Here's the deleted post from the other thread about festool rails compared to this system. I've never tried it, and wrote these comments after watching the product demo video. Apologies if you think the EZ is the best thing since sliced bread.

"I just watched this video for the ]EZ, and I'm not sure how these compare. I'm newly appreciative of safe working conditions now that I have Festool.

Eli,
Safety comes from the ability to cut narrow stock and to have repeatability without the need to use dangerous tools.
Ez delivers safety in many ways.  ( Smart clamping system,  repeaters, powerbench  and more )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrrjLYn-6WY   
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Jgr-RGFYQ


Over 5 years without one kickback reported yet. I don't think you can say that for any other system.
The records shown otherwise.





First of all, are you using this rail with Festool stuff? No dust extraction then (others will do it, but really, are they as good at that? One point Festool)

I will take this point back. You can have better dust collection with a simple ez dust port and dust shield.
In this video you can see the results. If not 100%, 99% for sure.
Make a similar video and if you can achieve the same results, I will give you your dust point. 
Dust collection on the PC 314. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLdMtNVMFl8

Second, in the product video the demonstrator didn't clamp the work down. Why? because there is no function with this to clamp the rail to the work that I saw. Let alone a dedicated table to cut on that holds most workpieces for crosscutting captive (The MFT is both of these and more. Point two, Festool)


No need to clamp the materials when using the repeaters. But  If you like to use clamps, you can use the smart clamps with the repeaters. The first generation of the ez repeaters offered an integrated smart clamping system. After customer feedback, we remove the smart clamping system from the repeaters and lower the price by $100.00.


Third, Did you notice how, having not clamped the rail to the work or the work to the table, he has to hold the offcut behind the saw's path? Somebody will lose a thumb someday. The way the stops are designed on this rail you must maintain pressure against the outside of the offcut to keep it accurate. He makes a point of that. That means every time you cut you automatically risk binding.

To lose a thumb you must first have a kickback. The super strong, double wall extruded ez rails keep the saw flat and stable to the  1/4" track. The  large ez smart base provides  even more stability. There is no flexing = no kickback.

 Do other saws plunge? Some. Do other saws have a retractable riving knife to prevent kickback? I don't know of any. He also demonstrates that to finish the cut, you must reach in next to the blade and flick the guide away. Every cut. (I'm going to call that game in favor of Festool)

All saws can plunge. Maybe not as accurate as a plunge saw but with more safety.
A front plunge saw is not always the best way to plunge.
On the other hand, a plunge saw is only good for some tasks. Not the right saw for free hand cuts
 and not always the easiest and safest saw on the guide rails.


There are pages and pages of threads here on how to get square cuts on your MFT. At least four or five major tips I can think of (few of which I've actually used, I just tried real hard and set it square, then made a pencil mark on the top so I could reset it. I check it every so often. It's close enough for G jobs most of the time, and when it's really critical, I check it again.)

I agree on that one. Pages and pages. Close enough. Check it again.

I wouldn't even put these things in the same class. I'm not taking away from anyone who uses them and loves them. Massive respect  Grin to all workers and work methods. I just don't think it's a fair match."

I unfortunately own an EZ.  I purchased that in lieu of the Festool guide rail system because of cost.  I should know better than to buy cheap because you always get what you pay for.

It does have clamps to attach to the work piece.  The problem with those clamps are they are located  towards the sides of the rails, so when you clamp to the work piece it is not parallel to the work piece. Please give more details - the clamps just hold the workpiece to the rail. The other problem I have with it is you have to attach a plastic base that has the groove to ride on the guide rail to your saw.  It is a universal base and the countersunk holes provided did not work with my saw, so I had to make my own.Most saws require you to drill new holes - that's the flexibility of the system. It allows you to use a $100 saw instead of a $500 saw.  The other issue with attaching this base is it has to be perfectly parallel to the saw blade, which is not easy to do.Yes, it needs to be parallel (just like a TS) but not perfectly - there are leveling screws provided to help alignment. If the manufactures made their saw bases parallel to the blade you wouldn't need adjusting screws (imagine people using straight edges with a stock saw base edge - the gross misalignment just makes the saw & you work harder). Today you could also buy an EZ-Ready saw or send in your own to EZ and they will apply the base for you.

I'm hoping to get the TS 75/MFT combo next month when I get my bonus from work.  The reason I say hoping is my son is getting married in September and the money may end up being used for that.  Maybe I should buy that as a wedding present then I could use it when ever I wanted.  FYI he does not do any wood working.

Mike,

The deciding factor for me is this -- I have seen lots of posts (in a number of forums) by people who had the EZ and bought Festool, and compare the two -- these poster ALWAYS put Festool ahead.

