The 2 cents from a non-participating foreign member ..

It would also be sad if the same winner wins ever and ever and ever ....
That sounds a bit greedy to me, sorry to say.

There is a wide population of forum members, pros,  working hobbyists,
retired hobbyists, etc .. The rules (and the jury) should make sure they all
have equal chances to win, and avoid the same winner to win too often

And another non-participating foreign member agrees!

I think that a working pro with a fully-equipped workshop, and whose time and materials are paid for by a customer, has an unfair advantage over hobbyists who have to squeeze in projects at weekends, who have to work out of the spare bedroom, and who may not be able to afford high-quality and expensive materials.

I'm not sure how to make the playing field more level, but perhaps two separate categories - pro and amateur - might be a possible solution.

I am not suggesting that we change the rules for the May competition, but I think that we should re-appraise things before the beginning of June.

Forrest

  Thank you Forrest,

darn straight we do and on top of that, generally my customers buy my tools.

Just one more little Pet Peeve. I build these bars with 75% festool.

Do you think it would be fair if I entered one now?

I thought not.

Per

How about a compromise?

It seems we are split between those who want a drawing and those who want more member projects.  So, what if we have a drawing each month from those who posted qualifying projects?  By qualifying, I mean those projects that would be considered now (photos, how Festools were used, etc - whatever standards the judges are using now).

That way we would have more projects posted and avoid the whole pro vs. amateur fairness debates.  And by having a drawing each month, we would avoid carrying over the non-winning projects month after month.

What do you guys think?  Of course it's ultimately up to Matthew. 

Oh, and Per, go for it!  The contest is for all members and I know I would like to see more of your work.

Tom.

Just to toss a whole 'nother squid into the bucket: I just got my Talmeters, and I nominate Scott W. for a prize of some sort!

I have an idea. On one month you could let the members from other countries do the voting. This way they can at least have an important part in this if they can't win prizes. Just a thought.

You may have been hurt by my posts, I'm sorry for that.
It's very clear you worked extremely hard at the project you described as well as at the posting.
No doubt in my mind.

That said, I will speak for myself and leave it to Forrest do his own:
I don't feel entitled to be eligible, by the published rules & because I'm too much of a newbie at woodworking.

Hey Eiji,  you hurt my feelings.  Nah, just kidding.    I certainly don't think my entry should win over one that is better.

I think Forrest said it best.  It's not that you don't deserve to win, it's that some feel that having you (and other pros) having their materials (and tools) paid for by the customers gives you guys an advantage over many in the group.  That's why I said maybe have a drawing from those who post projects and others have wanted to have different categories for entries.

Would you have been able (or choose) to build your project (or Per his bar, for example) if you had to pay for it yourself?

I see your point that the best should win and I hope you can see my side as well.

Tom.

Matthew. just to let you know that I very much agree with the way that you are running this and I am happy that you are resisting preasure to choose the winner by a draw.

Since I am a judge this month I want to weigh in here. Like most every other judge I have put Eiji's doors at the top of the list. The fact that he is a pro or the project shows superb craftsmanship is quite irrelevant to my decision. It is the outstanding documentation of the project that I find so compelling. He used many different Festools, and did so creatively. He made me feel that I could go down to my workshop, and using his thread as a guide, build those doors. He took the mystery out of them and showed how thoughtful application of good tools and technique could work for any of us.

Per has suggested about posting one of his bar projects. I am blown away by the craftsmanship he has put into them. I kid him all the time about taking credit for his Dad's work and he takes it all in stride. The Swensons are fine craftsmen, but for Per to outdo Eiji's offering now he would need to re-create many shots and steps that show how many of us could do some of those things. That may now be impossible, especially bacause Per is concentrating on making a living.

As far as pros having an advantage, I don't agree. They work to deadlines, they need to finish projects to eat. Taking the time to document the way Eiji did is very time consuming and that time comes right off the bottom line. As judges, we need to look for the creative uses of Festool products and success in conveying technique, and not worry about the commercial or non-commercial character of the project or craftsman. As an example, Frank's 'log cabin' project ranked very high with me as well. It was very creative and well documented, and also a project that I feel I could do using his thread as a guide. His personal qualifications? He's a loving Grandfather who used decades old fence boards. Go figure. As far as backgrounds go he and Eiji could hardly be more different. 

I will agree with you on the doors being top notch, but for  hobbiest we also don't have much time either. We don't get to take 40 hour work weeks to build what we build. We have to squeeze time between dinner and bed time w/o causing family problems. Many of us don't have a paycheck at the end either.  If anything, a professional should document his or her work, it's the best way to market yourself. I run 2 businesses, help take care of my father and some how still make time to build stuff with no pay check at the other end. I do it mostly for the passion and the challenge. IMHO it's much harder for a hobbiest to document his work because we already work our 40+ hours and still, some how make more time to do what we do. If I had 40+ hours to do my work, I'd document everything and be able to turn out much grander projects. Think about it, if it took me 6 months to build the big humidor (which I gave away at the end) how much extra time do you think I had to document it. If I could work 40 hours a week on a project like that, I'd be done in 3 or 4 weeks. My hobby turns my work week into a 7 day a week job (I'm glad I don't see my wood working as a job) But if I did, my work week would be considered a 70 hr work week. I will tell you though, I've been working on a new project for a while now and almost every step has required my Festools and I'm documenting everything. I don't expect to win this month, but you can bet, I'll keep trying. Good luck to all my talented friends. If I am that lucky, I'd be honored. I wouldn't mind being a judge some time if you'll have me too. Here's some pictures of what I do to make money. How do you like this combo, high end car audio and dune buggies Maby I should use my Festools to build some of these. One more thing, these 2 businesses were once my hobbies too. And I'll be happy to give FOG discounts.

Please don't read this as my being upset, I'm not at all, I'm just pointing out another opinion.

Everyone,
As we progress towards the end of the month, and the conclusion of the first tool contest, I just wanted to report that one of the judges has left the forum.
I found out this morning that Nick has chosen to delete his FOG account.  So that means we have four judges for the contest.
Matthew

I'm sorry to hear that. He was a good contributor.
No matter how this contest is judged, it does show how passionate we all can be about our tools. I've spent huge amounts of money on tools and tool boxes and never been this excited about the quality and features of any other tool company. I hope I win someday but I hope you can continue this great opportunity w/o contraversy. It does seem to me that you do have a plan that will allow a wide varity of people to win. Everyone just needs to be patient, have fun and enjoy the anticipation.

im also sorry to hear nick has decided to pull out

i hope its only temporary

Hi guys, I'mlooking at the ocean in Kona wondering who won. Good luck everyone.