It seems like it's difficult to get broad participation in our contests here on the forum. Can someone shed some light on why members choose not to participate.  I guess I'm looking for some constructive criticism of our contests.  Any feedback would be appreciated so that we can improve participation.

Thanks,
Shane

Thanks, JRB.  No need to apologize, I want feedback even if it's blunt. Regarding the MFK contest, I realize that was limited in scope.  I was looking for feedbck on contests as a whole rather than just the most recent one.  I appreciate your comments.

Hi Shane,

Actually, I would have loved to participate in the last few contests, I think you're doing a fine job of making them worthwile.

To be more specfic:
I would have participated in the "review" contest/draw, but the text I drew up about the DD DC Drywall chuck really didn't add anything to the allready great reviews on the site, so I chose not to enter.
I have been a member for some time now, so I couldn't compete in the "new member" draw.
Although I'd really like to own an MFK700, I don't - so I wasn't eligible for that one, either.

Actually, I think your efforts have yielded great results, the "review contest" in particular has drawn some great reviews, I don't think you could have hoped for better.

Just keep up the good work, OK?


Regards,

Job

Thanks, Guy.  I'm certainly open to more ideas for future contests.  I will certainly consider your recommendation.

Job, thanks for the kind words.

I've been active here only for a little while (though I think I signed up 2 years ago  )  The only contests in that time were the recent MFK-700 contest and the "do a review" contest.

I liked the idea of the do-a-review contest, although I felt a little silly writing a review for something someone else already wrote up.  There's only so many times people can read that the OF1400 has a nice edge guide and not fall dead bored.  That said, I planned on reviewing it by showing how it worked as a system during a project (OF1400, guide rail, some MFK-700 parts, other goodies), but that didn't seem to fit the scope of the contest.  So it seemed like I'd waste a long time writing it up.  I did blog about the project though, elsewhere, so you got that coverage 

For the MFK-700 contest, well, so far I'm underwealmed with the MFK-700 and trying to see which niche of my shop it works best in.  That said, my review would have been limited to flush trimming some banding 

I agree with the project based contests, I honestly dont have much time to sit and take a million pictures for a tool review, especially when there are so many reviews out there already. Project based contests for me please.

Only because I can't!   

 

Nuff said!

Ah, yes, but I have the prototype sitting on my desk which could conveniently be misplaced. 

But beware of that one tenths!  

Just in case anyone is wondering - this is all in fun.  Shane does have the FOGtainer prototype that is about to be sent out to a deserving member and he has been so helpful in making it extra special.

Shane is a great guy and a great friend!

Let the sparring continue!

Peter

I like the forum a lot, and you do great work Shane. Thank you very much for that.
 


I agree, it takes some courage to put oneself in the limelight of critique. I think FOG is one of the most friendly stages one can do this: the spirit is to help and to learn from each other. Maple/oak discussions, or molding1 vs. molding2 can be taken as critique easily. It is difficult to read those questions/remarks not as an attack, because it's the result of one's own creative process that has been presented. However, no matter how experienced someone is, the transition of a problem to a solution is a complete different process than the observation f a problem and the solution that someone found. Even a rookie could easily come up with a better, or at least another solution, just because he observes the end-result, and the only thing he would have to do is think of an alternative. It took me quite a while to learn this WRT my own trade, and accept suggestions/remarks/critisism regarding my work. Knowing the difference between creating and judging a solution made this alot easier.   


IMHO that's against the culture of the FOG: Sharing ideas, helping each other. That's why bother, to return something to the group in return for the help one might have gotten.


Reviewing a tool in public is not different from putting the results of a project in public. If one suffers from perfectionism, it is hard to write a review that is 'good enough'. Did I cover all pro's and cons, are my opinions fair?

Maybe a contest could take the approach of
- 'What was the most challenging task you completed using tool XYZ'?
For the less courageous writers (not everyone in the construction profession (or hobby) is a good writer) there could be an outline like:
- What were the considerations to choose this tool for the project
- If not with this tool, how would you have done the project (if at all)
- What were the shortcomings of the tool in the project
- What jigs/accessories did you create/use
- What did you learn, what would you pass on to the reader. (tips, tricks, do's and dont's)

An outline makes it easier to compare the entries, and to compile an 'ultimate review' with jigs, do's/don't and howto's.

Just my 2 cents.