There are a lot of people who want to defend only the tool they have.  These opinions are usually not too valuable to me, because they don't represent a legitimate comparison.

I have never tried the EZ system.  I have had the Festool saws and rails for a number of years -- no reason to switch!

I will try to explain.  The anti chip edges holds the rail off the workpiece and when you clamp it tips the rail slightly to the side you placed clamp.  That's what I think it is.  I may be all wet.   Mike I will try to get a picture of the problem tomorrow.

Hi Dino,

Nice to see someone stand behind their product like this! Looks like a well thought out design!

Victor

Wouldn't it be prudent to take this discussion to your own forum at Sawmill Creek, rather than continuing it here?

It is one thing to be off topic, and yet another far different thing to be a company owner posting what amounts to product promotions on a forum that focuses on a competitors products.

I frankly did not see anything wrong with Dino posting here.  It appears as soon as someone posts content that is a perceived Festool competitor the Forum police come out to restore the balance.

Are we getting overly sensitive here?

I personally think it bad manners to suggest a member go back to another Forum to post.  

Talk about creating a walking on egg shells enviroment here.

Victor

Did I say there was something wrong with Dino posting here?

Of course not, you merely suggested he pack up  and go back where he came from.

Hi Dino,

Wouldn't it be prudent to take this discussion to your own forum at Sawmill Creek, rather than continuing it here?

Good Evening,
A little more history to add to Per's details...

Back in 2004, in the old Yahoo version of the Festool Owners Group, I extended an invitation to Dino to join the forum.  Why did I do that?  Well, I thought it would be fair, and because I thought the feuding was not necessary.  I honestly thought I could help mend fences.  Well, what ensued was one of the earliest fights in FOG history.  Members of my own forum became quite irate at me for doing this, and it took me by surprise (I myself dfid not truly understand the level of hostility, since I had not frequented the various forums at that time).  Most regrettable, I had some very uncomfortable exchanges with a couple of the most valuable FOG members (I won't mention names, but you remember who you are).

Well, I smoothed things over with the FOG members, and we're just fine today.  In fact, one of them has become one of my most trusted virtual friends.  I learned it was a big mistake for me to invite Dinoe and EZ into the FOG!

To make matters worse, Dino wrote several disparaging remarks about me on a prominent woodworking forum, including me in his general effort to criticize Festool.  Talk about showing a lack of class and decency for someone who put his neck on the line for you.

So, to members of the FOG, let me say this: Dino can come here and post, but he's on a short leash.

To Dino: you can post responses to direct criticism of your products.  But do not use this forum to promote EZ Smart.

Thanks,
Matthew

d.epstein,
You could probably find it if you did a search on Fine Woodworking's forum. 

Matthew

To make matters worse, Dino wrote several disparaging remarks about me on a prominent woodworking forum, including me in his general effort to criticize Festool.  Talk about showing a lack of class and decency for someone who put his neck on the line for you.

Matthew,
I remember the thread on FW. It was something like that:

Matthew:
The problems with all guide systems is the ability to hold and cut narrow stock.
Festool and eurekazone are working on it.

Me. Dinoe?:
Matthew, You're making a false statement.
We offer the smart clamping system for over a year now and you know that.
Can you please take your statement back?

Matthew:
The Festool system is superior, made in Germany...  Without retreating your misleading and untrue statements about the capabilities of the ez smart system/smart clamping system.

What you expect from someone under attack by you and your F-troops?
You must think that most people are minions.
If someone calls anyone"Minion" in my forum I will  delete his post and tell him to take a hike.
You on the other hand allowed your troops to call me and other ez users "minions"
A quick search in your forum reveals just that.


So, to members of the FOG, let me say this: Dino can come here and post, but he's on a short leash.

Matthew,
This is not the only place where I can speak.
I will make a video with the Festool VS eurekazone story. With facts and only facts.
The true is that you and other paid  Festool contractors started the Festoolian wars against me and eurekazone.

To Dino: you can post responses to direct criticism of your products.  But do not use this forum to promote EZ Smart.

Thanks,
Matthew

IMHO, it would be best for all concerned if those old F vs EZ wars were left in the archives.  Speaking from personal experience, nobody will benefit from reviving any of that stuff.  The sooner this thread dies, the better.

I appreciate that the more experienced among us sharing some history.  As a newbie, I was a bit puzzled my the emotion I picked up reading the posts.

I don't quite understand the marketing strategy of the EZ folks.  I was literally interested in ordering one of the products, and was perusing their website..... THEN I read the owner's posts, and promptly decided that I would never, ever order anything from such a person.  If I was marketing a product, I would probably not go out of my way to insult an entire forum, its members, the tools they use, or the forum's administrator.  Strange.

