projects from the last 6 months, and then vote a winner.

In month two, you do the same for furniture projects for the last 6 months, and so on and so on.

In month seven, you go back to the same as month one.

Note: there doesn't NEED to be 6 categories, it would work with any number (though 6 or 12 would be logical). If you had 12, then obviously you'd ask for nominations from the past 12 months, and if 8, then 8 months.

Doing it this way, everyone can post projects as they do now with no need to change the way they're posted, and no need to 'hold back' from posting. There's no time issues involved, so any project posted at any time will always be eligible for the relevant category once (and once only) eventually.

So to start, on 1st May you would ask for nominations for 'best home building/renovating project' posted within the last 6 months. You could have 2 weeks to gather nominations, after which you have 2 weeks for judging. Then the winner can be announced on 1st June, along with asking for nominations for the second category.

I think this would work well, and be fairly easy to administer. The hardest part would be choosing the categories!!!

Matthew count me in as for donating the prize for the Kids Contest....

I would offer a ETS 125 with 50ish bucks of sandpaper as first prize award, and and then incremental Gift Certs for the second and third place prizes.

PS.  I still think that we / judges should put forward 3-5 plans to choose from.  This will take away from the creative side of things (I know, I know) but it will set an equal playing field.

Timmy

Hi,

I e mailed Matthew my opinion and its only that.

Ever seen a decision made by committee?

Ever seen a Harmonious committee?

Ever seen politics enter a committees decision making process?

Only two ways to go here.

Elect Pico the Festool dog sole Judge or

Let Matthew be the sole judge, jury and executioner.

I see no reason that he would not be able to listen to suggestions

on democratic principle. But still.

This would stifle controversy and anyones hurt feelings.

Per

  Well, Tom, I understand what you are saying, I'd like to see the projects be judged by the best thread the member puts together, not necessarily the best or highest quality project. An example, is Eiji's entry, his work is outstanding! However, its not that exciting of a thread. No pictures of the building process, not much of a description of the build. Members haven't learned much from his thread.

  I think if we look at the overall quality not just the finished project it would help level the playing field for all members.

Excellent points, Brice!  The idea here is to have a contest where people really push themselves -- not just in what they build but how they share what they build.  It all should be factored in.

OK, thinking about what Per said, maybe I should judge the contests myself?  I don't mind doing that, but I'd feel better if I had at least two experienced woodworkers weiging in as well.  Anyone want to be a friendly judge?

Matthew

Matthew, while I still don't favor the idea of a drawing, I'm beginning to better understand the position of those in that camp. It seems to me that whoever the judge(s) is/are they may often find themselves in an uncomfortable position. And that could especially apply to you.


John

It seems that so far we have three basic ideas:

A raffle or random drawing from everyone who submits a project that month
A vote from all the members for the best project
One or more judges who decide on the best project

How about a mixture of these? For example, members could vote for the best three projects, and then a random drawing could be made to select the winner. Or some judges could select the best five, and then leave it up to the members to cast the final vote.

One of my worries about having a total random drawing is that the winning project might not be much good. Having a random drawing to short-list the candidates, and then putting it to the members or some judges for a vote, would lessen the possibility of this happening.

Forrest

I totally agree Tom.
I am in the same boat as you for tool buying right now.

John, that is truly thoughtful and I am sure that the caring part you are showing by leaving a little spot for her bike will build you many browny points.  If this all works for you please let me and the rest of the board know about it as I can only think that your wife must be a mail-order non English speaking woman to actually tolerate this.  Fred

Good idea, Matthew, I knew you would come up with something that everyone can live with (if people don't like this idea, thay aren't going to like anything we come up with).

 One still pending point to solve is to find a way for international members to participate,
 else they may refrain themselves to submit until rules are changed.

 for instance, they can be nominated best project of the month, and they are allowed
 to choose what to do with the prize (auction/money to the FOG, auction/money into
 the winner pockets, donate to a school, donate to a US member,  forward to next month winner,
etc ... lots of possibilities)

This until Festool rest of the world is convinced to participate ... 

I agree that international participation is great, and this forum has terrific members from all over the world.  I would love nothing more than to have international Festool branches getting involved in this forum and supporting members from their region.

Part of my motivation for the International Representation poll is to have some numbers to support my call for more Festool branches to become active in the forum.  To date, only about 8% of our members have voted in the poll.

I've contacted Festool branches around the world asking them to get involved in the forum, but to date only Festool USA has answered my calls.  If anyone has ideas about how to get other Festool branches to participate, I'm all for it!

Matthew

I just  saw an entry by elji, but don't the entries have to show the projects being made, not just the final pics? Don't the projects have to be made by one person and not a crew. I am confused. I know I have not been in this thread awhile, but just seeing the final project and not progress pics leaves the door wide open for a lot of negative things.

Heck I can submit final pics of over 100 completed projects. I am not going to harp on fairness, but anyone really want to go against final pics in a professional portfolio?

Don't contest entry's have to show the actual making of the project?

Straighten me out, I may have missed something.   If progress pics and getting from point A to B is not mandatory, I fail to see the point of this contest at all.

Nickao