Author Topic: REDUX a catching Avatar!  (Read 4431 times)

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Offline Peter Halle

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Re: REDUX a catching Avatar!
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2016, 07:02 PM »
@Edward A Reno III,

Do I feel that the content is not what it once was?  Yes,

Do I think that the tone of the FOG has something to do with that?  Yes.  Obviously I feel that the tone makes especially newer members less likely to take the plunge to post for the first time, but it also grates at those who have posted many times causing the "Why do I bother?" syndrome.  I bet there are a bunch of lurkers out there who once were prolific nodding their heads right now.

But also driving my opinion about the content not being what it once was is that Festool offers especially here a limited assortment of tools and in the early days there was a ton of knowledge to share as people were learning their tools and got excited about being the first to share something previously unwritten.  There will be a natural plateau in the knowledge that can be shared without the introduction of more tools and more importantly in my mind the display of the usage of the tools which in turn will hopefully spur others to feel comfortable to do the same.

An example of what I am talking about.  Within the last two months I was contacted by a Festool dealer about possibly doing videos about several of the mainstream Festool products.  I listened to the idea and explained that I was a moderator here (he had no idea what the FOG was) and that in order to do the videos for payment I would have to resign my position here.  I told him that I would think on it and call him back.  I thought.  I called back.  I said I wasn't interested because the tools had hundreds of videos out there - including Festool produced ones - and I would be taking their money for nothing.  I did offer some suggestions on how they could accomplish the same but wrap it around a building a workshop theme.  I recognized the plateau but offered a way to go beyond that in a more creative way.

I hope that this helps explain.

Peter
« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 07:18 PM by Peter Halle »
Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: REDUX a catching Avatar!
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2016, 07:16 PM »
@bobfog,

Thank you for posting your thoughts and feelings.

As I wrote I believe that there are other issues here beyond us as members.  I also believe that this thread has already been read and we will see. 

I can honestly tell you that this is a very unmoderated forum when it comes to the deletion of posts.  Unfortunately you stepped on one issue that has regularly been enforced.

Peter

Disclaimer:  I have been involved with the development of some TSO Products.  I have offered thoughts and ideas freely.  I am not paid but I may receive products during the development process or afterwards.

Offline Scott Burt

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Re: REDUX a catching Avatar!
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2016, 08:18 PM »
Forums implode when the sense of entitlement becomes too strong. Those who haven't read Lord of the Flies should.

No forum is an island.

Offline mikeomalley

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Re: REDUX a catching Avatar!
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2016, 08:39 PM »
Hit the nail on the head there Scott.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: REDUX a catching Avatar!
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2016, 02:30 AM »
I want to thank the OP and others who have contributed to this thread. I think it's been a long time coming. Garry, Peter you both did a excellent job in describing what has been going on.

Here are my 2 pence worth. [unsure]

What I find that seems to be happening more and more is strangers ( newbies) and as their first post, start ragging on Festool for one reason or another. Then that's it, they go back off to obscurity.

I made a comment about that once and Garry M PM'd me and rightly so a talked to me about my comment. He mentioned that the forum has gone south and my comment wasn't really helping matters any ( my words not his but the jist of what he told me)

He was right. There is one now who came. Out of no where proudly stating his qualifications as a wood worker but no real focus to his post, For whatever reason he chose to come here. He does not have in my mind any intent other then starting a mess.

I chose to ignore his post and go on. I suggest others do that to both to him and future ones like him.

As far as the rude comments, yes I am seeing more and more of them. I had folks pick the corn out of the shirt on some of my post.  I guess some folks have egos that like to be fed and want the world to know what woodworking geniuses they are

I chose not to get into a flame war, let them have their say, not respond to them and go on. Make them feel they got the last word and they can go and high 5 each other and disappear into thin air until they get bored again and return.

I've learned not to feed the trolls. They will go get their egos fed somewhere else eventually.

We need to keep our sense of community here. I have developed relationships/ friendships with folks here some I met at a end users class others I've emailed and asked questions when I needed help and we email each other quite frequently. [smile] others I met at woodworking shows and at my BBQ .

Some I jokingly harass all in fun as a little banter is a good thing right Kev?

