Author Topic: Locksport / Lock Pick Board  (Read 2211 times)

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Offline GoingMyWay

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Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« on: April 14, 2019, 05:11 PM »
This post might be a bit out of the scope of the forum, though I did have to drill a hole and mortise for the deadbolt.  I also know there are some members who are actual locksmiths.

I recently got into the hobby of locksport.  I've been interested in lock picking since I was a child, but I never had a real set of picks nor was I able to actually pick a lock open.

I bought a cheap set of picks off Amazon along with a clear practice padlock.  The clear padlock was super easy to pick, which is a good thing because it's very reinforcing getting that feeling of the lock popping open knowing that it is in fact possible.

I built this simple pick board using a scrap of plywood and a 2x8.  This was the first time I've ever drilled a hole for a lock and also the first time I chiseled for a lock.  It was a good learning exercise in that regard also.





I bought 3 deadbolt locks off the shelf from Home Depot: Defiant, Kwikset, and Schlage (listed in order of my perceived security/quality).





The Kwikset lock was pretty easy to open. Even the Schlage was pretty easy to open.  I got my wife into it too and she was also able to pick the Kwikset and the Schlage. The HUGE surprise was that the cheapest lock, the Defiant could not be picked. I suspected that there might be security pins, but I kinda doubted that considering the lock was less than $10. I was at Home Depot today and confirmed that it does in fact have security pins (I didn't even look at the packaging before I threw it out when I got the lock)!  I can't believe it, I'm really surprised that the < $10 deadbolt is more secure than the $30 Schlage!!



This is quite an interesting hobby and has really shown me how secure or unsecure certain locks are.  I guess most burglars come in via the quickest means, which is probably a window or just kick the door in.  I'm a little disappointed in Schlage, especially considering it was so much more than the Kwikset and Defiant.  I think if you want a real upgrade in security you have to buy something like a Medeco lock, but I believe they're quite expensive especially if you're talking about outfitting a whole house.

Next I'm planning on rekeying a Kwikset deadbolt to match an existing key for my mom's house.
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Offline Sparktrician

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2019, 05:46 PM »
If you'd like a real challenge, try a Medeco lock.   [scared]
- Willy -

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Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2019, 06:18 PM »
Well considering we can't pick the Defiant lock, I don't think we stand a chance against a Medeco!
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Offline Cheese

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2019, 06:42 PM »
Well that’s certainly interesting, who’d have thunk.  [smile]  I put all Schlage on the house.  [crying] [crying]

I got into my lock picking phase about 45 years ago. Long before the internet so lock picking tools could only be purchased locally by professional lock smiths. You needed a license and the local police department authorized your purchase.  Needless to say...I made my own.

You’re right, it is pretty fun to do especially when the tension tool moves just a little bit more and then suddenly you’re “in”.

Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2019, 08:56 PM »
Maybe older Schlage locks were more pick resistant??

It is kinda surprising that anybody can buy lock picking tools online that easily, though if you're good, you could probably pick a lock with just a bobby pin or a paperclip.

From my research, the amount of tension you apply really is the secret.

I bought a No 3 Master Padlock that's pretty much easier to pick than the clear training padlock.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 01:35 AM »
I’m not so sure, Schlage hasn’t changed their lock design in years.

I forgot to add that way back when, if you were apprehended with lock picking tools in your possession, either on your person, in your car or even in your house, you became a suspect and were immediately arrested.

I honestly feel, having lived through that age, that you’d receive a lesser sentence for carrying a loaded hand gun than for carrying lock picking tools.

Times have indeed changed. What was once a felony is now a hobby? 

It is pretty cool though... [big grin]

Offline six-point socket II

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 02:58 AM »
Cool!

Kind regards,
Oliver
Kind regards,
Oliver

Offline DashZero

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 05:10 AM »
My father bought me a set when I was about 15 he knew i was interested in locks as he had a business that used high security locks.  Medeco mostly, and some Abloy, and even a Mosler.