But then again, thank you Dino for saving me several hundred dollars.

No need to reply, done deal.   Hope it felt good to "win."

EZ Blowsit

Good Morning,

Another thing, this helps the Festool Owners Group.  We've had some disagreements around here lately, and a discussion like this shows that we agree more than we disagree.

Yo Dino,

Here's a new EZ Challenge for you.  Take this thread to the EurekaZone (EZ-Smart System) forum at Sawmill Creek.  Let's see how long it would take for the discussion to be shut down, the thread deleted and the EZ forum closed.

now, I tried rip it with the Festool rail system and I
simply cant get perpendicular cuts

it seems
like all of the professional woodworkers here at the
FestoolOwnersGroup thinks the Festool is a much better
system

now, my only concern is to get perpendicular and square
cuts, so could anybody tell me how to do it with Festool
MFT and my TS75 plunge saw?

I spent good money on Festool MFT and rails and it
doesn't work.

Hi all,  ....

If and after you use this fancy intertoob feature here, search
( don't worry I added the criteria for you),

have been using the MFT for the last 2 years and it seems
to me like its just not constructed for solid wood

I've used the TS 75 (w/ standard blade) and MFT 800 to turn 10/4 mahogany into square table legs that need almost no sanding.

If you think about it, you have to have at least one flat surface on the slab before you start ripping because you need a reference surface for the guide rail. It doesn't have to be perfect - just enough planar parts that the guide rail can sit on them as you make the series of cuts. The bottom of the rough piece has to have enough touch points to have, at the very least, one point touching the table for each leg piece. Then, those cuts will all be parallel and the pieces cut off can be used to support the guide rail as you run out of real estate for the guide rail to sit on.

As you cut the first piece, put it at the uncut end and continue that until you make the last cut. This way the guide rail will remain in the same configuration from first cut to last cut. If you cut a piece that didn't have a touch point as discussed in the first paragraph, don't use it as fill in support.

Now that you have a series of parallel cuts, you can easily make the cuts that are normal to the first two cuts on each piece.

The guide rail, when properly supported, will ensure either TS cuts straight and normal to the rail.


Tom

Sure sounds like an imposter to me....

only three posts and all about Eureka zone?  Sounds like Dino's new gorilla marketing program in action to me.

Julian

I found a new feature:

[ ERROR: SPECIFIED ATTACHMENT MISSING ]

You are aware, Rey, that everything you have documented in your "A Festool MFT/TS55 Retrospective" thread has been determined to be impossible by the OP of this thread. 

Come clean, Rey. All of those wonderful shots with nice square and parallel dadoes, grooves, tongues, and half-laps must have been staged in the Nevada desert where they did all the fake moon-landing shots. Did Bob Swenson help you out? 







^{...for immediate implementation}

 

You are aware, Rey, that everything you have documented in your "A Festool MFT/TS55 Retrospective" thread has been determined to be impossible by the OP of this thread. 

Come clean, Rey. All of those wonderful shots with nice square and parallel dadoes, grooves, tongues, and half-laps must have been staged in the Nevada desert where they did all the fake moon-landing shots. Did Bob Swenson help you out? 

 David,

  I really try to stay waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay afield of the EZ stuff. But, with all due respect, if "Nils" was genuinely looking for information, rather than controversy, he would have been met with a much more positive response. And, I will be perfectly honest here; I personally doubt "Nils" whole story, even doubt his identity.
 I have been around the Festool - EZ stuff since the beginning and can and will tell you Dino has posted anonymously asking things like like "hey did anyone hear about the EZ system?"as a way of getting a discussion started about his system. And when Festool won some award and EZ didn't, posted to the effect "OK - Festool advertises big $$ in mag, Festool wins ward. Ez doesn't advertises there; no award - hhhmmm?"Terrible insinuation. I have met Dino personally (both of us live in NJ and attended the NJ WW shows) spoke to him on the phone and emailed him. Nice guy, but don't like his marketing tactics. Let the products speak for themselves; don't tear down another's to make yours look good. I have often remarked on the forums, I couldn't imagine another CEO/owner behaving this way - can you see Rob Lee of Lee Valley knocking Tom Lie Nielson's products? I can't.  Enough old history.
 I think by and very large, the FOG members are willing to help anyone come up with a better way to work - just look at the responses, manuals, tutorials that are available here. But when someone, in this case, "Nils" seems to have another agenda in mind, stoking the Festoll-EZ feud, it's a good probability, he's going to be called on it, by the folks that are not looking for a fight, but by those who have been down this road too many times before.
 At the risk of attaining Bad Karma, I feel this one time, I needed to chime in. No worries, no more.

 Bob

  Bob