The bottom line is its really our forum. It's up to us to police it. I have seen that starting to happen when members tell others to keep it civil.

I have noticed that we are getting less and less project photos.

 I don't post mine, because well frankly, I haven't built anything in the last few years that is worth posting here. Plus you guys make some beautiful projects, mine are not up to that level

Being in the UK temporarily for a few years I don't build anything other then craft type projects which are very basic. I'm in a rental and I enjoy working on my house and building things like closet organisers, remodelling  rooms etc. I don't do that here.

I'm also not that cleaver to come up with jigs and creative techniques to do things.

I do see more and more questions about what tools I need for this project and I don't have any festools yet but if I did what would I need to.......

I also noticed a lot less of folks asking advice on how to do something .

Maybe we should have a noob page where the noobs can come ask those sort of questions . They don't seem to want to use the search button.

Most of the same questions have been asked and answered repeatedly. Even a FAQ page for reference .

That could be what causes most of the pros experienced wood workers to go on to other sites.

There has also been less and less dealer involvement giving advice, Tom B would post regularly here helping with how to do this or that and with part numbers etc, same with Bob.

Now the only dealer involvement I see regularly is hey we having a special on this or that WP OTT is ready for preorder etc etc.

As been pointed out even festool seemed to have dropped the ball, when people need help they have been noticeably silent. Phil B does help when he can, but he is on the road quite a bit and has very little time.

So IMO we need to police this place ourselves.

Sorry for the long rant. I do get rather long winded
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 02:55 AM by jobsworth »
Loving the Calif sun....

Offline Kev

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Re: REDUX a catching Avatar!
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2016, 02:57 AM »
Some I jokingly harass all in fun as a little banter is a good thing right Kev?

 [eek] I'm crushed and I'll never be the same [crying]

Offline Untidy Shop

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Re: REDUX a catching Avatar!
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2016, 04:02 AM »
I do not regret starting this Thread and thanks again to Peter and all who have contributed to date. I agree with much of what most have posted and can add little  to what I wrote  in Reply # 10. However I want to say a little more about projects and discuss international membership.

Projects -
I enjoy posting projects on the FOG. I certainly do not publish them all, far from it. But if I think a project might help others, or I want some constructive feedback, or just wish to record it,  I will start documenting it during the construction process.

I am not the most gifted publisher of projects, but I think the FOG would be greatly enriched if more Projects reflecting a cross range of acceptable ability were published and respectfully discussed. At times these project threads can generate discussion regarding materials and methods beyond the project itself. I encourage more members to post their projects and comment on others.

International Membership -.
This has been referred to several times in the Thread to date.

Cultural nuances can sometimes be unintentionally misinterpreted or misunderstood. For example if I call @Kev a "silly old bu---r" , I am not questioning his sexual orientation. He would smile and laugh, but I doubt I should ever say that to someone from NA.  Conversely the subject referered to by @bobfog is one met with dismay if not outrage by many living in Australia and Europe. I am not debating it here - it's just how it is for many outside the US.

So yes, this international membership does create some extra workload for our moderators. BUT it also enriches the FOG by providing excellent opportunities for cultural understanding, tolerance and learning of how certain processes and methods can differ country to country; or just having a chat with someone as I did with @slalom the other day about Coyotes, Wolves, Dogs and Dingos.  [smile]

The FOG is a significant element in my growth as a woodworker. I want it to prosper. As I said in #10, not be 'cheesy', but have some respectfull backbone.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2016, 08:10 AM by Untidy Shop »
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Offline mrB

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Re: REDUX a catching Avatar!
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2016, 08:04 AM »
As a member of many forms over the years, photography, tool, guitar, computer etc 
I  think the FOG is still in pretty great shape! It's probably the second friendliest forum I've ever used. .

I honestly forget how long I have been lurking/posting here... But yes I have noticed a slight increase in aggressive and negative posts. Often by new members who soon. disappear again.

As time moves on the FOG grows,, membership grows, dynamics change, people leave, negativity creeps in and some of the cozy coffee morning feeling is lost...

But this is still a top notch forum - thanks to  all its contributing members for that.
there's nothing like the right tool for the job