I like to think my post count will ALWAYS be low. I prefer listening (reading) to speaking (writing) - I find I learn more that way.

No, I'm seriously not. You either mean that like I'm also posting as EricL, or I'm trying to be hostile. Neither is happening, but I would venture a guess that there is something going on between the lines here that isn't immediately apparent without IP logs...

Graphex, graphex, graphex, how did I know you would reply?  As I have stated previously, I have followed this forum since the yahoo days.  I just recently purchased my first Festool products and have been catching up here.  I love how your type always tries to divert the focus.  What Bob wrote was far more hostile than anything I wrote.  But lets let that lie.

What is your motivation?  In a previous post you said you have spoken to Chris on the phone regarding a business issue.  Who are you working for?  I know for a fact that you are a big fan of Timmy.  You see, I don't just run my mouth, I do research first.  I know you have purchased from him and wrote glowingly about him.  Have you done web/graphics work for him as well?  Several of the recent aggitators on this site have also been customers/affiliated with him.  Please see my previous post for more on what I am implying.  

I can't help but notice your recurring theme that Matthew should respect the members more.  I really don't see how he can.  But I certainly see how the members can respect him more.  If I was him, I would hit the delete button on every one of these threads but he is more patient than me.  

You have made your point time and again, at this juncture you are just being redundant.  Like the little tank graphic btw.
Your pal,
Eric

I commend you for your research. So the deal with Chris was that he wanted me to give him an estimate on doing his website. Sites like that tend to be more trouble than they're worth, but I quoted him something in the neighborhood of $5k, and he decided not to use me.

Yes, I've purchased about half my tools from TimmyC and don't have complaints. When he was in town talking to his web folks (who are in denver) I had lunch with him and he paid (although I awkwardly offered to pay for mine). To the extent that I don't exactly know his involvement in TalkFestool, I was offered the position of "moderator" of their computer stuff section, which I declined. During my paid-for lunch with TimmyC he mentioned something about doing some web stuff, but I'm honestly doubtful that anything will come of it.

From what I can tell through self-assessment, my motivation here is essentially to try to get Matthew to stop banning people whose presence I miss. I'm sure there are secondary motivations, but they're more things like:
-It would be nice if more people ran this board and we wouldn't have to worry about another July 4th episode happening
-Matthew deleted some of my posts and I didn't like it

But I really have no interest in recruiting people to buy from FestoolJunkie or for Dino EZ whatever. You may have correctly identified my "type" - I am a bit of a gossip. I try not to be mean to people, but I do love myself a good flame war. I'd say it is on par with watching the olympics. Although, you may have to wait until tomorrow if this goes much longer for another response, because I'm about to see what my TiVo recorded today.

I don't think this thread is long for this world. It's likely to get locked and moved into the dustbin or whatever soon.

So graphex, are you being sarcastic there or have you always been jealous of Per?

Just wondering

What can I say, both. 

I'm one for a good quote and this one I believes sums up the nature of  this thread.

"Inferiors revolt in order that they may be equal, and equals revolt that they may be superior."

Aristotle

WTM,

I'm not sure if you addressed that to me, but I'd say maybe not human nature, but it sure looks like it here and now.

Gentlemen:

Speculating on what has happened will not change things.  It will just wera and tear on the finger tips.  There are many who have posted that I and we will miss in this forum.  Some banned, some who decided that they would say good bye.  Frankly, this thread is kind of like being a visitor to your own wake.  I say that because as  I write this there are quite a few who have recently said good bye who are visiting this site and possibly this thread.  To those I say thank you to all your positive contributions.

Peter

Everyone,
Ron, Joe, Eric, and Peter have put their finger on crucial issues here regarding TF.  In short, that forum was set up as a protest to the Festool Owners Group.  For several weeks, there has been a deliberate attempt by managers and founders of the protest site to undermine the FOG.

As long as they spread their misinformation offline, I have chosen let it go and not bring it up in the FOG.  I've even ignored their abuse of the FOG PM system.  However, recently, the administrators of the protest site have chosen to move their campaign into the FOG, and that's when they crossed a red line.  The lenient and open policies of the FOG have been abused by the administrators of the protest site.

Now they have opened the floodgates, and it's time for me to share some facts about the protest site.  I've been silent about all this, and would have kept it silent if the administrators of the protest site had not chosen to cross that line.

Facts about the protest site:
- Several members of the FOG joined that site, and were banned by the TF moderators when they wrote about the FOG using the TF PM system.

- Three members of the FOG had their posts deleted (without notice) and were banned from the protest site because they asked about who funds TF and who owns the TF domain.  To date, the administrators of TF have refused requests to explain who owns the TF domain, or where support for their site comes from.  They ban people who insist on getting this information.

- The protest site is registered through Domains By Proxy, whose motto is "Your Identity is Nobody's Business but Ours."  This conceals details of the ownership of the protest site.  By contrast, details about the ownership and control of the FOG are readily available to all members.

- Managers of the protest site have been using the FOG PM system to recruit new members to TF.  They have done this, even as they banned people who use their PM system to mention the FOG.

- Almost all members and administrators of the protest site are customers of a single dealer, and that dealer is also the only dealer active in that forum.  This same dealer was one of the most active dealers on the FOG.  His last post on the FOG is dated June 13, which coincides with the opening of TF.  Within days of the opening of TF, this dealer removed all mention of the FOG from his company blog.  Upon its opening, this dealer was the moderator of the dealer section of TF.

- Most of the problems we have experienced in the FOG originated with founders of the protest site.  Those problems are concurrent with the opening of the protest site.  For example, Dan Clark posted his hostile remarks about me and this forum on June 5, within one week of the opening of the protest site.  Dan Clark was a founding member of the protest site and is a moderator on TF.  Ned Young's public exit from the FOG also occurred within a week of the opening of TF.  Ned Young is also a founder and moderator on TF.

There is a lot more, but that's enough for now.

I believe that if people put the above facts together, they will understand the mission and purpose of TF.

I would prefer to not deal with the protest site any longer.  Other forums by themselves are never a threat to our forum.  The problem lies in attempts to undermine this forum, attack this forum's members or leadership, or abuse this forum's PM system.

Thanks,
Matthew

I believe the answer lies in putting all the facts together.

Here's a hint of what people may have been protesting...

Ned Young, one of the founders of TF and a moderator on that site, wrote a document called "Forum ownership," which he distributed around the time TF was established.  In that document, Ned states his opinions about forum ownership , directly referring to me and the FOG.

I've attached Ned's document here for people to review.  Remember, as you read this, that Ned was a founding member of TF.  And as you read this document, keep in mind what I have written above regarding the other founding members and the dealer/commercial interests of that forum.

I believe that if you read Ned's document, the answer becomes clear about what I mean by a "protest forum." 

Thanks,
Matthew

Seems like a whole lot of fuss about a forum that has existed for over two months and has less than 200 members, even with all of the "publicity" that it has received.  Hmmm.

I agree, and I have long had the attitude of ignoring them.  My attitude changed when they began using the FOG to promote their forum and openly attack me.

I'm going to lock this discussion soon, and see if we can get back to regular business here.  If the TalkFestool people cease their attacks and promotion, I will not mention their forum again.  If they return with more attacks, I will respond with more facts about their forum.


It illustrates why I call TF a "protest forum."  It also points out why promotion of that forum has received a different response here than the mention of some other, neutral, forum.  Again, put all the facts together and I think the picture of what's going on becomes quite clear.


I also hope that's not the case.  All I know is the facts I quoted above regarding the founders of TF, the decisions of the TF management to ban members who question them, and the timing of certain events related to a prominent dealer in that founding.

Thanks,
Matthew