Nigel
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Location: France Member Since: Apr 2009
Posts: 563
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« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2010, 01:43 AM » |
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I didn't participate in any contest because I haven't seen any contests to participate in.
First off, most contests are closed to people outside America. Second, I don't have a MFK700.
Third, there was one contest open to people from everywhere, but even though it was called a 'contest' it was not a contest, it was a lottery. And I don't do lotteries.
At first I was very excited about that 'contest' and went on preparing material for reviews to the standards and in the fashion I was taught at college. I had quite a number of Festools by now and experience with them so thought I should have something useful to bring to the table. So I started to write drafts for a review of the Deltex, the DS400 and the Rotex 150. I have 4 of the small DS/DTS/RTS/ETS sanders and started to write an article facing them off. I really thought that would have been a useful article for this site since people often asks questions comparing them with each other. I started on a review of the CS70 and I knew this one was going to be huge. There's a lot of things to tell about that machine. Lots of parts that move from left to right, top to bottom and front to back. Lots of things to put on it and lots of things to take off. Lots of pics to be taken and lots of things to explain about those pics.
After working on my drafts for a while I started to realise what kind of work this would take. I most certainly felt obliged to follow the standard set here on this board by some profound members and not just sit down for 30 minutes and pull out a review. After putting a good 4 hours in each of my DX90, Ro150 and DS400 drafts I started to realise this would become very time consuming. And by that time other contributions started to show up and I slowly but surely started to realise where this 'contest' was going to. I realised that if I wanted to make a review of my CS70 and make it worth something I had to put in a good 16 to 20 hours of work. I realised that my review would be just as much worth as a review of a guide rail or a clamp that took 15 minutes to write. That really put me off. I started to realise that quantity was more important than quality. I realised I'd have more chance winning the Rotex by writing a couple of reviews about my BHS65 bit holder, the right angle chuck and a sheet of 80 grit Cristal paper instead of putting in 20 hours of work on my CS70 review.
So that's when I decided not to participate.
PS. Some people have complained here about the prize staying in North America. That's not a North American thing, that's how lotteries work. Both winners of the review 'contest' put in most reviews so they had the biggest chance of being drawn in the lottery. That's not a North American thing, that's just maths. I just wished it were a real contest instead of a lottery.
Alex, Do you still intend to post your CS 70 review regardless of contests or lotteries? Nigel. |
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Der Flickschuster
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Location: Denali Highway, Alaska Member Since: Aug 2010
Posts: 70
just another day in Paradise...
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« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2010, 01:54 AM » |
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Cuz everyone else is smarter'n me....
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In the Heart of the Alaska Range - easternmost end of the Denali Highway. www.denalihwy.com |
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3864
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« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2010, 02:17 AM » |
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Most all the contests here are lottery, a few years ago there were a few contests where certain people voted, I didn't like that either. I like the open vote where everyone can vote, but it also has its problems.
If it is not a lottery someone that is inexperienced has no chance.
If it is based on one certain Festool people may not have that tool.
I don't participate because of the time, plus its totally unfair. I do this for a living and how can someone that does something else 60 hours a week hope to compete, with me in the shop 60 - 80 hours a week. Heck, I sleep next to my shop. I don't like where pros can win either that just makes no sense. Plus, I can not make up projects to to enter I have to make money with my shop time, period. And it is not right entering anything I am paid to do, I just will not change my mind on that and it shouldn't be allowed at all from anyone when the lottery format is not in play.
Reviews are another problem area, some can barely type, others can't download well or use a computer except to turn it on.
Mixing up the formats is probably best because of these things. So the lottery format should stay for some of the contests.
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« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 02:25 AM by nickao »
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The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.
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CJ'60
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Location: Netherlands Member Since: Feb 2010
Posts: 84
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« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2010, 03:47 AM » |
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Another reason may be, as David Baker stated, that the odds of winning are small, so why bother.
