Author Topic: The Big Green Egg  (Read 13354 times)

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Offline Paul G

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #120 on: July 20, 2017, 10:20 AM »
Ok, I will open up another can of worms (no not in the food ;)) but regarding sous vide and meats - if all you are doing after the sous vide (Yes I know suos vide makes the meats super, super tender) is very quickly searing the meats on high temps   can't that be done - just as effectively taste wise on a gas grill? Yes I know, gas may only get to 600-700 degrees or so rather than the 900+ from ceramic, but that means the difference in searing time is maybe a minute or so and when only searing for such a short time how can the benefits of  the smoky flavor be imparted on the food? 
 And wouldn't a good and properly reverse seared steak be more flavorful, not necessarily more tender, but more flavorful, than one cooked with sous vide?

I have yet to try sous vide but I've read of many finishing methods, be it hot fry pan, broiler, grill of choice and even blow torch
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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #121 on: July 20, 2017, 10:25 AM »
Ok, I will open up another can of worms (no not in the food ;)) but regarding sous vide and meats - if all you are doing after the sous vide (Yes I know suos vide makes the meats super, super tender) is very quickly searing the meats on high temps   can't that be done - just as effectively taste wise on a gas grill? Yes I know, gas may only get to 600-700 degrees or so rather than the 900+ from ceramic, but that means the difference in searing time is maybe a minute or so and when only searing for such a short time how can the benefits of  the smoky flavor be imparted on the food? 
 And wouldn't a good and properly reverse seared steak be more flavorful, not necessarily more tender, but more flavorful, than one cooked with sous vide?

I have yet to try sous vide but I've read of many finishing methods, be it hot fry pan, broiler, grill of choice and even blow torch

 Yep, but I'm thinking it will be very tender, but simply not as flavorful as a reverse sear steak. Other cuts of meat are probably different.
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Offline Paul G

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #122 on: July 20, 2017, 10:59 AM »
Yep, but I'm thinking it will be very tender, but simply not as flavorful as a reverse sear steak. Other cuts of meat are probably different.
From my understanding, sous vide followed by a blow torch, broiler, etc is an example of reverse sear (slow low heat to cook the inside followed by really high heat to sear the outside) so I'm not sure what method you're referring to exactly
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Offline miclee15

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #123 on: July 20, 2017, 11:01 AM »
Ok, I will open up another can of worms (no not in the food ;)) but regarding sous vide and meats - if all you are doing after the sous vide (Yes I know suos vide makes the meats super, super tender) is very quickly searing the meats on high temps   can't that be done - just as effectively taste wise on a gas grill? Yes I know, gas may only get to 600-700 degrees or so rather than the 900+ from ceramic, but that means the difference in searing time is maybe a minute or so and when only searing for such a short time how can the benefits of  the smoky flavor be imparted on the food? 
 And wouldn't a good and properly reverse seared steak be more flavorful, not necessarily more tender, but more flavorful, than one cooked with sous vide?

IMHO, there is no difference if finishing on a charcoal grill after Sous Vide. The flavor is from the sear (unless you are doing a slow smoke eg real bbg not grilling). Once the steak gets on the hot grill there is plenty of smoke and I get plenty of flavor.   I agree there is a difference when using a blow torch or pan verse charcoal.    Some people actually sear first, then sous vide for a bit more, but the jury is out which is better.   

If you're only cooking a thin steak the benefits are marginal, but I enjoy a really thick cut. I'll have the butcher cut a 1 1/2" - 2".  I like med rare and to cook the center to that temp w/o over cooking the outside is next to impossible with just a grill.



I have yet to try sous vide but I've read of many finishing methods, be it hot fry pan, broiler, grill of choice and even blow torch

Offline tjbnwi

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #124 on: July 20, 2017, 11:02 AM »
Is dinner ready yet??????

Gezzzzzzz....

Tom

Offline Cheese

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #125 on: July 20, 2017, 11:06 AM »

From my understanding, sous vide followed by a blow torch, broiler, etc is an example of reverse sear (slow low heat to cook the inside followed by really high heat to sear the outside) so I'm not sure what method you're referring to exactly


Sous vide is done in a water bath with only the final sear being exposed to smoke. I believe a reverse sear steak is exposed to smoke throughout the cooking process.