Best, CJ'60
 

I didn't participate in any contest because I haven't seen any contests to participate in.

First off, most contests are closed to people outside America. Second, I don't have a MFK700.

Third, there was one contest open to people from everywhere, but even though it was called a 'contest' it was not a contest, it was a lottery. And I don't do lotteries.

At first I was very excited about that 'contest' and went on preparing material for reviews to the standards and in the fashion I was taught at college. I had quite a number of Festools by now and experience with them so thought I should have something useful to bring to the table. So I started to write drafts for a review of the Deltex, the DS400 and the Rotex 150. I have 4 of the small DS/DTS/RTS/ETS sanders and started to write an article facing them off. I really thought that would have been a useful article for this site since people often asks questions comparing them with each other. I started on a review of the CS70 and I knew this one was going to be huge. There's a lot of things to tell about that machine. Lots of parts that move from left to right, top to bottom and front to back. Lots of things to put on it and lots of things to take off. Lots of pics to be taken and lots of things to explain about those pics.

After working on my drafts for a while I started to realise what kind of work this would take. I most certainly felt obliged to follow the standard set here on this board by some profound members and not just sit down for 30 minutes and pull out a review. After putting a good 4 hours in each of my DX90, Ro150 and DS400 drafts I started to realise this would become very time consuming. And by that time other contributions started to show up and I slowly but surely started to realise where this 'contest' was going to. I realised that if I wanted to make a review of my CS70 and make it worth something I had to put in a good 16 to 20 hours of work. I realised that my review would be just as much worth as a review of a guide rail or a clamp that took 15 minutes to write. That really put me off. I started to realise that quantity was more important than quality. I realised I'd have more chance winning the Rotex by writing a couple of reviews about my BHS65 bit holder, the right angle chuck and a sheet of 80 grit Cristal paper instead of putting in 20 hours of work on my CS70 review.  

So that's when I decided not to participate.

PS. Some people have complained here about the prize staying in North America. That's not a North American thing, that's how lotteries work. Both winners of the review 'contest' put in most reviews so they had the biggest chance of being drawn in the lottery. That's not a North American thing, that's just maths. I just wished it were a real contest instead of a lottery.

You bet. Doing the reviews was a very hair raising experience. And I do not have much hair left. Especially since most, if not all of us in the review contest, waited until the last week to do the reviews.

I always thought they were fixed.  But seriously, since Fuller got my drill in the last contest I participated in, I've lost all my confidence and my wife left me.  Thanks Fuller!!!

Uh let's see......

A:  I am not really a worker of the wood (well the old lady may say otherwise).

B:  I don't really have the extra time.

C:  I really don't care that much about the contests.  Sorry, it is the truth.

D:  I find it more gratifying to just buy what ever is being given away, that way I win every time.

     Alex,

           Do you still intend to post your CS 70 review regardless of contests or lotteries?

              Nigel.

Most all the contests here are lottery, a few years ago there were a few contests where certain people voted, I didn't like that either. I like the open vote where everyone can vote, but it also has its problems.

If it is not a lottery someone that is inexperienced has no chance.

If it is based on one certain Festool people may not have that tool.

I don't participate because of the time, plus its totally unfair. I do this for a living and how can someone that does something else 60 hours a week hope to compete, with me in the shop 60 - 80 hours a week. Heck, I sleep next to my shop. I don't like where pros can win either that just makes no sense. Plus, I can not make up projects to to enter I have to make money with my shop time, period. And it is not right entering anything I am paid to do, I just will not change my mind on that and it shouldn't be allowed at all from anyone when the lottery format is not in play.

Reviews are another problem area, some can barely type, others can't download well or use a computer except to turn it on.

Mixing up the formats is probably best because of these things. So the lottery format should stay for some of the contests.

I've noticed some others saying similar. Ouch Shane, this is a harsh crowd to cater to.

Personally I think you have done great with your competitions. Maybe some more internationals but I understand that not every single one can be so I'm waiting for the next. As for the MFK700, I don't own one. I'd be happy to contribute if you would feel like sending me one. 

Chris R--
Having met you and Chris H at the router class in April, I can attest to Chris H holding a grudge!! I heard about the contest for 2 solid days. Trust me - he will be complaining for the rest of his life!!   
Apparently - that was no contest - it was a COMPETITION!!!
There needs to be a rematch.
Just poking fun at you two picking on each other.