IMHO that's against the culture of the FOG: Sharing ideas, helping each other. That's why bother, to return something to the group in return for the help one might have gotten. True, but there are MANY ways to give back to the forum besides participating in contests. I try to do that by welcoming new members and by writing up projects that might inspire/help people. I'd be pretty hesitant to say someone's not helpful just because they elect to not participate. David, I didn't say you weren't helpful. If I instultedoffended you, if you understood it that way, my sincere apologies. I admire what you are creating with such few experience in woodworking. Without disqualifying your skills, I think your achievements so far are a fantastic testimony for the quality of Festool. 'Good tools are half the work', is a dutch proverb. I chose to quote Neill because he came up with the 'why bother'. That's what struck me. I see the contests Shane launches as a way to inspire people to share ideas on a particular subject. Some contests are more succesful than others. I'm a 'junior' member here, and don't know the contest history of the FOG. Maybe Shane is searching for the right format, at least that's how I 'read' the contest history I know of. That searching process takes some trial and error, there is a wide variety of interest, skill level, financial power (to acquire Festools), and it is not an easy task to create something that appeals to all (or just many) members. Just participating a contest because of the prize is probably not worth it for most of the participants, if they compare the value of the prize to the hourly rate of their profession multiplied by the time they have to invest. Alex's answer illustrates that perfectly well. |
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« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 04:38 AM by CJ'60 »
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AT-65 EB/1 Plus, CTL Mini, PS 300 EQ, OF1010 EBQ, Domino Set
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Chris Meggersee
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Location: Cape Town, South Africa Member Since: May 2010
Posts: 387
I'm addicted to Festools.
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« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2010, 04:02 AM » |
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Uh let's see...... A: I am not really a worker of the wood (well the old lady may say otherwise). B: I don't really have the extra time. C: I really don't care that much about the contests. Sorry, it is the truth. D: I find it more gratifying to just buy what ever is being given away, that way I win every time.  I've noticed some others saying similar. Ouch Shane, this is a harsh crowd to cater to. Personally I think you have done great with your competitions. Maybe some more internationals but I understand that not every single one can be so I'm waiting for the next. As for the MFK700, I don't own one. I'd be happy to contribute if you would feel like sending me one. |
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PS300EQ Jigsaw - OF1010EBQ Router - DF500 Domino - RO125FEQ Sander - C12CE Drill - TS55EBQ Saw - CT22E Dust extractor - DTS400 Sander
Wish List: Anything not listed above in the catalogue.
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Peter Halle
Global Moderator
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Location: Powhatan, Virginia USA Member Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 6398
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« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2010, 07:40 AM » |
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Mention has been made about the odds of winning. The FOG for Charity contest only had 6 entrants competing for 3 prizes. You can't get much better odds than that. And that idea was one of the most popular in the thread about contest ideas. That contest was structured so that it was not a contest of woodworking skill - rather it was a contest regarding thought, effort, and intent. The selection of a winner was made in blind judging - the judges had no idea who submitted which entry.
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« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 07:42 AM by Peter Halle »
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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PeterK
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Location: Wet muggy humid South Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 813
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« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2010, 09:25 AM » |
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Chris R-- Having met you and Chris H at the router class in April, I can attest to Chris H holding a grudge!! I heard about the contest for 2 solid days. Trust me - he will be complaining for the rest of his life!!  Apparently - that was no contest - it was a COMPETITION!!! There needs to be a rematch.Just poking fun at you two picking on each other. |
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lambeater
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Location: British Columbia, Canada Member Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 381
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« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2010, 09:55 AM » |
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Shane you need more location specific contests to even up the odds. Your next contest should be for a Kapex and only be open to Kiwi's living in Kamloops, British Columbia, Canada!!! Lambeater |
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bonesbr549
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Location: Pottstown PA Member Since: Jan 2008
Posts: 525
I'd rather be woodworking
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« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2010, 10:29 AM » |
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Good intentions! I'd say there have been numerous times I set out to do just that, however, time is precious. The job consums a huge amount of time. Sadly I do not work with wood as a profession. The only real time I get to work with the passion is week-ends mostly. I also have commitments with the family, so time to perform the task is limited. Secondly, some of the contests were for reviews of tools I don't have (that list is getting smaller). I guess the other reason is some folks have put a lot of effort and produced some real quality and I just figured I could not compete. Now if it's a lottery type deal where if you submit you get a equal chance at the prize that would be different. I have enjoyed all of the responses and found them valuable.
