Author Topic: Another driving near mishaap  (Read 4864 times)

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Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1257
Re: Another driving near mishaap
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2018, 03:19 PM »
In goingmyway's video you can see slush kicked up when he hit that patch where the left lane was suddenly obscured by snow/slush.  This is the winter equivalent of hydroplaning.  Snow tires might have helped a bit, but in all likelihood the outcome would have been similar.  Tires ride up over the top of the slush.  If he knew that lane was going to disappear, the only good solution in this case is speed (or less of it).

The confusing part of selecting tires that nobody really addresses is that the offerings are grouped into several categories in an attempt to simplify the choices.  The reality is there is a continuous spectrum of choices like sanding grits.  Choosing a make a model that uniquely satisfies your requirements isn't easy.  But some people aren't particular either, so they can resort to the broad categories and just pick one from there, as long as you understand what you're getting.  Every tire below is a compromise in some way. 

High performance summers - can lose grip easily when temps fall below 40F, moreso when you add moisture.  Really good wet and dry grip in warm weather, but they can wear out in 20-30K miles.
High performance all seasons - tend to maintain a reasonable level of traction below freezing but not well suited for snow and ice, unless it's the slushy kind that just pushes away as the tire rolls over the pavement.  Once the snow sticks you'll find they don't work well.
All Seasons - more consistent performance across the seasons, but typically don't match the wet and dry traction of the high performance tires in warm weather.  Also can't compete with winters on snow and useless on ice.  This is the one size fits all we have been sold since the 80's.
High performance winters - slightly worse wet and dry traction compared to all seasons, better snow performance and some traction on ice.
Winter tires - wet and dry traction is good below 40F, as you get over 60F they can get greasy and noisy and may wear faster.  Snow traction is terrific if you've never tried them and many will offer usable traction on ice as well.  There is a steep tradeoff in handling with some of these, they can make any car feel like a 1985 chevy caprice. 

Finally, realize that all tires change their characteristics as they age (heat cycles).  Typically their wet traction goes down and so does their snow and ice traction.  So it's not just the depth of the grooves that determine how they will perform.  I've tossed out tires with 50% of their tread left because the wet traction went in the toilet.  In one case I lent a car to a friend and warned him the tires still had lots of tread but I noticed the wet traction deteriorating.  He totalled the car the next morning...in the rain. 

I've been using winter tires for over 20 years in NJ.  I started down that path after trying to take a car with high performance all seasons down a steep hill covered in snow.  The car was new to me at that time and I assumed all seasons meant it was the equivalent of every other car I had driven previous.  Nope.  Despite taking adequate cautions going down that hill, the ABS kicked on fairly early and momentum carried me down the hill, through the stop sign and out into the middle of the main road.  All season my a**!  There was nothing I could have done to get down that hill safely with those tires on. 

Now, if there is someone that says "I've been driving for 40+ years and just use the tires on the car, just slow down!".  Do you wear your dress shoes out in the snow?  You could, but even if you walk slowly, it's a pain in the butt.  If you're going to do it frequently, it's a lot less stressful to put on the right gear and you're much less prone to injury. 
-Raj

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another driving near mishaap
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2018, 04:33 PM »
I have been using Blizzack DM-V2 for quite a few years now on two vehicles (pick up and SUV). On second set for each. Best thing I have had for all types of winter roads.


Seth

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3664
Re: Another driving near mishaap
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2018, 05:12 PM »
I have been using Blizzack DM-V2 for quite a few years now on two vehicles (pick up and SUV). On second set for each. Best thing I have had for all types of winter roads.


Seth

Concur wholeheartedly!  I've had Blizzak WS70s on my AWD Subaru as winter tires since the first winter after I bought it.  Can't say enough good for them. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Another driving near mishaap
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2018, 05:33 PM »


 Agree with the Blizzaks - have them on both our cars.
Festool  Dealer since 2002; user well before that!
            http://bobmarinosbesttools.com
                   Service As It Should Be

Offline Bob Marino

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Re: Another driving near mishaap
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2018, 10:10 PM »
In goingmyway's video you can see slush kicked up when he hit that patch where the left lane was suddenly obscured by snow/slush.  This is the winter equivalent of hydroplaning.  Snow tires might have helped a bit, but in all likelihood the outcome would have been similar.  Tires ride up over the top of the slush.  If he knew that lane was going to disappear, the only good solution in this case is speed (or less of it).

The confusing part of selecting tires that nobody really addresses is that the offerings are grouped into several categories in an attempt to simplify the choices.  The reality is there is a continuous spectrum of choices like sanding grits.  Choosing a make a model that uniquely satisfies your requirements isn't easy.  But some people aren't particular either, so they can resort to the broad categories and just pick one from there, as long as you understand what you're getting.  Every tire below is a compromise in some way. 

High performance summers - can lose grip easily when temps fall below 40F, moreso when you add moisture.  Really good wet and dry grip in warm weather, but they can wear out in 20-30K miles.
High performance all seasons - tend to maintain a reasonable level of traction below freezing but not well suited for snow and ice, unless it's the slushy kind that just pushes away as the tire rolls over the pavement.  Once the snow sticks you'll find they don't work well.
All Seasons - more consistent performance across the seasons, but typically don't match the wet and dry traction of the high performance tires in warm weather.  Also can't compete with winters on snow and useless on ice.  This is the one size fits all we have been sold since the 80's.
High performance winters - slightly worse wet and dry traction compared to all seasons, better snow performance and some traction on ice.
Winter tires - wet and dry traction is good below 40F, as you get over 60F they can get greasy and noisy and may wear faster.  Snow traction is terrific if you've never tried them and many will offer usable traction on ice as well.  There is a steep tradeoff in handling with some of these, they can make any car feel like a 1985 chevy caprice. 

Finally, realize that all tires change their characteristics as they age (heat cycles).  Typically their wet traction goes down and so does their snow and ice traction.  So it's not just the depth of the grooves that determine how they will perform.  I've tossed out tires with 50% of their tread left because the wet traction went in the toilet.  In one case I lent a car to a friend and warned him the tires still had lots of tread but I noticed the wet traction deteriorating.  He totalled the car the next morning...in the rain. 

I've been using winter tires for over 20 years in NJ.  I started down that path after trying to take a car with high performance all seasons down a steep hill covered in snow.  The car was new to me at that time and I assumed all seasons meant it was the equivalent of every other car I had driven previous.  Nope.  Despite taking adequate cautions going down that hill, the ABS kicked on fairly early and momentum carried me down the hill, through the stop sign and out into the middle of the main road.  All season my a**!  There was nothing I could have done to get down that hill safely with those tires on. 

Now, if there is someone that says "I've been driving for 40+ years and just use the tires on the car, just slow down!".  Do you wear your dress shoes out in the snow?  You could, but even if you walk slowly, it's a pain in the butt.  If you're going to do it frequently, it's a lot less stressful to put on the right gear and you're much less prone to injury.

 Well said!
Festool  Dealer since 2002; user well before that!
            http://bobmarinosbesttools.com
                   Service As It Should Be

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: Another driving near mishaap
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2018, 12:16 AM »
Michelin Defender LTX M/S for All Seasons. I don't have any dry traction trouble and they are great on water, pretty good on light snow. They extend my All Season season enough that I can generally use them into late Fall and then back on in early Spring. Helps preserve the softer rubber on the winter tires. Instead of others I've had that would get swapped in early Fall and late Spring. 

Seth

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3662
Re: Another driving near mishaap
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2018, 03:18 PM »
I got myself a dash cam after we got rear ended and sandwiched in the middle sitting at a stop light in October 2015.  We obviously were not at fault as we were completely stopped, but both insurance companies asked how close we were to the car in front of us.  Evidently you're supposed to leave a good distance between you and the car in front of you when you stop at a red light.  I wanna say they said something like 1 whole car length - I kept thinking to myself NOBODY leaves that much space in between when stopped at a light.

I was out of HS, but worked for a year before going to college (UCONN Rattcliff-Hicks School of Ag). I was a wild driver in those days and would think about what I would have done in different situations. consequently, i had few surprises in spite of my reckless ways. I was driving on the Post Road in Westport, Ct and there were a couple of fairly steep hills coming down into town. At one light, I was pulling up beside a large tractor trailer loaded with scrap iron.  As we approached the light, it turned red.  I had no problm stopping, but that truck had gotten almost to the center of the crossing lane before came to  a stop.  While applying his brakes, there was a squeal laoud and long. I chalked that info into my brain and thought about actions to take should that  load still be close behind at the next light.

The traffic was moderate, but the bridge at the botom of the hill was sort of a bottleneck with only two lanes where at each end there were four lanes  coming and going. I just could not make it thru the next  lite before it  changed to red. I had one car  in front and maybe three or four behind me and I was waiting to hear the squeal which I knew would be coming from that  load of iron. Sure enough, the sound rang out. All the cars from the light on back to the big truck were bumper to bumper except I had left a little room between my car and the  lone car ahead of me. I started to pull ahead, angling a little towards the left when I heard the "THUMP!".  At that piont, since there was nothing coming towards me, I just whipped out into he oncoming lane as I heard "thump> thump......" and the last thump was the car that had been behind me bumping into the car that had been in front of me.  Since at that point, the lite changed and I was now blocking oncoming traffic, and there was nothing I could add to the situation other than join the angry mob, I just moved on.
Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3664
Re: Another driving near mishaap
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2018, 10:03 AM »
Many years ago when I went to work for the local telephone company, in order to be allowed to drive company vehicles, we had to attend and pass company driving school.  One item was the concept of stopping no closer to the vehicle in front of us than it takes to see where the tires of that vehicle touch the pavement.  That has served me well in private life, as well.  We also had to ride "The Sled".  The Sled was a trailer-mounted device that taught the necessity of wearing seat belts.  All Sled riders had to empty all pockets and remove their glasses before riding.  The rider then sat in the sled and put on a seat belt.  The sled was cranked up a short incline before being released.  When it hit the end of the track, it hit with the impact of a 5 mph collision.  That impact made quite an impression on those that thought they were invincible. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline GoingMyWay

  • Posts: 649
Re: Another driving near mishaap
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2018, 11:34 AM »
I couldn't imagine that they still have people riding the sled nowadays or do they?
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