After a few months of practice I was able to open the Medeco.  Never had the right pick for tubular abloy.  And never had a stethoscope for the Mosler.

Offline David

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 02:40 PM »
I bought a mailbox recently and installed it and then went to every place in town that I could to find someone to copy the keys (Medeco), and no one was able to copy them, either. I wonder if that's related.

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Offline ChuckM

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 02:48 PM »
I made a little gadget out of scrap to deal with lock bumping or lock picking (too?)/intrusion while someone is home: https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/408976

« Last Edit: April 15, 2019, 02:52 PM by ChuckM »

Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 05:51 PM »
I’m not so sure, Schlage hasn’t changed their lock design in years.

I forgot to add that way back when, if you were apprehended with lock picking tools in your possession, either on your person, in your car or even in your house, you became a suspect and were immediately arrested.

I honestly feel, having lived through that age, that you’d receive a lesser sentence for carrying a loaded hand gun than for carrying lock picking tools.

Times have indeed changed. What was once a felony is now a hobby? 

It is pretty cool though... [big grin]

Maybe Schlage still has an overall more robust build, just not very pick resistant?  I was watching one of my favorite TV shows last week, LivePD and someone on the show mentioned they had a Schlage Primus lock.  I had never heard of that so I googled it and found out it's their high security lock that's supposed to be pick resistant and hard to duplicate the key (maybe similar to Medeco, but probably cheaper).

Yup the laws can be pretty weird.  Some laws are hardly ever enforced unless an actual crime is being committed though.

My father bought me a set when I was about 15 he knew i was interested in locks as he had a business that used high security locks.  Medeco mostly, and some Abloy, and even a Mosler.

After a few months of practice I was able to open the Medeco.  Never had the right pick for tubular abloy.  And never had a stethoscope for the Mosler.

Abloy!  That was the other brand of high security locks that I couldn't think of.  I've been watching a lot of lock picking YouTube videos and they all make it look so easy!  I don't know that I'll ever advance enough to be able to pick a "hard" lock, but I am still very excited and proud of myself for being able to pick a Kwikset and Schlage.  Granted I'm not single pin picking so it's pretty much just unsophisticated picking techniques like zipping and raking that pretty much anybody can do.

I bought a mailbox recently and installed it and then went to every place in town that I could to find someone to copy the keys (Medeco), and no one was able to copy them, either. I wonder if that's related.



Did you go to an actual locksmith to try to get a copy made?  Was it that they were physically unable to make a copy or legally/unethically unable to make a copy without say legal proof that you bought the mailbox and it is in fact yours?

I made a little gadget out of scrap to deal with lock bumping or lock picking (too?)/intrusion while someone is home: https://www.lumberjocks.com/projects/408976



That's pretty nifty.  I actually didn't believe that blocking the deadbolt knob would prevent entry - I just went and tested it out with both and key and picking to double check.  Sure enough, the knob does in fact have to be able to turn in order to unlock.  I watched a YouTube video that showed how you can make a "pick proof" lock (I think you rekeyed with some specific security pins), but it also disabled the cylinder so that your actual key wouldn't work either.  The good thing was that you would know that someone had tried to pick the lock however, the downside would be if you keyed all your locks in this manner, then you could potentially be locked out of your own house if all the locks were picked.
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Offline David

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2019, 07:39 PM »
I tried three actual locksmiths and none of them carried the blank.
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Offline Svar

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2019, 07:54 PM »
I wonder if selling locks that can be picked or bumped is a conscious decision by manufacturers, to allow emergency access with various degrees of complexity.
Pick proof design is not that complicated and does not cost that much more. Then why not make all of them this way?

Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2019, 07:59 PM »
I tried three actual locksmiths and none of them carried the blank.

Wow.  I guess your area must not be a big market for Medeco locks, though I have no idea how many locksmiths around here could make a Medeco key.