Offline Paul G

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #126 on: July 20, 2017, 11:23 AM »

From my understanding, sous vide followed by a blow torch, broiler, etc is an example of reverse sear (slow low heat to cook the inside followed by really high heat to sear the outside) so I'm not sure what method you're referring to exactly


Sous vide is done in a water bath with only the final sear being exposed to smoke. I believe a reverse sear steak is exposed to smoke throughout the cooking process.

https://www.kamadoguru.com/topic/24038-sous-vide-reverse-sear-ribeye/
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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #127 on: July 20, 2017, 11:30 AM »
Yep, but I'm thinking it will be very tender, but simply not as flavorful as a reverse sear steak. Other cuts of meat are probably different.
From my understanding, sous vide followed by a blow torch, broiler, etc is an example of reverse sear (slow low heat to cook the inside followed by really high heat to sear the outside) so I'm not sure what method you're referring to exactly

 Ok, I was just questioning the fact that sous vide no doubt makes the steaks (and I am referring here only to steaks) extremely tender. Then it is followed by a quick sear by whatever method at hand. If seared by a ceramic or smoker grill - both at high temps since it's only on for a minute or two, why would there be any difference in taste and secondly, wouldn't a traditional reverse sear method on a ceramic or smoker grill be more flavorful, since the smoky flavor has now permeated the steak?
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Offline Paul G

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #128 on: July 20, 2017, 11:41 AM »
Yep, but I'm thinking it will be very tender, but simply not as flavorful as a reverse sear steak. Other cuts of meat are probably different.
From my understanding, sous vide followed by a blow torch, broiler, etc is an example of reverse sear (slow low heat to cook the inside followed by really high heat to sear the outside) so I'm not sure what method you're referring to exactly

 Ok, I was just questioning the fact that sous vide no doubt makes the steaks (and I am referring here only to steaks) extremely tender. Then it is followed by a quick sear by whatever method at hand. If seared by a ceramic or smoker grill - both at high temps since it's only on for a minute or two, why would there be any difference in taste and secondly, wouldn't a traditional reverse sear method on a ceramic or smoker grill be more flavorful, since the smoky flavor has now permeated the steak?

Since I haven't yet done sous vide I can't compare it to anything, but I agree with your logic that a slow smoked piece of meat should taste different. I've read of people adding liquid smoke into the souv vide bag as well to impart those flavors if desired. Also have read of some folks smoking a bit after sous vide. Hopefully some of the sous vide aficionados here will chime in from their experience.
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Offline miclee15

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #129 on: July 20, 2017, 12:50 PM »
There is a very big difference on how smoke "gets into the meat".   Smoking meats or BBQ is typically done at temp 200-250 degs.   This method you can get a very deep smoke taste and it does penetrate deeper (debatable-but I think it does) and allows you to have the meat sit in the smoke longer before the outer part of the meat is cooked.     Grilling is at temps higher than that (250) and most BBQ'er (not grillers) will agree that smoke doesn't penetrate at temps higher temps and as the meat cooks the less it accepts.  Also, if you burnt wood at higher temps you'll get a off taste.  Wood smoke needs to smolder not burn to avoid a bitter taste.  So the reality is your only imparting smoke to the outside when you grill.

I use both methods, and if you smoke a large steak (less then 250 deg, finish high sear), agree a deeper smoke flavor.
If you are going to Grill, minimal difference and having the outer layer of the steak over cooked is more undesirable for me then a touch more smoke.  Everyone has their likes so there is no right answer, but I have converted some die hard BBQ's and Grillers that Sous Vide for steak is the way to go.

Offline mark60

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #130 on: July 20, 2017, 04:33 PM »
Unless you're 250 degrees or less you're not smoking, you're grilling or cooking and over 250 you won't really get any smoke flavor in your meat even cooked over an all wood fire.

I don't know for sure that sous vide makes steaks any more tender than any other methods unless you're in the sous vide for a long time, with steaks mine are only in the water bath for a couple hours. The benefit is that you cook them perfectly from edge to edge. I have two Anova sous vide units, the second one is useful when we have company and they like their steak somewhere past 132 degrees which is what I usually cook ours to. It's also excellent for lamb chops, those were always tricky for me to get right.

Food is ready to eat right out of the water bath but it isn't very presentable looking. The sear makes it look like we expect it to look and creates that great crust on a steak that's ready for the pat of seasoned butter. It's a little weird the first time or two but directly on red hot coals actually works and you somehow don't get a bunch of ash on your meat. A screaming hot cast iron frying pan works great too and gives a little different kind of crust.