If I might make a suggestion, have folks submit to you Shane, or a box or something, and at the end post them all with the winners announced however the method, judged or lottery type winner or winners. JM2CW
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Steve Baumgartner
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Location: North of Boston, Massachusetts, USA Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 98
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« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2010, 12:57 PM » |
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I have no issue with FOG running "contests" and I really appreciate the effort Shane puts in. But I generally don't enter raffles, lotteries, etc. for the same reason I don't gamble: my life experience is that I will not win, and I don't get enough excitement out of participation to make up for the disappointment. You gamblers are welcome to bet however you want, it just isn't for me  . Actual contests are a different story. I'm proud of the work I do and willing to go head-to-head against other woodworkers. However, the only time I entered a FOG contest (way before Shane's time) I felt that the judging was biased. I got the feeling that the winner was selected based more on established participation in FOG (I was a newbie) than on the merit of the entry. It left a sour taste that isn't Shane's fault, but makes me reluctant to bother again. I also share some of the issues with entering a contest with something I was paid to make vs something another FOGer made on their own nickel. It can take a lot of time to prepare an entry that has a chance of winning, and it seems unfair for me to get paid twice  ! Steve |
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Frank Pellow
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Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2390
Toronto, Ontario, CANADA
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« Reply #40 on: August 24, 2010, 01:37 PM » |
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I do particiapate in most of the contests here and I do enjoy them. I have even been a winner in a FOG contest (twice).  |
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Cheers,
Frank (Festool connoisseur)
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PeterK
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Location: Wet muggy humid South Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 813
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« Reply #41 on: August 24, 2010, 01:58 PM » |
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Well - Frank You know we just felt sorry for you and let you win.  We all know you won a winter's supply of firewood !! Can't have our Northern friend freeze to death. |
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GPowers
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Location: West Coast, USA Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 1666
Metric convert
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« Reply #42 on: August 24, 2010, 02:19 PM » |
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Being a relatively new to the FOG, I was surprised at the lack of participation in the contest. This fact and the value of the prize stimulated me in to participate in the review contest. Not something I normally do. Plus I'am only a part time woodworking hobbyist and spar time is relative scarce. But once I started it was fun.
So thanks Shane for putting on the contests. I would have participated in the MKF 700 router contest, but do not own one.
Looking forward to the next opportunity. Maybe I will be able to participate again.
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Greg Powers
Size:XL
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Rob-GB
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Location: Kent, UK. Member Since: Nov 2009
Posts: 790
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« Reply #43 on: August 24, 2010, 02:26 PM » |
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I like the competitions, they throw up some really interesting things. I have not entered due to not having either experience of the product or not owning something others had not written quality reviews about. The charity one was a different issue, I did not think it proper to post a charity project undertaken prior to my owning a Festool product. ( and installing a new cooker top for an elderly neighbour on New Year's eve when hers broke, would not be much to write about! Trion's have been covered before) . I have posted about things I have and thought needed a bit of a say, and will continue to do so. Hopefully there will something in the future I can have a go at. Keep 'em coming! Rob. |
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Problem? No such thing! Only a solution waiting to be found:- RJ
"A $2 guppy swims......" Deke
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Neill
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Location: USA Member Since: Jun 2008
Posts: 888
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« Reply #44 on: August 24, 2010, 02:37 PM » |
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I do particiapate in most of the contests here and I do enjoy them. I have even been a winner in a FOG contest (twice). Frank, You won because you cheated. You entered!  Neill |
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Kapex, Domino, MFT/3, Rotex 150 FEQ, CT 22E, TS 55, C12 Drill, 1400 Router, Rotex 90 DX, Rotex 125 FEQ, LS 130 EQ Linear, Parallel Guide Set, Deltex 93 E, Trion 300 Barrell Grip, ETS 150/3 EQ, ES125 EQ, Guide Rail Accessory Kit, Sanding Block, various rails, systainers, sortainers, vacuum hoses and accessories for various tools.
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Shane Holland
Festool USA Employee FOG Administrator
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Location: USA Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 5012
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« Reply #45 on: August 24, 2010, 06:06 PM » |
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I nominate that the winner of a contest is the one responsible for choosing the format and theme of the next contest. Good luck, Andreas. We're counting on you!  |
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« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 06:56 PM by Shane Holland »
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Peter Halle
Global Moderator
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Location: Powhatan, Virginia USA Member Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 6398
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« Reply #46 on: August 24, 2010, 06:31 PM » |
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Actually, there MIGHT be a little quick contest before Andreas can come up with one. Shane is a fast typer.
Peter
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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EcoFurniture
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Location: Victoria, BC Member Since: Sep 2008
Posts: 604
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« Reply #47 on: August 24, 2010, 06:54 PM » |
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I nominate that the winner of a contest is the one responsible for choosing the format and theme of the next contest. Good luck, Andreas. We're counting on you! Ok, Ok I'm on it!  |
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EcoFurniture
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Location: Victoria, BC Member Since: Sep 2008
Posts: 604
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« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2010, 07:07 PM » |
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Couple of thoughts: The idea I have in mind will not be aimed at one specific Festool item! That gives a fair chance to everyone. It doesn't matter if you own your own company/shop or not! It will not require a lot of time to participate! It's very simple: Tell us, the most unique, fun, outstanding situation (documented with a picture/video) you had while using any Festool! This could be, for example, working high up on a wind turbine (as shown in a recent video), or you taught you dog ( or cat--Rick, did you read this?!) how to run the TS55, or maybe you converted your rotex into a winch while touring Africa in your Land Cruiser.... Shane, can I also pick the prize? PLLEEEAAAASSSSEEEEEE How is that? |
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rnt80
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Location: Gilbert, AZ Member Since: Mar 2008
Posts: 651
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« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2010, 09:59 PM » |
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I agree with the project based contests, I honestly dont have much time to sit and take a million pictures for a tool review, especially when there are so many reviews out there already. Project based contests for me please.
I would certainly echo this. I guess it's a matter of priorities. Technically speaking I guess I have the time but it's spent working on jobs not taking pictures or writing about the process (more power to those that do). Since the use of these tools is part of my job it would be a huge waste of time if I spent 3-4 hours doing the documenting thing with the hope that it would win me a new tool only to find out that it didn't. It's really just a matter of choice, as I think David mentioned earlier, the ROI is just not worth it to me. |
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mhoy
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Location: Sunnyvale, CA Member Since: Oct 2008
Posts: 110
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« Reply #50 on: August 25, 2010, 01:51 AM » |
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I've participated and actually won something! Many of the projects done by the rest of the members take a lot of time and skill. As to the reviews, well, they too take a lot of time to do a good job. So the best contest for me is one in that a random draw can win.  Ideas: Award a well presented 'how-to' build with pix (many of which have already been posted). How about short projects that take minimal time/skill but improves something around the home/office/etc. Or some kind of short time limit on how long it takes to build something. Mark |
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TS 55 EQ, RO 150, CT 22, CDD 12, DF 500Q, OF 1400, MFT/3, RS400E
Elektra T1
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tigger
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Location: Cape Town, South Africa Member Since: Apr 2010
Posts: 114
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« Reply #51 on: August 25, 2010, 06:04 AM » |
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Hi Shane I've been thinking about this since you posted the question and, like most have already posted, came up with the same answers. But I think I have one extra point for you to consider. Why are school raffles, fun raisers etc so successful? More than one prize is the answer. Not 10 Rotex sanders  (that would be nice) but a first, second, third prize and maybe also a FOG T shirt for the first 20 entrants or runners up. Whatever.  Theis dispells the idea that as an entrant, I have only ONE chance. Now at least, I'm in the running for something. - Make sense? Anyway, thats been my experience from a marketing perspective. |
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If it 'aint Festool, it 'aint a tool at all !
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ScotF
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Location: Southern Orange County, CA, USA Member Since: Jul 2009
Posts: 1363
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« Reply #52 on: August 27, 2010, 12:37 PM » |
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I enjoy the contests/lottery and entered the recent Tool Review contest. I do not own the MFK700 or I would participate and since I am a member, I am not eligible for the magazine subscription. As others have said, limiting the contest to a specific tool or geography will limit participation. I had a lot of fun with my tool reviews and I will enter more contests in the future as I think that they are fun.
Maybe a contest on how Festool has changed the way you work would be interesting...this would apply to anyone who owns one or more Festool tools...many users may only have one Festool tool to start. However, they acquired that tool for a reason and it has more than likely changed how they work in general or on a specific project. Since several folks own multiple tools, we might learn of new tools or unique ways of using our tools that would go beyond a mere review of a tool. I think that the entry should be limited to one per member and maybe you have a drawing at the end to award prizes for first, second, third etc... I like the suggestion of having multple prizes for the entrants.
I do think that Shane, Peter, Matthew and everyone that makes the FOG what it is is doing a great job and I certainly am very appreciative.