I wonder if selling locks that can be picked or bumped is a conscious decision by manufacturers, to allow emergency access with various degrees of complexity.
Pick proof design is not that complicated and does not cost that much more. Then why not make all of them this way?


I kinda don't think it's for emergency access, but it is a good question why don't they make locks more secure if the increased cost is negligible.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2019, 08:17 PM »
The Medeco key I have has “DO NOT DUPLICATE” on the reverse side.

After watching that lock bumping video, I’m going to investigate changing out the Schlages for Primus.

Offline deepcreek

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #15 on: April 16, 2019, 12:20 AM »
Anyone care to take a crack at picking this lock?

The dimples are on both sides of the key as well as both edges.

The cylinder drove a multi-point locking system in the door.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 12:22 AM by deepcreek »
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Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2019, 12:51 PM »
Anyone care to take a crack at picking this lock?

The dimples are on both sides of the key as well as both edges.

The cylinder drove a multi-point locking system in the door.

The LockPickingLawyer is my favorite. He not only makes it look so easy, but explains evreything in his gutting videos.

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCm9K6rby98W8JigLoZOh6FQ/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1


Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2019, 01:28 PM »
He is good.  I was surprised to learn he's from Washington, DC and is really a lawyer.  I think I first learned about him when I read this article about how he was able to easily get into a Marriott hotel room: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6560311/Man-reveals-break-security-card-activated-Marriott-hotel-room-privacy-card.html.

He does make it look too easy.  I've also been watching a lot of BosnianBill: http://www.youtube.com/user/bosnianbill and the HelpfulLockPicker: http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCloseNEb6epWL36Ap_zZmow.

I wonder how these guys learned so much about all these different locks!!
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Offline ChuckM

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2019, 01:30 PM »
I did not know in the hands of a seasoned lock picker, locks are so useless!

I have one of Abloy padlock like this (mine is about 20 years old, the keys look similar): https://sg.carousell.com/p/abloy-padlock-pl241-98798411/

Is it any good at all?

Offline Rick Christopherson

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2019, 01:33 PM »
There is "virtually" no such thing as a pick-proof lock. However, I think the Bowley lock is still one of the few that remains pick-proof. Here is an updated video I was just watching a few minutes ago discussing the Bowley.


Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2019, 01:41 PM »
I heard that the Abloy Protec2 deadbolt has yet to be picked.  There don't seem to be that many videos of Abloy locks being picked in general.  The videos that do show picking seem to all be older versions of the locks that had some flaws or weaknesses that could be exploited.

Edit: I didn't realize that YouTuber huxleypig69 picked the Abloy Protec2.  I just watched the video last night, but I wasn't paying attention and thought he had picked an older Abloy.  Some people have claimed that the video is fake, but I don't know.  I presume it's real.

« Last Edit: April 16, 2019, 02:12 PM by GoingMyWay »
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Offline GoingMyWay

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2019, 03:28 PM »
I somehow managed to Single Pin Pick the Defiant lock last week.  I had watched a YouTube video on how to pick security pins and I learned that it's just a matter of being patient and persistent and keep pushing on each pin to see if it will keep moving up.  I was so surprised when I heard the "click" and the cylinder turned.  I tried again, but I haven't been able to pick it another time.  The good news is that I've done it once before so it must be possible to do again.

I bought this nifty little Weiser re-keying kit from Amazon for $77 so I could rekey the new deadbolt to replace my mom's.



I wanted to buy a bigger kit that could also work with Schlage locks, but those were $100-200 more, didn't necessarily include all of the tools, and I honestly really have no need for such a big kit.

The top of the keyway was worn out from being used for 25+ years.  I know it's super basic and simple, but I had so much fun decoding the key and then repinning the lock to match her lock.  It was fast too.










I took out the OEM pins and replaced with the matching pins from the re-keying kit.  I later inserted the correct pins to actually match her existing key.

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Offline Gregor

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Re: Locksport / Lock Pick Board
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2019, 08:18 AM »
Many (if not most) locks are a joke these days, simply because they can be bumped: