Author Topic: I have a question about debris from a job you do?  (Read 1910 times)

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Offline Don T

  • Posts: 1682
  • Phoenix, Az
I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« on: May 08, 2017, 11:53 PM »
When you bid a job to remove something and replace is the the removal of the debris included in your quote?  I am have some tile and hardwood floors removed and replaced with new tile so I can sell my house.  My realtor uses this guy to do his flips.  My realtor sends a text today stating we need to get a dumpster at the house so they can start demolition.  What is your opinion of this deal?
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Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 58
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2017, 01:29 AM »
Realtors typically find contractors that offer the lowest price possible for flips. What does the contract say or do you even have a contract with this guy?


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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 260
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2017, 04:57 AM »
I would say that unless you negotiated some price break with the contractor BEFOREHAND that the contractor is responsible to clean up any mess he makes. AFTER the work starts and if you were to approach and challenge him on this the response will most likely be that you are already getting a break in price because he thought you were hauling away the debris. BUT... for a little more he can take care of that for you. See how he just padded his bill and made it your fault? Working in the construction trades for over 30 years it was always assumed when we went on a job that we were responsible for removing any trash or debris from our work, including any packaging from products brought on site like cardboard boxes, shipping crates, and so on unless the GC had made arrangements to accept all. As an first year apprentice it was one of my duties to clean up the worksite at the end of each day.

Did you hire this 'contractor' or the realtor? If you had nothing to do with selecting or hiring this person/company you have no obligation (as I see it) to do anything. If the Realtor hired them (to help you out) then they should have arranged for removing the debris if the contractor was not going to clean up his own mess.
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Offline rizzoa13

  • Posts: 529
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2017, 05:51 AM »
If you are getting a bottom dollar price from a bottom dollar contractor then yes, the dumpster is going to be on you. There's a reason your getting a low price, your getting low service.

You can also think about it like this. If you were building a home the general contractor would be responsible for having a dumpster or dump trailer on site and the subs would be responsible for any mess they make getting into that dumpster. Your kind of playing the role of GC when you hire someone cheap, because you aren't paying to have a GC on site who takes care of these things with his 15-30% markup.

Now I'd say your responsibility stops at getting a dumpster on site and the contractor needs to fill it and keep the place broom swept throughout the work.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4835
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 07:59 AM »
Read the estimate (I doubt you actually got a contract). If the dumpster is not listed on the estimate the dumpster cost is on you. Only items included in the cost are what are listed on the estimate or in the contract.

This is why I list what's included in the cost, never what is not included.

Tom

Offline Brice Burrell

  • Posts: 7170
  • Remodeling Contractor
    • The Green and Dark Blue blog
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 08:06 AM »
Trash removal is the default for the professional contractor.  The low bid guys you never know, and as Tom said you'll need to look at the estimate/contract.  It's stuff like this that often makes the low bid to end up not really being such a good deal in the end.
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Offline Holzhacker

  • Posts: 859
    • www.aic-chicago.com
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 09:05 AM »
Normally a contractor would include debris removal as part of the gig. Pretty standard around here especially for smaller jobs. A big job then it would be itemized out given that multiple trades would probably be filling the dumpster.
If you are a contractor working for clients you get rid of the garbage and make sure the place is pretty clean at the end of the job. You rely on referrals. Leaving the place a garbage pit is a great way to lose any potential referrals from that client.
Since you hired the agents low ball guy, who knows. He doesn't care about you and probably isn't expecting any referrals from you. He just cares about what the agent thinks.
"The Code is not a ceiling to reach but a floor to work up from"

Offline antss

  • Posts: 851
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 09:24 AM »
From a pure cost perspective the client pays regardless.

If the contractor hires the dumpster he pays the carting co. and adds it to his bill (with markup).  Which you then pay.  If you hire the dumpster, you pay the carting co. directly saving the markup.

Offline geoffshep

  • Posts: 129
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 10:03 AM »
I guess it depends on the job, and the quote.  We had some plastering done recently and the chap left a small bag of rubbish, and a minimal amount of left over plaster, which he asked us to get rid of.  I was surprised initially, but he explained that for us it would be household waste, and free to dispose of at the tip, for him it would be commercial waste at a cost.  It seemed very simple and I was happy to do it.  As said, the customer pays in the end however it is done.

Offline Twoodman66

  • Posts: 56
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 12:29 PM »
We make it very clear as to what is expected of the debris removal. Sometimes the owner prefers to save a few bucks and put it out for local pickup. Here nor there certainly it should have been discussed. This is an age old practice of some contractors omitting certain line items to keep the original quote down. Most homeowners unfortunately miss some of the fine details in the proposal/contract. I can tell you in our area there is no way our garbage service will pick up anything weighing more than 40Lbs . and certainly nothing that's not bagged

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 822
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 01:20 PM »
"The guy" your realtor uses represents a conflict of interest.  That means this guy's priority is getting in and out and finishing the job quickly.  Not necessarily at the lowest cost, not necessarily the best job, but nothing so terrible that it would hold up a sale.  know that up front.  And the realtor uses him because he's cheap, more profit for him when he flips.  That doesn't mean he will come cheap to you.  But that explains why it's not an all inclusive service.  As mentioned above, you may find other annoying aspects of the job, which the contractor doesn't have to be concerned about on flips, because nobody lives in the house - like cleaning up after himself daily because you have live and eat in that construction zone. 

The dumpster is the MO the realtor uses for larger jobs, contractor doesn't need to be concerned with it, he just shows up with his tools and materials and gets to work.  If your job is pretty large, go with the dumpster.  If you have time and it's a smaller job, there are other options, but you'll have to get your hands dirty.  Waste Management sells those green "dumpsters" that will hold a few cubic yards of debris.  When it's full, just call them and they cart it away.  I think they are less than $50.  Many towns will accept bulk trash, but they will have strict rules you have to follow (bagged, no nails, limits on # of bags or weight).  I've dropped off doors, toilets and other misc construction debris at my township recycling center, but these were smaller jobs where 1-2 trips were needed.  I wouldn't want to be driving back and forth all day.    The messy stuff I didn't want in my car I would bag and put in the weekly trash a little at a time.  But these are small contained jobs where a dumpster would be a waste (no pun intended).
-Raj

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 4835
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2017, 01:35 PM »
Ask the realtor if you can use a dumpster at one of his jobs....

Tom

Offline antss

  • Posts: 851
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 02:38 PM »
The dumpster bags are $20-$30 to the retailer you buy it from.

You then pay WM to pick up the bag and that is generally $150-$200 any time I've used one.  It's all weight dependent and to some extent what's it's made of. Mine have always been tile work, so heavy.  A bag full of insulation and 2x4s is gonna cost a lot less.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 822
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2017, 03:46 PM »
The dumpster bags are $20-$30 to the retailer you buy it from.

You then pay WM to pick up the bag and that is generally $150-$200 any time I've used one.  It's all weight dependent and to some extent what's it's made of. Mine have always been tile work, so heavy.  A bag full of insulation and 2x4s is gonna cost a lot less.

Thanks for that!  I thought the whole idea when they introduced it years ago was you pay up front when you buy the bag and schedule the pick up when you want (no more fees).  At those prices, I think I'd stretch a little more to get rid of it myself or get a 10 yard dumpster and be done with it.  It's a whole lot easier heaving the debris over a steel wall vs. arranging it inside a soft sided bag to make the best use of the limited space. 
-Raj

Offline Don T

  • Posts: 1682
  • Phoenix, Az
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2017, 09:55 PM »
Thanks guys. My realtor is a flipper also and he is also the biggest pain in the arse I have ever met. He qives a price and we give home the go ahead then a day or two later he says oh that didn't include paint or whatever the case may be. I will be glade when this is all over and I will not have to deal with him any longer.
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Offline deepcreek

  • Posts: 580
    • TimberFire Studio
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2017, 11:31 PM »
Thanks guys. My realtor is a flipper also and he is also the biggest pain in the arse I have ever met. He qives a price and we give home the go ahead then a day or two later he says oh that didn't include paint or whatever the case may be. I will be glade when this is all over and I will not have to deal with him any longer.

Unless he's exceptionally good at his job (or a relative), why not choose a different realtor?
Joe Adams
TimberFire Studio
Houston, Texas

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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 260
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2017, 05:17 AM »
Sounds like your realtor read "The Art of The Deal" or how to rip off your client, or contractor, as the case may be.
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Offline Don T

  • Posts: 1682
  • Phoenix, Az
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2017, 10:18 AM »
That is my feeling also. Snake in the grass.
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Offline pettyconstruction

  • Posts: 324
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2017, 12:02 PM »
I make all of my subs clean up after themselves,at the minimum,bag it and take it out to the dumpster.
Each Friday we stop a bit early and clean the job site. The HO can then come by a clean project on the weekend and we start fresh on Monday.
If everyone does this, the job is not a PITA to keep clean.

Also a clean job is a safe job(safer)
Charlie


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Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 260
Re: I have a question about debris from a job you do?
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2017, 04:32 PM »
I make all of my subs clean up after themselves,at the minimum,bag it and take it out to the dumpster.
Each Friday we stop a bit early and clean the job site. The HO can then come by a clean project on the weekend and we start fresh on Monday.
If everyone does this, the job is not a PITA to keep clean.

Also a clean job is a safe job(safer)
Charlie

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Well said. And just think if a fire started and your garbage was piled up or laying around and it was determined that it contributed to or was the cause of the fire. Might change your perspective on keeping a clean jobsite. Only jobs I didn't
have to clean up after myself was when the CM or GC had made the arrangement with all the subs to take care of it.
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?