Author Topic: cowboy builder  (Read 1898 times)

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Offline Tom Bainbridge

  • Posts: 1009
  • Limey Carpenter
cowboy builder
« on: April 23, 2008, 05:39 PM »
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/itn/20080423/tuk-builder-takes-revenge-over-unpaid-bi-dba1618.html


im not sure how to make this a link for you guys. but please try



long and short of it in england a builder / tradesman who does a bad job is called a "cowboy"

AND

the english press would have it that ALL builders and ALL tradesmen are "cowboys"

BUT

in this particular case EVEN the local council agree with the builder
Bromley, Kent. UK

aka dirtydeeds

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2008, 05:51 PM »
It is totally illegal to do that here. The builder would be put in jail. Don't ask how I know. The builder would have been better off  putting a lean on the property and if they ever sold he would have received his money. Now he has the work put in building and the work for the demo and  he is not getting a dime now for sure.

22,000 British pounds = 43,128.8 U.S. dollars. Who does a job that small and leaves that big a balance for the end? Heck, by the time I completed that job the client may owe me a couple of thousand dollars at most or it would never have been completed in the first place. Progress payments anyone.

Nickao
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 06:17 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Robert Robinson

  • Posts: 721
  • southern Indiana, U.S.A.
Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2008, 05:55 PM »
I bet she doesn't do that again.
TS-55, FS-KS angle unit, 55 inch guide rail, Domino (pin style), 3 Domino systainer assortments(one sipo set),Multi-position Guide Stop 20, Domiplate , PSB-300, FOGtainer 4, CXS set

Offline Tom Bainbridge

  • Posts: 1009
  • Limey Carpenter
Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2008, 06:19 PM »
both of you are correct

99.9% of the time the bad payer ALWAYS gets gets away with it in england AND the law will ALWAYS back them up



however...................... even in england................... some customers are SO BAD
« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 06:23 PM by dirtydeeds »
Bromley, Kent. UK

aka dirtydeeds

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2008, 06:24 PM »
The only benefit I see for the builder is the shear satisfaction of tearing it down. Looks like he vented his frustration pretty well!

Nickao
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Tom Bainbridge

  • Posts: 1009
  • Limey Carpenter
Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2008, 06:33 PM »
totally agree that is the ONLY satisfaction the builder got in this case

and once and only once that he was backed up by law, local council etc







what i guess im curious about is is this standard in american law

is the customer (generally) assumemed to be right regardless of correctness




Bromley, Kent. UK

aka dirtydeeds

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2008, 06:42 PM »
In my specific case anything on the clients property that was attached to the main house could not be taken down without the owners permission. Though the owner owes money and you can try to sue, usually you just have to lien the property. When they sell you get what they owe plus interest.

If you tried dismantling like the builder in this case, the police could definitley arrest you for destruction of property, trespassing, theft(If you take stuff away) and a multitude of other minor offenses.  If I built a Gazebo and it was not connected to the house I could have taken it away, but then the client possibly could be owed money depending on the specific contract.

To me its best to get progress payments, list it in the contract and stop work at the point they miss a payment. This gives the client incentive to pay or they have a project half complete. I would never go that far with someone owing me that much money, unless of course it was a 400,000.00 job. 10% at the completion of a job is common. But on the job in the article it looks like half if not more of the money was owed.

I am sure the laws vary state by state here in the US. I only speak from one experience I had years ago and the people paid up.

Nickao

« Last Edit: April 23, 2008, 07:19 PM by nickao »
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Tom Bainbridge

  • Posts: 1009
  • Limey Carpenter
Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2008, 07:15 PM »
no question in this case

the builder should have secured himself much better payment terms and conditions

at my scale of work i require materials plus delivery/collection costs before i even place an order for gear (materials)

some clients object..................... stuff them

when youve been stuck with 20,000 dollars of kitchen and no payment, you NEVER EVER get caught again

it ticks some customers off......................................they can ALL go to heck regardless of who they are 
Bromley, Kent. UK

aka dirtydeeds

Offline Dan Rush

  • Posts: 569
  • Trim carpenter
Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2008, 09:04 PM »
Years ago, I spent some quality time at the local jail because I retrieved what I thought at the time was my property. I had installed a very expensive front entry door and sidelight set that the customer just would not pay for.  I've certainly learned a lot since.  Nickao is right, anything attached to or in some states even on the property is not up of grabs. 

But, contractors lien laws in the U.S. and specifically in Illinois are very strong.  The contractor can not only file a lien against the property securing his/her rights, but once a lien is filed, can successfully follow through with foreclosure.  In my state,anyway, it is not necessary to wait for the homeowner to sell for satisfaction. Anyone with an interest in the property (bank, contractor, ex-spouse) can file for forclosure for satisfaction. 

In 25 years I have filed for foreclosure only 3 times, but none have gone through the full route.  The banks or other lien-holders have always stepped in to settle. 

Again I agree with the above posts, it's always better to have strong, fair, and frequent payout schedules.

Dan

Offline Eli

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  • A Yankee in Kangaroo Court
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Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2008, 08:09 AM »
Definitely. Going out on a limb like that is not worth it. You find the ones who pay before you do the work. I want to know how much they're willing to spend, where it's coming from, and if they're comfortable with my terms.
Show me the Cha-ching! ;D
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2008, 12:50 PM »
Dan I am sure glad I never had to go as far as starting a foreclosure on someone!  What about attorney fees, did you get them back? Did this end up costing the homeowner more then in the first place or did you settle on less.

Nickao
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline Dan Rush

  • Posts: 569
  • Trim carpenter
Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #11 on: April 24, 2008, 01:37 PM »
Two times we settled fairly quickly.  I took a small hit each time, but not too bad.  The third time the bank that held the mortgage actually ponied up the dough and I assume tacked it on to the mortgage. 

Each of the amounts were fairly small (low thousands).  Hence the need for good payout schedules.  But each time I felt the owners were just plain out to get a freebie, and that really sends me into orbit.  I don't steal, and I expect others I work with to do the same.

I'm glad I'm not in that end of the business anymore.

Dan

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: cowboy builder
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2008, 01:51 PM »
I am glad it all worked  out for you.

Nickao
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.