Author Topic: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem  (Read 2265 times)

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Offline ChuckM

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Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« on: November 29, 2017, 12:47 PM »
came from people who have made only a few posts before (1 - 4, e.g.)?

First, I must point out that I am NOT questioning their validity or intention, as it took them time to document their problems. From the details they provided, they seemed to have experienced first hand the problems they shared.

I am not second-guessing anything; I am just curious about my observation. A statistical coincidence?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2017, 12:49 PM by ChuckM »

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2017, 01:06 PM »
I do not think that this forum should be used to describe a problem before the dealer or Festool themselves have been given a chance to sort something out. If a customer is then let down or badly treated by either of these entities then they may feel that having a moan on the FOG is a good thing.

Also, it is good to remember that both Dealers and Festool staff may make mistakes and so it might take more than one email or phone call to get the right person on the case. I am all for raising the level of any issue but it should be done first up the chain within the dealer's or Festool's empire.

Peter


Offline estley

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Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2017, 08:44 PM »
sometimes it does seem like people sign up just for the purpose of complaining. I'm not questioning the validity of the complaints. For better or worse, in this day and age, complaining  publicly tends to yield solutions faster than going thru "channels".

A few years ago, i bought a relatively new product ("smart" vents for my house), i had a problem with one, and i filled out the customer service form on their website a couple of times and didn't get a response. I decided to post a comment/complaint on their facebook page, which was answered within minutes, and literally said "we apologize for your experience, but we're improving our customer service department every day!", to which i replied something along the lines of "contacting the people who request customer service would be a good place to start".... i received a call within minutes, by the same person that was in charge of their social media, they did resolve my issue, but after that, i can't recommend that company.


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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 01:15 AM »
sometimes it does seem like people sign up just for the purpose of complaining. I'm not questioning the validity of the complaints. For better or worse, in this day and age, complaining  publicly tends to yield solutions faster than going thru "channels".

A few years ago, i bought a relatively new product ("smart" vents for my house), i had a problem with one, and i filled out the customer service form on their website a couple of times and didn't get a response. I decided to post a comment/complaint on their facebook page, which was answered within minutes, and literally said "we apologize for your experience, but we're improving our customer service department every day!", to which i replied something along the lines of "contacting the people who request customer service would be a good place to start".... i received a call within minutes, by the same person that was in charge of their social media, they did resolve my issue, but after that, i can't recommend that company.


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You used the right approach....

You used the company's procedure for complaints and they failed to respond at least twice. Your use of social media after that was fully justified as it served not only to help your own case but would have put a shot up the *ss of the customer care side of that business which could only serve to help future customers.

Peter

Offline Cheese

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 01:33 AM »

You used the right approach....

You used the company's procedure for complaints and they failed to respond at least twice. Your use of social media after that was fully justified as it served not only to help your own case but would have put a shot up the *ss of the customer care side of that business which could only serve to help future customers.


I’ve had issues with both Festool and Woodpeckers. In all cases I’ve contacted them directly and have been very satisfied with the results.

For Festool my contact has been Tyler and for Woodpeckers I’ve contacted Richard (the president) or one of the other technical people. Great results every time...

Offline Holmz

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 03:31 AM »
came from people who have made only a few posts before (1 - 4, e.g.)?

First, I must point out that I am NOT questioning their validity or intention, as it took them time to document their problems. From the details they provided, they seemed to have experienced first hand the problems they shared.

I am not second-guessing anything; I am just curious about my observation. A statistical coincidence?

I am not a psychologist but the whole of the world seems to migrating towards madness ... Watching the news does not seem to generate hope and happiness.
Maybe FOG is mirroring some pervasive discontent and willingness to complain?

Generally there may be less to complain about now than in the past, but people tend to romanticise the past in a nostalgic way, as well catastrophise things which are normal.

Offline estley

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2017, 08:03 AM »
I am not a psychologist but the whole of the world seems to migrating towards madness ... Watching the news does not seem to generate hope and happiness.
Maybe FOG is mirroring some pervasive discontent and willingness to complain?

Generally there may be less to complain about now than in the past, but people tend to romanticise the past in a nostalgic way, as well catastrophise things which are normal.

Yeah, there's a lot of things in play, the need for instant gratification, people wanting attention, wanting to look smart by debating your point, it's all part of the world we live in now. Again, I'm not questioning the validity of the complaints themselves, but it feels like in some cases, the complaints (legitimate as they may be) are an excuse to start a debate and get people to chose a side in some imaginary cause.

Offline grbmds

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2017, 11:15 AM »
It seems that, for at least some Festool owners, the first place to go to fix a tool or resolve a tool problem with a recently purchased item, warranty or not, is the FOG. I have never understood that. When I buy a tool and there is something wrong with it or something goes wrong under warranty, I contact the manufacturer first (or the retailer if the tool is newly purchased). I don't buy tools from companies or retailers that won't stand behind their tools. Festool has resolved all my problems with tools in a reasonable way. Sometimes they have done more than be reasonable. I don't believe that you can ask for anything else from a tool manufacturer.
Randy

Online Michael Kellough

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2017, 11:26 AM »
@Holmz said,

"Generally there may be less to complain about now than in the past, but people tend to romanticise the past in a nostalgic way, as well catastrophise things which are normal."

My experience with the Festool past (way past, before Festool got firmly established with it's own brick and mortar) was that when I had a problem I'd just call David McGibben, tell him my issue, and a satisfactory solution would quickly ensue.

Offline live4ever

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2017, 12:04 PM »
I think there's a general trend in customer service to quickly take care of the folks that have a social media or online presence (and complain via forum, Twitter, FB, etc.) and kind of ignore or give the usual run-around to the ones who call or email in.  The reasons for this are obvious and it's no surprise companies are forced to do this.

As a consumer you have to be living under a rock (or not really be online) to not notice this.  Hence the reason why people consciously or subconsciously choose to voice their complaints on FOG - they are trying to guarantee themselves good results by generating a social media audience.
"What you have to do tomorrow, do today.  What you have to do today, do now."  - a wise grandfather who was clearly talking about purchasing Festools

Offline Jozsef Kozma

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2017, 12:41 PM »
I live under a rock and think most people on FOG are on
To share their knowledge and experience
Maybe I am naiv

Offline Cochese

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2017, 01:00 PM »
Well, for one, Google "Festool issue" or "Festool problems." This forum is consistently the top result. Most new owners aren't going to bother going through retail channels like Woodcraft, Rockler (formerly), or otherwise, because the usual answer with things like that outside of a return period is to contact the manufacturer.

So, by registering and posting here, complaints are being addressed two different ways: one, by other owners, who might have a solution or remedy for a known issue. Or finding out if it is indeed a known issue or something outside the norm. Two, by Festool itself. They may or may not know FOG is run by Festool, but seeing a few threads or searching the member list will confirm that. So it's a path of easy resistance.

Social media and forums are still a very quick way of finding something out or getting an answer, and people are accustomed to having to wait around for someone to answer the phone, and there's also the possibility that whomever is answering has a thick accent other to your own or is trained to get you off the phone as quickly as possible.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2017, 02:44 PM »
It is a question of good manners...

It might be easier to lash out on social media without making the effort or giving the supplier a chance to sort things out but that is simply not fair play.

Life has to be about give and take, helping one another and giving people (and suppliers) the benefit of the doubt - I accept that suppliers can be given this privilege just once but at least do that before broadcasting an issue that might be otherwise easy to solve.

It is just like a hostage situation...

The supplier gets a ransom demand (on social media) he has no option but to try and do the best for his business. He pays up (ignores the facts and publically gives in to the demand), even at the detriment of his other customers.

Anyone who goes public on social media without first trying to get a problem resolved by direct communication with the supplier is just taking a short cut and will only ruin their own reputation in the long term.

The other side of the coin is that suppliers must understand that they cannot leave the most junior staff running front of house. Every single communication with the customers has to be treated fairly and promptly. The one key bit of advice to any manufacturer or dealer is to communicate with your customers and keep them informed of progress on whatever issue is in hand at the time. If you advertise that you have a 48 hour turn around time for repairs then you had better inform any customer after the first 24 hours if that deadline cannot be met and explain why.

Peter

Offline Holmz

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2017, 03:57 PM »
It is a question of good manners...

It might be easier to lash out on social media without making the effort or giving the supplier a chance to sort things out but that is simply not fair play.

Life has to be about give and take, helping one another and giving people (and suppliers) the benefit of the doubt - I accept that suppliers can be given this privilege just once but at least do that before broadcasting an issue that might be otherwise easy to solve.

It is just like a hostage situation...

The supplier gets a ransom demand (on social media) he has no option but to try and do the best for his business. He pays up (ignores the facts and publically gives in to the demand), even at the detriment of his other customers.

Anyone who goes public on social media without first trying to get a problem resolved by direct communication with the supplier is just taking a short cut and will only ruin their own reputation in the long term.

The other side of the coin is that suppliers must understand that they cannot leave the most junior staff running front of house. Every single communication with the customers has to be treated fairly and promptly. The one key bit of advice to any manufacturer or dealer is to communicate with your customers and keep them informed of progress on whatever issue is in hand at the time. If you advertise that you have a 48 hour turn around time for repairs then you had better inform any customer after the first 24 hours if that deadline cannot be met and explain why.

Peter

Thanks for the recap.

The fact is that unless you are living under a rock, these good ol days of manners are gone, the social media and the instant gratification culture show no evidence of bolstering manners.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 495
Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2017, 05:16 PM »
Calling out a company in the public to fix or do something is shameful and self-promoting. The proper way to do it is to contact them in private and try to get it worked out and if that fails then step up the pressure by going public.

Of course FOG has a lot of tool collectors on it and this leads to a lot of the esoteric complaints.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2017, 05:47 PM »
The other side of the coin is, are some people actually "spoiled" by the quick responses of, in this case, Festool merchants who monitor the social media or forum.

Could it be that people are actually copying the "shoot first and ask later" (if you may) behaviour, because merchants unknowingly show that the standard way of resolving things is slow or ineffective?

There are numerous examples in this Forum that things were resolved quickly ONLY after the intervention of someone connected to or with inside knowledge of Festool. Over time, people learn that to get things done, they have two choices:

a) Proceed with the standard route for service and if you hit a bump (or worse, a wall), bring it up in the Forum or whatnot; or
b) Raise your problem from Day 1 in the Forum without wasting time or effort or experiencing frustrations.

(b) is like jumping the queue -- quick and effective.

Shouldn't merchants change their focus so their attention is on how to improve their standard way of servicing than on how to make the "loudest" few happy? The "loudest" few sooner or later will become the "loudest majority" and only few (the very patient ones) will remain to pursue their issues in the standard manner.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2017, 06:07 PM by ChuckM »

Offline DB10

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2017, 06:52 PM »
As was mentioned last week by Alex I believe,  the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Offline Cochese

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2017, 07:37 PM »
It is a question of good manners...

It might be easier to lash out on social media without making the effort or giving the supplier a chance to sort things out but that is simply not fair play.

Life has to be about give and take, helping one another and giving people (and suppliers) the benefit of the doubt - I accept that suppliers can be given this privilege just once but at least do that before broadcasting an issue that might be otherwise easy to solve.

It is just like a hostage situation...

The supplier gets a ransom demand (on social media) he has no option but to try and do the best for his business. He pays up (ignores the facts and publically gives in to the demand), even at the detriment of his other customers.

Anyone who goes public on social media without first trying to get a problem resolved by direct communication with the supplier is just taking a short cut and will only ruin their own reputation in the long term.

The other side of the coin is that suppliers must understand that they cannot leave the most junior staff running front of house. Every single communication with the customers has to be treated fairly and promptly. The one key bit of advice to any manufacturer or dealer is to communicate with your customers and keep them informed of progress on whatever issue is in hand at the time. If you advertise that you have a 48 hour turn around time for repairs then you had better inform any customer after the first 24 hours if that deadline cannot be met and explain why.

Peter

Except that social media a lot of times IS direct communication. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram accounts often get you faster and better responses than going through an automated phone system. For example, my cell provider's reputation over the phone or internet is less than stellar, but their Twitter team is top notch. I reach out to them for any issue, and I know things will get resolved with quickness. It's better than even going to the store, and doesn't cost me a thing.

There is a difference between ranting and requesting help though. It's all about the approach. I've rarely have issues with companies because I take a reasonable approach. If this is just about people who are rude, then that is a different story.

Offline estley

  • Posts: 101
Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2017, 07:42 PM »


There is a difference between ranting and requesting help though. It's all about the approach.

Bingo.... if social media is "the channel" then so be it, but as you, and others have said, your approach/tone/manners should be no different than if you were on the phone or face to face.


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Offline Chance B

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2017, 08:09 PM »
I treat company/tool complaints with the same respect I would want with my company. I always try to handle it with the company first before social media.

I would be upset if a customer didn't give me the opportunity to make things right before going straight to social media and complaining about me publicly. I've always had an attitude that people make mistakes. If they aren't made too often and they handle them in a timely manner, I am very forgiving and actually gain more respect because of the follow-up service. Nobody is perfect. No process is perfect. But, if you try to right a wrong, I will continue to buy.

Offline BJM9818

  • Posts: 160
Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2017, 09:33 PM »
I blame Amazon. Order something and get it dropped to your door in a few hours. People need things now. They can’t wait till tomorrow.

Something breaks at 6pm. Why wait till 9am central time, light the company up on the internet and get a response.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2017, 10:09 PM »
I’m taking a different approach. Could be they just don’t know what to do. They didn’t know about the great service festool has they are used to having to whine to get help.

Loving the Calif sun....

Offline antss

  • Posts: 1432
Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2017, 10:38 PM »
Quote
People need things now. They can’t wait till tomorrow.

No , they don't .   Well for most things anyway.

They want it now, and have become accustomed to getting a lot in quick time .  But, that isn't the same as neeeeeed.

Even at the ER some people have to wait.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 12:27 AM by antss »

Offline grbmds

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2017, 12:32 AM »
It is a question of good manners...

It might be easier to lash out on social media without making the effort or giving the supplier a chance to sort things out but that is simply not fair play.

Life has to be about give and take, helping one another and giving people (and suppliers) the benefit of the doubt - I accept that suppliers can be given this privilege just once but at least do that before broadcasting an issue that might be otherwise easy to solve.

It is just like a hostage situation...

The supplier gets a ransom demand (on social media) he has no option but to try and do the best for his business. He pays up (ignores the facts and publically gives in to the demand), even at the detriment of his other customers.

Anyone who goes public on social media without first trying to get a problem resolved by direct communication with the supplier is just taking a short cut and will only ruin their own reputation in the long term.

The other side of the coin is that suppliers must understand that they cannot leave the most junior staff running front of house. Every single communication with the customers has to be treated fairly and promptly. The one key bit of advice to any manufacturer or dealer is to communicate with your customers and keep them informed of progress on whatever issue is in hand at the time. If you advertise that you have a 48 hour turn around time for repairs then you had better inform any customer after the first 24 hours if that deadline cannot be met and explain why.

Peter

Thanks for the recap.

The fact is that unless you are living under a rock, these good ol days of manners are gone, the social media and the instant gratification culture show no evidence of bolstering manners.

They shouldn't be excused that easily; just because it's become acceptable to be rude online. Festool shouldn't give special handling to any buyer or user who has not at least contacted Festool or the retailer directly. I admit that I have not had many problems with the tools, but one large purchase wasn't right and the Woodcraft store in Madison completely stood behind the product and gave me a new one. The few other problems for which I contacted Festool directly were handled appropriately and quickly. No reason to broadcast the problems to the world. They were all resolved reasonably and to my satisfaction.
Randy

Offline eeeesh

  • Posts: 7
Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2017, 04:26 PM »
I am not sure which complaints you are talking about since I am new to the forum...

My thoughts on the subject are - if you were a new Festool owner, like myself - and just spent a lot of money on a tool that basically costs a lot more than a similar tool and you had a concern about the tool, you might be having second thoughts about the purchase and are just reaching out to other owners for reassurance or assistance?
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 04:48 PM by eeeesh »

Offline grobkuschelig

  • Posts: 167
Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2017, 04:37 PM »
A friend of mine once described this as the „doctors phenomenon“.
Meaning that, if you are only around sick people, you only see sick people and thus, you think almost everyone is sick.

I think this happens a lot in forums or discussion groups.
People come here, because they seek answers or have a problem they want to share or vent about.
If you had every tool you wanted and all of them worked brilliantly, why would you be on the Internet?
You would be in your shop, working with your beloved tools...

My solution is to not take anything so seriously. Everything you read is just another persons opinion. What you need to do, is go out and develop your own opinion. [emoji4]


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Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2017, 01:30 AM »
People come here, because they seek answers or have a problem they want to share or vent about.

If you had every tool you wanted and all of them worked brilliantly, why would you be on the Internet?
You would be in your shop, working with your beloved tools...


I have been very lucky in my life despite many close shaves. I now feel that it's pay back time and I have set out to help other people. I have a modest but super workshop and some lovely tools. I cannot share that space with a constant stream of visitors but I can share my little bit of knowledge and my experience to help others.

So that remark about "if you had every tool..." is wrong. Some of us, and most people know who the other FOGgers like me are, just want to share what we have and help others.

The first quote above "People come here because they seek answers..." only works if there are people willing to share their knowledge and experiences.

Peter
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 05:51 AM by Peter Parfitt »

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 267
Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2017, 11:48 AM »
Judging from what I have read in this Forum (I am selective and don't go through all the threads), I agree with Peter that those who come here with the sole intention of seeking answers or venting are a minority, a very small minority indeed.

I see many sincere exchanges here, though we can't avoid at times sarcastic or ill-prepared comments -- just like in the real world.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Why many (recent?) complaints about a Festool problem
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2017, 12:02 PM »
I am not sure which complaints you are talking about since I am new to the forum...

My thoughts on the subject are - if you were a new Festool owner, like myself - and just spent a lot of money on a tool that basically costs a lot more than a similar tool and you had a concern about the tool, you might be having second thoughts about the purchase and are just reaching out to other owners for reassurance or assistance?

well buddy we all are festool owners to some degree here. If someone was reaching out for assistance then they should frame their post to ask for assistance. No one would have a problem with that, we all were in that boat at one time or another. What I find suspicious and particularly annoying is some one who has say 1 or 2 post then comes here all butt hurt and rather than asking for advice or direction to be pointed in the right direct they instead come all butt hurt and just whine and complain.

thats as we say, a horse of a different color. I would and do have to ask myself what is this persons motive to start right out the box just going off, in more of what it seems to me like a smear campaign rather that asking for help.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2017, 12:05 PM by jobsworth »
Loving the Calif sun....