Author Topic: "Conditioned" Workshop  (Read 3302 times)

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Offline GreenGA

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"Conditioned" Workshop
« on: July 24, 2011, 07:55 PM »
In preparing for the next phase of a project, we started cleaning out/up my workshop, which included looking into as many boxes/bags/whatnot so we could put things where they really belonged.   [embarassed] I came across of set of Freud Router Bits I purchased a couple of years ago and could never locate once they went into the shop.  When I opened the box, I noticed that some of the shafts had surface rust.   Nothing major, but it was there. :(

So, I began to wonder, with all this heat and humidity we're experiencing this past week, what do others do to condition the environment in their workshop.  My shop is a room inside the two-car garage.  It's on the small side, 13x17, but, just barely, enough room to work. Since it is the garage, there was never any conditioning to begin with and I know I never installed anything other than a window fan.  I the winter I use an electric heater but during the summer, it is what it is...  Instead of ducting some of the house AC out there, I had thought of some kind of dehumidifier. 

It's not my comfort I am concerned about, it's the tools and wood.

Any suggestions or opinions would be appreciated.


Never use a 2x4, when a 2x6 will do just as well.

SYS-Lites, CMS/GE, TS55, KAPEX, MFT/3, CXS Kit, C15 Set, C12 Set, T18 Set, Ti15 Set, CT48 w/Boom Arm, Carvex PSBC, HL850, HL65L, RO90, RTS400, DTS400, LS130, DX93, RO150, ETS 150/3, RAS 115/4E, RS2E, Domino 500 & 700 Sets, MFK700 Set, OF1010 EQ, OF1400, OF2000E+, MFS700, FS3000/2, LR 32-SYS+97" rail, 2011 Centrotec Set, Metric and Imperial Zobo Forstner Bit Set, VS600 Dovetail System, Guide Rail Kit, Parallel Guides, Tradesman Cleaning Set, Shinex, lotsa 'tainers (Sys, Sorts, Minis, Midis, Maxis. Attics, Classic, New and Blue).
Coming Attractions: Workcenter, NAINA when available.

Offline RL

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2011, 08:27 PM »
I don't really do much to look after the power tools. In most cases, their lifetimes will end before rust gets to them. I keep my planer covered with a plastic sheet. I keep the festools in their systainers. I pass the vac over them to after using them to get rid of dust. I brush off the MFT and my workbench too. Once a year, I re-oil my workbench.

Hand tools are a completely different story. I look after them obsessively because it affects the way they work. Every day after using them, I wipe down the planes with a rag with a little jojoba oil on it. I store this rag in a tupperware box to prevent it drying out. When the blades need sharpening, I take the opportunity to remove any dust around the bed, frog etc. I also oil the saws after using them. It only takes a few seconds per tool but it really seems to keep them pristine. Until I started oiling them, I had some surface rust on a brand new plane in less than two months. Nothing since.


Online Peter Halle

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2011, 09:03 PM »
I admit that I don't have a shop.  However, I have been using dehumidifiers constantly for the last four years.  I, just me would not be without a dehumidifier either in the house or in a workshop.  Yes they do use electricity, but they also make the areas more comfortable during humid periods.  It is even better if your situation would allow you to get one that has a built in pump so that you could hook up a hose or tube and have it discharge to the outside.

Face it, if you could work in your shop with the door closed, and going outside you found 55% humidity, and then walked into you shop and had 45% humidity, you would be more comfortable.

Two cents worth.

Peter

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2011, 08:28 AM »
I admit that I don't have a shop.  However, I have been using dehumidifiers constantly for the last four years.  I, just me would not be without a dehumidifier either in the house or in a workshop.  Yes they do use electricity, but they also make the areas more comfortable during humid periods.  It is even better if your situation would allow you to get one that has a built in pump so that you could hook up a hose or tube and have it discharge to the outside.

Face it, if you could work in your shop with the door closed, and going outside you found 55% humidity, and then walked into you shop and had 45% humidity, you would be more comfortable.

Two cents worth.

Peter


+1.  I've been using one or two dehumidifiers pretty much year-round to keep the dark red stuff off my tools and help the wood to remain at a consistent humidity level at least until I can finish a job.  I'm planning a shop renovation next year that will include a Mitsubishi split heat-a/c unit for when I'm working out there, and dehumidifiers the rest of the time. 