Scot
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harry_
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Location: Middleton, NH Member Since: Nov 2009
Posts: 1067
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« Reply #53 on: August 27, 2010, 05:55 PM » |
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some thoughts as echoed by others: Reviews: I had thought to write one, but the best camera I own is my cell phone so I thought the pictures would be sub-par. Additionally as other reviews poured in, I thought, what more can I say that hasn't been said. Projects: Quite easy to be intimidated by some of the others in this group. Maybe to help alleviate some of these inhibitions the contests could be "blind entry" the idea is as follows: (Sorry Shane, this might require some back-end work from you) 1. Announce the contest at the top of the thread. 2. Then make the thread "write only" (users can read only the opening post) until the contest is over and winner is decided. 3. Open the thread to full functionality with the announcement of the winner. By doing it this way there will be no visible 'intimidation factors'. No one will be able to see who has entered what until the contest is over. Another thought: I think that some may not enter because of the prize. We seem to be a fairly respectable bunch and I am willing to bet that if you were giving away <name your tool>, if someone already has one they are less likely to enter. Sure the member _could_ take the new one, and ebay/craig's list the old one, but that just doesn't seem like this group. there is also the issue of 'region specifics'. I think that both of these could be cured (wouldn't know how to deal with it on the Festool side of the equation but...) with a "gift certificate" type thing redeemable at any Festool retailer. This way the winner could pick a tool that (s)he doesn't already own.  |
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Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).
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Dovetail65
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Feb 2008
Posts: 3864
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« Reply #54 on: August 27, 2010, 07:01 PM » |
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Harry it is way to late for that to work. Everyone has already seen the reviews that have been put out on this forum. No one has to actually read a particular thread to know how good the reviews can get. The intimidation is already there even now with no contest. Unless you are brand new to the forum it won't make anyone forget that someone can and probably is putting up something similar to reviews we have read in the past.
And for projects it is the same thing. I have seen eiji and many others work and I am not going to forget about it.
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« Last Edit: August 27, 2010, 07:04 PM by nickao »
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The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.
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harry_
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Location: Middleton, NH Member Since: Nov 2009
Posts: 1067
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« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2010, 07:18 PM » |
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nick, But with the 'blindness', we will never know if they actually entered  |
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Disclaimer: This post is for educational and entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead is purely coincidental. Void where prohibited. Some assembly required. Batteries not included. Contents may settle during shipment. Use only as directed. No other warranty expressed or implied. This is not an offer to sell securities. May be too intense for some viewers. No user-serviceable parts inside. Subject to change without notice. One size fits all (very poorly).
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Peter Halle
Global Moderator
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Location: Powhatan, Virginia USA Member Since: Jul 2007
Posts: 6398
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« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2010, 09:35 PM » |
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Here is a contest that less than 60 people have entered. Open till midnight tonight. Right or wrong you will be entered into a drawing that will be the next FOG project. Here is the link: Look to the future! |
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The tools in my truck were talking the other day. The Dewalts, PC's, Boschs, Makitas were not happy. They also were in the minority. Their complaint: They felt unused and unappreciated since the Festools moved in. I guess the truth hurts.
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Matthew Schenker
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Location: UNITED STATES (US) Member Since: Jan 2007
Posts: 2624
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« Reply #57 on: September 02, 2010, 11:49 AM » |
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However, the only time I entered a FOG contest (way before Shane's time) I felt that the judging was biased. I got the feeling that the winner was selected based more on established participation in FOG (I was a newbie) than on the merit of the entry. It left a sour taste that isn't Shane's fault, but makes me reluctant to bother again. I can guarantee that no FOG contests were ever biased towards established participation. Check out the history of the contests and you'll see that new members won often. However, in certain cases (project-based contests, for example) it's possible that people with more woodworking experience may have had some kind of unintentional advantage. But even that, I believe, was evened out by other factors. Thanks, Matthew |
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Wonderwino
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Location: American Bison Country Member Since: Apr 2008
Posts: 612
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« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2010, 05:46 PM » |
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I always thought they were fixed.  But seriously, since Fuller got my drill in the last contest I participated in, I've lost all my confidence and my wife left me. Thanks Fuller!!! Maybe you should have built a doghouse, Chris!  I like to participate, but I don't always have time. If the prize is something I already have, I leave it for those who really need it. Now let's see, what I DON'T have: OF1400, OF2200, TS55, MFT3s, Kapex, RO150FEQ, Trion, CT36, Carvex, Planex, Vacuum clamp..... |
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Water separates the people of the world; wine unites them.
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pugilato
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Location: Rincón, Puerto Rico Member Since: Mar 2011
Posts: 414
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« Reply #59 on: April 02, 2011, 07:22 PM » |
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To win one of these beautiful pieces of equipment, I'll enter any contest. If I am the only entrant, then I am the winner by default, yes?
One thought is that everyone knows that Festool is somewhat pricey (that's what they say about Macs), so how about a contest on why its worthwhile putting up the extra cash for a festool. It could be written or in a movie format.
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