Sorry Bob, the komado is a given but you'll have to add a sous vide too. Check out Anova and I'm sure they'll have 50 bucks off soon, they do it often. You use your own container and it can be as simple as a stockpot or as elaborate as you like. A smallish cooler works great because it helps keep the water hot on long cooks.

Online Peter Halle

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #131 on: July 20, 2017, 04:40 PM »
As a happy griller - see my posts above - and a sous vide fan (about 2.5 years) I can tell you that most steaks in my house are cooked sous vide.  Then dried off and seared by one of the following methods:

1.  Propane torch
2.  Cast iron pan
3.  Charcoal chimney starter with lit charcoal and a tiny grate on top.  Sometimes the chimney starter is turned upside down and fewer coals used.  Great for finishing sous vide hamburgers.

If it is a steak that has fat along the edges I prefer 2 or 3 above.  For filets generally it will be choice 1 or 2.

Sous vide is just another method and it is fun, but sometimes ridiculous to see on the web the length of time things are cooked like it is a goal.  There is a done point and then a safe range and then there is the degrade the meat towards mush.

1 to 2 hrs at 129 to 135 will work for most steaks.  Slightly tougher steaks - 3 hrs.

But of course this is just another cooking technique and is not recognized by all Public Health Safety Departments in all areas or states.  For instance, in my state of Virginia, it is ok to have a street cart that will serve hotdogs with accompanying regulations.  You can boil or steam them.  Can't grill or griddle them.  Also you can not sous vide them.

Peter

EDIT:  Love my Anova!
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 04:42 PM by Peter Halle »
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline Bob Marino

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #132 on: July 20, 2017, 04:52 PM »
As a happy griller - see my posts above - and a sous vide fan (about 2.5 years) I can tell you that most steaks in my house are cooked sous vide.  Then dried off and seared by one of the following methods:

1.  Propane torch
2.  Cast iron pan
3.  Charcoal chimney starter with lit charcoal and a tiny grate on top.  Sometimes the chimney starter is turned upside down and fewer coals used.  Great for finishing sous vide hamburgers.

If it is a steak that has fat along the edges I prefer 2 or 3 above.  For filets generally it will be choice 1 or 2.

Sous vide is just another method and it is fun, but sometimes ridiculous to see on the web the length of time things are cooked like it is a goal.  There is a done point and then a safe range and then there is the degrade the meat towards mush.

1 to 2 hrs at 129 to 135 will work for most steaks.  Slightly tougher steaks - 3 hrs.

But of course this is just another cooking technique and is not recognized by all Public Health Safety Departments in all areas or states.  For instance, in my state of Virginia, it is ok to have a street cart that will serve hotdogs with accompanying regulations.  You can boil or steam them.  Can't grill or griddle them.  Also you can not sous vide them.

Peter

EDIT:  Love my Anova!

 Ok, Pete, I'll ask you the same question - is there a difference in taste between doing the SV process and a reverse sear?
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Online Peter Halle

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #133 on: July 20, 2017, 05:24 PM »
Sous vide gives predictability and because it is cooked at a lower temperature nothing can go wrong quickly.  Fudge factor built in.

For instance, you want to cook a beef tenderloin for the holidays.  You can cook it any way you want at a temperature of 225 to 250 for whatever time needed to get you to within 10 degrees of the finished meat temp.  If you are cooking over something that produces smoke then you will have an added taste.  If you cook in the oven then nope.  Reverse sear it and then you are caramelizing the exterior and any juices that have already developed versus being solid fat or non-existent if you seared first.

When you go sous vide the same thing is happening as cooking it a lower temp on another device, but GENERALLY SPEAKING because you are cooking at the desired finish temp of the roast and in the relative absence of oxygen with better conductivity or heat thru water around the bag versus air wafting by, you can have a more predictable result pending finishing it off with then a reverse sear.

Hope I didn't confuse.

To me a steak cooked sous vide then seared versus a steak cooked by conventional methods then reverse seared is similar in taste unless in the cooking process there has been an introduction of smoke.  When you get to the sear process you are working on browning at a very high heat.

Peter

« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 05:29 PM by Peter Halle »
Scraps to Smiles.  To be continued.....  Stay Tuned.

Offline Motown

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #134 on: July 20, 2017, 07:12 PM »
I love how I come to this website (which I love) and wind up spending lots of money on something green! LOL.

I am in the market for a Big Green Egg myself and following this thread with great interest.

Offline miclee15

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #135 on: July 20, 2017, 09:08 PM »
There is another add on for the egg which I can't live without.  A BBQ Guru.  It's a electronically control fan to regulate the air flow to the egg thus controlling tempeture very well.  If you look at pictures of BBQ competitions you will find a lot of people use them.   

Offline retfr8flyr

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #136 on: July 20, 2017, 10:36 PM »
I have an Anova, along with my Kamado Joe and my Akorns. I also have the BBQ Guru WiFi controller. I got the BBQ for my Akorn, as temp control on it is fairly difficult but my Big Joe is so stable I hardly use it for temp control on the BJ. I still use it for remotely monitoring the cook, as it's great for pit and food temp observation from the comfort of the house. As to the reverse seared steaks, I have also done them both ways, Sous Vide and Big Joe. I prefer to cook them on the BJ at 225° with a little Hickory wood for flavoring. I think they have much better flavor then the Sous Vide steaks. Now if you take a cheaper cut of meat, like so called London Broil, really just top round and cook it at 125° for about 10 hours and then do the sear procedure. You will end up with a piece of meat that is as tender as Rib Eye, with a great flavor. It's one of my favorite things to do with the Anova. Chicken also comes out great, Sous Vide, is just another way to cook many things.

Offline L.J

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #137 on: July 20, 2017, 11:18 PM »
I have a Lg BGE and an Anova immersion cooker and the two go together and am not surprised to see Festool owners are lovers of fine cooked meals using the best of the best !!!
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Offline Richard/RMW

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #138 on: July 21, 2017, 10:19 AM »
I also have the Anova, great design. Going beyond beef we use it for fish without any finishing routine and it makes the best juicy pork chops you have ever had. Chops can be finished on an egg or in a grill pan on the range.

As Peter mentioned the benefit to sous vide is cooking for extended time @ a temp that you cannot exceed.  You can definitely make mush out of meat if overzealous but timed properly you end up with evenly cooked & tender meat.

Searing is all about the flavor created by carmelization. I think someone else mentioned it but would emphasize that you must dry the meat before the sear or you just keep cooking it.

Highly recommend Meathead's book (Meathead) in the analog (hard cover) form. Lots of good info and food porn.

RMW

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Offline Cheese

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #139 on: July 22, 2017, 12:04 AM »
So, I meandered down to my favorite appliance dealer to pick up an air filter element for the fridge. While waiting for the goods to be processed, I also picked up this...the latest issue of the  Big Green Egg Life Style magazine.

Recipes:
Korean BBQ Short Rib Tacos
Grilled Lamb Kebabs
Smoked Chocolate Cheesecake Brownies
Spatchcock Chicken
Pizza and Beyond

There's also an article about Nobelhart & Schmutzig, a Berlin Michelin star restaurant, that incorporates a Big Green Egg for the preparation of their daily fare.

Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #140 on: July 22, 2017, 07:30 AM »
To add another choice to the confusion.  Bbq Guru, makers of the CyberQ and DigiQ temp controllers, have come out with their own kamado, The Monolith.  Looks like the wifi controller is built right in. 
EDIT:  The price varies depending on which controller you get:  Monolith


Offline Bob Marino

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #141 on: July 23, 2017, 09:25 AM »
 
 Slightly off topic, but definitely related - anyone join the AmazingRibs.com Pitmaster club?  AmazingRobs looks like an incredibly useful site for any aficionado. The main advantage of joining the club is to get rid of the zillion pop up ads all over the place though. Any members?
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Offline smirak

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #142 on: July 23, 2017, 01:47 PM »
 
 Slightly off topic, but definitely related - anyone join the AmazingRibs.com Pitmaster club?  AmazingRobs looks like an incredibly useful site for any aficionado. The main advantage of joining the club is to get rid of the zillion pop up ads all over the place though. Any members?

Bob,

I'm not a member, and don't know anyone that is. That said, I do use the site. I make homemade bacon using his recipe(s).

Offline Tinker

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #143 on: July 23, 2017, 03:25 PM »
After seeing comment from @smirak I HAD to go caveman and try the direct on the lump method to finish the sous vide steaks:

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)

Straight from the fridge to the fire for 6-7 minutes. Very complete char yet still medium rare throughout. Double Yum!

RMW

@Tinker  [dead horse]

I've been away from this conversation for a while.  Way back a couple of pages ago, @Richard/RMW I began to suspect you had not heeded my warnings to refrain from picture taking/displays.  I got to this message, i was already hardened to the possibilty you might be stubborn and not take heed.

Now, I have slobbered all over my keyboard.  I am awaiting delivery on a old "new" truck. all this talk makes me think I should cancel the order and just go out and get a half dozen of these eggs and komodo dragons and etc's and fight back.
A Very Hungry Tinker
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Offline Bob Marino

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #144 on: July 23, 2017, 10:06 PM »
Ok, guys. One of my neighbor's friends has a Memphis grill and long story short, I was invited there for dinner. He smoked the chicken on 200 for about an hour and raised the temp to 375. Put the thermometer in in the chicken to I think 165 and we were having dinner shortly after that. He used maple pellets. Ok, chicken was tasty and moist, BUT due to the maple pellets, well had a maple flavor of course. That was ok, but suppose you want to cook the chicken simply but traditionally - as I most often have done with lemon, salt, pepper, onion, garlic and rosemary. When cooked in a traditional oven and even on my gas grills, you taste the flavors of those herbs and spices. Wouldn't that (the wonderful flavorful taste of the herbs and spices) be lost on either when smoking with pellets or charcoal, or even simply bypassing smoking first and simply using the pellet  or kamado as a oven/grill?
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Offline egmiii

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #145 on: July 23, 2017, 10:31 PM »
Komodo Kamado sells extruded coconut shell charcoal. It's basically pure carbon with no flavor or smell. The pharmaceutical industry uses coconut carbon for purification I believe. Lots of Komodo Kamado owners use it when they bake breads or pies. Of course you can use it in a BGE, KJ, or equivalent, just not in a pellet smoker.

Offline Bob Marino

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #146 on: July 23, 2017, 10:45 PM »
Komodo Kamado sells extruded coconut shell charcoal. It's basically pure carbon with no flavor or smell. The pharmaceutical industry uses coconut carbon for purification I believe. Lots of Komodo Kamado owners use it when they bake breads or pies. Of course you can use it in a BGE, KJ, or equivalent, just not in a pellet smoker.

 Interesting, but I am betting that accounts for a tiny, tiny fraction of fuel for the komodos and smokers/grills. But I am not surprised that KK has it all figured out - they are truly the Rolls Royce of the komados.
 I'm just trying to get a handle on not getting the meats/fish/poultry not having their individual flavors get smothered by the smoke - whatever the wood - hickory, oak, apple, etc. etc.
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Offline Cheese

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #147 on: July 23, 2017, 11:34 PM »

I'm just trying to get a handle on not getting the meats/fish/poultry not having their individual flavors get smothered by the smoke - whatever the wood - hickory, oak, apple, etc.


That's the reason I prefer to use plum or apricot for smoking fish or seafood. And I'm only using a Weber Kettle not a real smoker. Beef & lamb standup well to hickory and mesquite, however, seafood and even pork...not so much. Even vegetables are an issue. I love grilled corn but if you add some wood...it can be too much. Mushrooms on the other hand turn out fine as does asparagus.
Pineapple also works well with strong woods. I have a grilled pineapple with orange sauce recipe over vanilla ice cream that is to die for.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 11:40 PM by Cheese »

Offline SRSemenza

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #148 on: July 23, 2017, 11:55 PM »
Bob,

  I have a pellet smoker / grill. I find that if I cook on a high temp for straight cooking as opposed to smoking, the smoke flavor is minimized to a degree that is simply complimentary to seasonings.  Mine is not good for steaks though as the temp only gets to 400 and it isn't high enough to get that fast caramelizing sear before the smoke alters the taste of the steak. But everything else works fine. But it seems that the Komodo gets much hotter than 400 so probably does steak well too?


Seth

Offline Bob Marino

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Re: The Big Green Egg
« Reply #149 on: July 24, 2017, 05:00 AM »
Bob,

  I have a pellet smoker / grill. I find that if I cook on a high temp for straight cooking as opposed to smoking, the smoke flavor is minimized to a degree that is simply complimentary to seasonings.  Mine is not good for steaks though as the temp only gets to 400 and it isn't high enough to get that fast caramelizing sear before the smoke alters the taste of the steak. But everything else works fine. But it seems that the Komodo gets much hotter than 400 so probably does steak well too?


Seth

  I thought that would be the situation -straight grilling instead of smoking then grilling. What flavor pellets do you prefer?
 Yes, the komodos can attain very high heats - upwards of 1000.
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