 [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline GreenGA

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2011, 08:00 PM »
Thanks to all for sharing your experiences with the dehumidifiers and the A/C unit.

Earlier today, I was reading some reviews on the dehumidifiers and the opinions are all over the place.

That Mitsubishi A/C unit idea sounds interesting too.
Never use a 2x4, when a 2x6 will do just as well.

SYS-Lites, CMS/GE, TS55, KAPEX, MFT/3, CXS Kit, C15 Set, C12 Set, T18 Set, Ti15 Set, CT48 w/Boom Arm, Carvex PSBC, HL850, HL65L, RO90, RTS400, DTS400, LS130, DX93, RO150, ETS 150/3, RAS 115/4E, RS2E, Domino 500 & 700 Sets, MFK700 Set, OF1010 EQ, OF1400, OF2000E+, MFS700, FS3000/2, LR 32-SYS+97" rail, 2011 Centrotec Set, Metric and Imperial Zobo Forstner Bit Set, VS600 Dovetail System, Guide Rail Kit, Parallel Guides, Tradesman Cleaning Set, Shinex, lotsa 'tainers (Sys, Sorts, Minis, Midis, Maxis. Attics, Classic, New and Blue).
Coming Attractions: Workcenter, NAINA when available.

Offline Steve R

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2011, 08:13 PM »
In MN with a 140 degree swing in temp.  You need to work in controlled shop if you want it to fit.

A dehumidifier is fine but for the energy cost an A/C is better, faster cheaper in the long run.  Here in the winter we add moisture and in the summer we take it out... 

Shop material not controlled can change so much it won't fit.

Well we all know that don't we...


Never mind....
Cheers,
Steve
"A Festool is a tool, Marian; much better than any other tool: an axe, a shovel or anything. A Festool is still only as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.” ~ Ode to Shane (the movie)

Offline GreenGA

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2011, 08:34 PM »
Oh yes, Steve, we know it.  ;)

Last week all the wood doors on, and most in, the house were sticking.  Even though we take extreme precaution to paint every surface of a door, with at least two coats of primer and two coats of finish.  (top, bottom, sides and yes, even under the hinges and plates)  They are still sticking.  I can only imagine how much the wood in the shop has "moved".  Two weeks ago, we picked up some cheap oak veneered plywood and it never even made it into the shop.  It's still sitting in the kitchen because of the humidity.

Since I posted my message about the dehumidifiers, I have been thinking about the A/C unit. It does have some merit; even with a $400+ monthly electric bill during these hot summer months.  [eek]  [blink]


In MN with a 140 degree swing in temp.  You need to work in controlled shop if you want it to fit.

A dehumidifier is fine but for the energy cost an A/C is better, faster cheaper in the long run.  Here in the winter we add moisture and in the summer we take it out... 

Shop material not controlled can change so much it won't fit.

Well we all know that don't we...


Never mind....
Cheers,
Steve
Never use a 2x4, when a 2x6 will do just as well.

SYS-Lites, CMS/GE, TS55, KAPEX, MFT/3, CXS Kit, C15 Set, C12 Set, T18 Set, Ti15 Set, CT48 w/Boom Arm, Carvex PSBC, HL850, HL65L, RO90, RTS400, DTS400, LS130, DX93, RO150, ETS 150/3, RAS 115/4E, RS2E, Domino 500 & 700 Sets, MFK700 Set, OF1010 EQ, OF1400, OF2000E+, MFS700, FS3000/2, LR 32-SYS+97" rail, 2011 Centrotec Set, Metric and Imperial Zobo Forstner Bit Set, VS600 Dovetail System, Guide Rail Kit, Parallel Guides, Tradesman Cleaning Set, Shinex, lotsa 'tainers (Sys, Sorts, Minis, Midis, Maxis. Attics, Classic, New and Blue).
Coming Attractions: Workcenter, NAINA when available.

Offline richard.selwyn

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2011, 11:08 AM »
I don't have need for ac here in Normandy but as my shop is in an old water mill I run a dehumidifier non stop. About 1 litre of water every couple of days. It's only a small unit and consumes less than a small refridgerato. The shop is about 1200 sq feet I think, with a ( much too) low ceiling.  I use some sort of Japanese oil on my hand tools and industrial anti rust from Felder on the machines. Tools in my mechanical shop, which is not "conditioned" rust pretty quickly.
Richard

Offline kdzito

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2011, 11:37 AM »
Regarding a conditioned environment for Wood Materials the ideal humidity levels are to be between 25% and 55%.  Once you get out of this range the following may potentially happen:

humidity below 25% - materials contract
humidity above 55% - materials expand

This a standard provided by the Architectural Woodwork Institute or AWI. 

Building one day at a time.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2011, 12:29 PM »
Thanks to all for sharing your experiences with the dehumidifiers and the A/C unit.

Earlier today, I was reading some reviews on the dehumidifiers and the opinions are all over the place.

That Mitsubishi A/C unit idea sounds interesting too.

 

More info on that unit is here

 [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline GreenGA

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  • JR
Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2011, 12:50 PM »
Greaaat....  That's 2 grand I had not planned on spending anytime soon.  [crying]

More info on that unit is here
 [smile]
Never use a 2x4, when a 2x6 will do just as well.

SYS-Lites, CMS/GE, TS55, KAPEX, MFT/3, CXS Kit, C15 Set, C12 Set, T18 Set, Ti15 Set, CT48 w/Boom Arm, Carvex PSBC, HL850, HL65L, RO90, RTS400, DTS400, LS130, DX93, RO150, ETS 150/3, RAS 115/4E, RS2E, Domino 500 & 700 Sets, MFK700 Set, OF1010 EQ, OF1400, OF2000E+, MFS700, FS3000/2, LR 32-SYS+97" rail, 2011 Centrotec Set, Metric and Imperial Zobo Forstner Bit Set, VS600 Dovetail System, Guide Rail Kit, Parallel Guides, Tradesman Cleaning Set, Shinex, lotsa 'tainers (Sys, Sorts, Minis, Midis, Maxis. Attics, Classic, New and Blue).
Coming Attractions: Workcenter, NAINA when available.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2011, 01:23 PM »
Those units are well proven.  I remember having the early models installed as supplemental cooling in computer rooms.  For those who ever attend training classes in Indy and stay at the Fairfield, they have one installed for supplemental cooling to the laundry room.

Peter

Offline Alan m

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2011, 01:39 PM »
Those units are well proven.  I remember having the early models installed as supplemental cooling in computer rooms.  For those who ever attend training classes in Indy and stay at the Fairfield, they have one installed for supplemental cooling to the laundry room.

Peter

field trip [scared] [tongue]
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline GreenGA

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2011, 01:46 PM »
Well, maybe I could get in on another class and pull a "Homer".  Instead of towels, bring one of them home instead.  [big grin]

Those units are well proven.  I remember having the early models installed as supplemental cooling in computer rooms.  For those who ever attend training classes in Indy and stay at the Fairfield, they have one installed for supplemental cooling to the laundry room.

Peter
Never use a 2x4, when a 2x6 will do just as well.

SYS-Lites, CMS/GE, TS55, KAPEX, MFT/3, CXS Kit, C15 Set, C12 Set, T18 Set, Ti15 Set, CT48 w/Boom Arm, Carvex PSBC, HL850, HL65L, RO90, RTS400, DTS400, LS130, DX93, RO150, ETS 150/3, RAS 115/4E, RS2E, Domino 500 & 700 Sets, MFK700 Set, OF1010 EQ, OF1400, OF2000E+, MFS700, FS3000/2, LR 32-SYS+97" rail, 2011 Centrotec Set, Metric and Imperial Zobo Forstner Bit Set, VS600 Dovetail System, Guide Rail Kit, Parallel Guides, Tradesman Cleaning Set, Shinex, lotsa 'tainers (Sys, Sorts, Minis, Midis, Maxis. Attics, Classic, New and Blue).
Coming Attractions: Workcenter, NAINA when available.

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #14 on: July 26, 2011, 05:46 PM »
Those units are well proven.  I remember having the early models installed as supplemental cooling in computer rooms.  For those who ever attend training classes in Indy and stay at the Fairfield, they have one installed for supplemental cooling to the laundry room.

Peter


Well, this is a perfectly good reason for an inspection trip, say, the first week in November. 

 [big grin]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline GreenGA

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2011, 06:20 PM »
I agree, unfortunately, I have something else going on at that time and cannot change my plans, or else I would have signed up already.  [crying]

Well, this is a perfectly good reason for an inspection trip, say, the first week in November. 
 [big grin]
Never use a 2x4, when a 2x6 will do just as well.

SYS-Lites, CMS/GE, TS55, KAPEX, MFT/3, CXS Kit, C15 Set, C12 Set, T18 Set, Ti15 Set, CT48 w/Boom Arm, Carvex PSBC, HL850, HL65L, RO90, RTS400, DTS400, LS130, DX93, RO150, ETS 150/3, RAS 115/4E, RS2E, Domino 500 & 700 Sets, MFK700 Set, OF1010 EQ, OF1400, OF2000E+, MFS700, FS3000/2, LR 32-SYS+97" rail, 2011 Centrotec Set, Metric and Imperial Zobo Forstner Bit Set, VS600 Dovetail System, Guide Rail Kit, Parallel Guides, Tradesman Cleaning Set, Shinex, lotsa 'tainers (Sys, Sorts, Minis, Midis, Maxis. Attics, Classic, New and Blue).
Coming Attractions: Workcenter, NAINA when available.

Offline Jesse Cloud

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2011, 07:11 PM »
Greaaat....  That's 2 grand I had not planned on spending anytime soon.  [crying]

More info on that unit is here
 [smile]

Is that really what it costs??
Anyone using this?
This could solve a few problems back at the ranch if its cost effective!

Offline GreenGA

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  • JR
Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2011, 08:30 PM »
That's about what I think it would cost including tax, title and tags.

On-line price was about 1600.  Add in, what I think are, necessary accessories and you're pushing two grand.

As for their effectiveness.

I do believe they work well.  A few years ago I had looked at them as a temporary solution to the second floor of the house being much warmer, some said hotter, than the first floor.  Before it went further, we tracked down every leak in the HVAC ducting system and things improved.  Enough so, that the thought of putting this in faded...

Now, it's back.  [blink]


Is that really what it costs??
Anyone using this?
This could solve a few problems back at the ranch if its cost effective!
Never use a 2x4, when a 2x6 will do just as well.

SYS-Lites, CMS/GE, TS55, KAPEX, MFT/3, CXS Kit, C15 Set, C12 Set, T18 Set, Ti15 Set, CT48 w/Boom Arm, Carvex PSBC, HL850, HL65L, RO90, RTS400, DTS400, LS130, DX93, RO150, ETS 150/3, RAS 115/4E, RS2E, Domino 500 & 700 Sets, MFK700 Set, OF1010 EQ, OF1400, OF2000E+, MFS700, FS3000/2, LR 32-SYS+97" rail, 2011 Centrotec Set, Metric and Imperial Zobo Forstner Bit Set, VS600 Dovetail System, Guide Rail Kit, Parallel Guides, Tradesman Cleaning Set, Shinex, lotsa 'tainers (Sys, Sorts, Minis, Midis, Maxis. Attics, Classic, New and Blue).
Coming Attractions: Workcenter, NAINA when available.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3612
Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2011, 07:35 AM »
Greaaat....  That's 2 grand I had not planned on spending anytime soon.  [crying]

More info on that unit is here
 [smile]

Is that really what it costs??
Anyone using this?
This could solve a few problems back at the ranch if its cost effective!

Well, ask yourself what it would cost for just an equivalent window-shaker plus a small furnace.  I hate to think what it would cost to replace the heat pump at home. 

 [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Rob Z

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2011, 10:22 PM »
I just bought a Soleus 14,000 btu portable unit for my shop/garage. I hope it will work well enough that I can avoid the much more expensive option of a split system.

Offline Jesse Cloud

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  • Festooling at the end of a dirt road in New Mexico
Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #20 on: July 31, 2011, 11:43 PM »
By the way, an air-conditioned "shop" can rightfully be called a "studio". [big grin]

Offline Tom Bellemare

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2011, 12:18 AM »
Jesse:

Here, it's called a house...


Tom
Tom Bellemare
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Tool Home LLC
www.tool-home.com
512-428-9140

Offline Rob Z

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Re: "Conditioned" Workshop
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2011, 12:21 AM »
Hi Jesse,  If I ever call this a studio, then it means that I have become an "artiste".