Good intentions!    I'd say there have been numerous times I set out to do just that, however, time is precious.   The job consums a huge amount of time.  Sadly I do not work with wood as a profession.   The only real time I get to work with the passion is week-ends mostly.  I also have commitments with the family, so time to perform the task is limited.   Secondly, some of the contests were for reviews of tools I don't have (that list is getting smaller).   I guess the other reason is some folks have put a lot of effort and produced some real quality and I just figured I could not compete.  Now if it's a lottery type deal where if you submit you get a equal chance at the prize that would be different.   I have enjoyed all of the responses and found them valuable. 

  If I might make a suggestion,  have folks submit to you Shane, or a box or something, and at the end post them all with the winners announced however the method, judged or lottery type winner or winners.    JM2CW

I do particiapate in most of the contests here and I do enjoy them.  

I have even been a winner in a FOG contest (twice).

Being a relatively new to the FOG, I was surprised at the lack of participation in the contest. This fact and the value of the prize stimulated me in to participate in the review contest. Not something I normally do.  Plus I'am only a part time woodworking hobbyist and spar time is relative scarce. But once I started it was fun.

So thanks Shane for putting on the contests.  I would have participated in the MKF 700 router contest, but do not own one.

Looking forward to the next opportunity. Maybe I will be able to participate again.  

Frank,

You won because you cheated.  You entered! 

Neill

Actually, there MIGHT be a little quick contest before Andreas can come up with one.  Shane is a fast typer.

Peter

Couple of thoughts:

The idea I have in mind will not be aimed at one specific Festool item! That gives a fair chance to everyone.
It doesn't matter if you own your own company/shop or not!
It will not require a lot of time to participate!

It's very simple:

Tell us, the most unique, fun, outstanding situation (documented with a picture/video) you had while using any Festool! This could be, for example, working high up on a wind turbine (as shown in a recent video), or you taught you dog ( or cat--Rick, did you read this?!) how to run the TS55, or maybe you converted your rotex into a winch while touring Africa in your Land Cruiser....

Shane, can I also pick the prize? PLLEEEAAAASSSSEEEEEE 

How is that?

I've participated and actually won something!  Many of the projects done by the rest of the members take a lot of time and skill. As to the reviews, well, they too take a lot of time to do a good job. So the best contest for me is one in that a random draw can win.   

Ideas:
Award a well presented 'how-to' build with pix (many of which have already been posted).
How about short projects that take minimal time/skill but improves something around the home/office/etc.
Or some kind of short time limit on how long it takes to build something.

Mark

I enjoy the contests/lottery and entered the recent Tool Review contest.  I do not own the MFK700 or I would participate and since I am a member, I am not eligible for the magazine subscription.  As others have said, limiting the contest to a specific tool or geography will limit participation.  I had a lot of fun with my tool reviews and I will enter more contests in the future as I think that they are fun. 

Maybe a contest on how Festool has changed the way you work would be interesting...this would apply to anyone who owns one or more Festool tools...many users may only have one Festool tool to start.  However, they acquired that tool for a reason and it has more than likely changed how they work in general or on a specific project.  Since several folks own multiple tools, we might learn of new tools or unique ways of using our tools that would go beyond a mere review of a tool.  I think that the entry should be limited to one per member and maybe you have a drawing at the end to award prizes for first, second, third etc...  I like the suggestion of having multple prizes for the entrants.

I do think that Shane, Peter, Matthew and everyone that makes the FOG what it is is doing a great job and I certainly am very appreciative.

Scot

Harry it is way to late for that to work. Everyone has already seen the reviews that have been put out on this forum. No one has to actually read a particular thread to know how good the reviews can get. The intimidation is already there even now with no contest. Unless you are brand new to the forum it won't make anyone forget  that someone can and probably is  putting up something similar to reviews we have read in the past.

And for projects it is the same thing. I have seen eiji and many others work and I am not going to forget about  it.

Here is a contest that less than 60 people have entered.  Open till midnight tonight.  Right or wrong you will be entered into a drawing that will be the next FOG project.

Here is the link:  Look to the future!

Maybe you should have built a doghouse, Chris!      

I like to participate, but I don't always have time.  If the prize is something I already have, I leave it for those who really need it.  Now let's see, what I DON'T have: OF1400, OF2200, TS55, MFT3s, Kapex, RO150FEQ, Trion, CT36, Carvex, Planex, Vacuum clamp.....