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Author Topic: Wooden van racking in a car accident, scary stuff.  (Read 3974 times)
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Brice Burrell

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« on: December 18, 2011, 11:39 PM »

I saw this posted over on the JLC forum and I thought I'd share it.  Here's a video showing wooden tool shelving in a van simulating an accident.  Scary stuff. 


wooden van racking crash test
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arbfincarp

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« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2011, 12:23 AM »

very scary stuff.
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Steve R

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« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2011, 01:54 AM »

Hey with the right polyurethane... it would have held together...... Eek! NOT!

They didn't seem to even be loaded with anything but empty bins. Add a several hundred pounds of tools and anyone in the front cabin would have to be removed with a wet vac.

I would like to see some tests with the custom metal racks. I would think that if they are not tied to the frame they would also just go forward and crush the driver and passenger.

Cheers,
Steve


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speed

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« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2011, 02:56 AM »

scary stuff, my transit has a steel bulkhead to hopefully provent that happening.

the racks was not really fixed to the van tho was they? just a few metal straps, if i built it i would screw everything in to the rails of the van and to the floor.
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Alex

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« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2011, 06:31 AM »

Bulkhead, bulkhead, bulkhead. A van is for driving with a load and any load in the back is dangerous in case of an accident.
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Kev

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« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2011, 07:57 AM »

Physics wins ...

There's not a lot you can do here. Imagine you've got well installed steel racking - then a cement mixer drives into the back of you at speed.

Lesson here? - the apprentice drives your van to the site!   Scared

... maybe not!
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woodguy7

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« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2011, 10:43 AM »

Yea, scary stuff but not a fair test.  Why were the seats removed, they would have given a lot of protection.  I'm not saying totally safe but I don't think it would have looked so bad.

Anyway, most vans in the UK come with steel bulkheads or some form of cage behind the drivers seat.

Woodguy.
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fritter63

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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2011, 03:53 PM »

So, is that a James Bond van? :-)

Have to nit, those aren't wooden shelves, they're MDF shelves (right?). And nobody ever claimed they were strong!
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EWTHeckman

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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2011, 04:32 PM »

I also have to wonder about the appropriateness of testing without at least a driver and passenger seat in place.

Did anyone else notice that the van wasn't even moving until the test started? It wasn't a "crash" test like you might where the momentum of the shelves and the objects on them carries them forward as the van comes to a sudden halt. Somehow they jerked the van body into motion, kinda like pulling a tablecloth out from under a bunch of dishes. It just goes to show that Sir Isaac Newton was right that an object at rest tends to remain at rest.

It also shows that whatever you do, do NOT "gun it" in reverse!  Eek! Scared

Finally, that cheerful music accompanying all the destruction in that test was just downright creepy.  Blink
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Ed "What the" Heckman
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2011, 04:45 PM »

Bulk head! Safe!  

My racking is against the bulk head fixed  so wont have any travel so would be save ALSO depends how well you built the wooden racking that one in the video just seems thin plywood like most people who rack a van use with just a couple of crappy angle brackets to hold it in place but I have 12mm plywood with 2x1 in-between both layers and every upright is fixed down and at the back is fixed I have glued it all also!! My racking is part of the van now you try and rock the racking in my van you rock the van!   I hate crappy wobbly racking which creak when driving along.

I like everything to be solid so when you go round corners when hand brake turning you dont hear any creaking or tapping or banging. lol


JMB

 
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EWTHeckman

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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2011, 04:53 PM »

I like everything to be solid so when you go round corners when hand brake turning you dont hear any creaking or tapping or banging. lol

How about other drivers and pedestrians? Can you hear their screams?  Big Grin
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Ed "What the" Heckman
ifit

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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2011, 05:19 PM »

their promotional video partially worked then, it scared you all but you were then supposed to look at the video of their racking in action to see how safe it is the you all rush out to buy it

bott
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fritter63

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« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2011, 05:36 PM »

Finally, that cheerful music accompanying all the destruction in that test was just downright creepy.  Blink


You Only Live Twice

I'm sure there's some irony in that selection....

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Frank-Jan

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« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 05:46 PM »

Here is their 2009 promo video, with English voice-over:
link


My own racking looks crappy compared to the fancy bott vario, sortimo and consorts' stuff. But I don't think 18 mm ply, with the uprights scribed to the sides, attached to the steel bulkhead, and to the floor and the wall with brackets will do as bad as the test of the first video.
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Alex

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« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2011, 06:23 PM »

I also have to wonder about the appropriateness of testing without at least a driver and passenger seat in place.

The test is not about how to protect the driver from flying objects, the test is about making the storage system in such a way that everything stays where it is and nothing gets airborn in the first place.

Read two comments about the seats not being in place. I assure you, you don't want to do that test in real life.

Did anyone else notice that the van wasn't even moving until the test started? It wasn't a "crash" test like you might where the momentum of the shelves and the objects on them carries them forward as the van comes to a sudden halt. Somehow they jerked the van body into motion, kinda like pulling a tablecloth out from under a bunch of dishes. It just goes to show that Sir Isaac Newton was right that an object at rest tends to remain at rest.

It makes no difference. This experiment tests the exact same conditions as a van crashing into a wall. Inertia is the keyword. In a real crash inertia prevents the storage racks from stopping at the same time as the rest of the van so that's why they fly forwards. In this test inertia prevents the storage racks to accelerate as fast as the van and that's why, relative to the van, they fly forwards also. With this setup you can do multiple tests without wrecking the van at the first try.

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Dovetail65

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« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2011, 06:42 PM »

It seems to me one needs to make the shelves, storage etc, act like its part of the vehicle, the best way to do that I guess is what they are trying to determine. Its like a seat belt. Once you strap in you move like the vehicle, it keeps you in your seat, you become in a sense, part of the car. You stop and your body stops with the auto. Unlike when you have no seat belt, the car stops, but your body wants to keep going forward.

So either the storage shelves, etc need to be  integral to the structural design of  the vehicle from the start(probably the best way) or they have to design a way to affix the stuff that works as well as a seat belt does for a human, making the storage system move and act like it's part of the auto.

The method of testing is pretty cool allowing for several tests before the vehicle is trashed.

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EWTHeckman

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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2011, 07:10 PM »

It makes no difference. This experiment tests the exact same conditions as a van crashing into a wall. Inertia is the keyword. In a real crash inertia prevents the storage racks from stopping at the same time as the rest of the van so that's why they fly forwards. In this test inertia prevents the storage racks to accelerate as fast as the van and that's why, relative to the van, they fly forwards also. With this setup you can do multiple tests without wrecking the van at the first try.

I mentioned it for two reasons:

1. It was interesting.

2. So I could make the joke about gunning it in reverse. So much for that idea… I'm gonna go soak my head now.
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Ed "What the" Heckman
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2011, 07:15 PM »

The method of testing is pretty cool allowing for several tests before the vehicle is trashed.

I imagine it's also harder than running the vehicle (or a replaceable sled) into a barrier because you need to get it moving almost instantaneously.
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Ed "What the" Heckman
andvari

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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2011, 09:22 PM »

50 kph isn't particularly fast. Lots of folks drive their vans around at twice that or more.

Since E=0.5*mv2 that's 4x more energy to dissipate.

I'd like to see a more stringent test.

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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2011, 09:48 PM »

If I had to listen to that music, I couldn't wait for the racking to crush me. Big Grin
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Tom Bellemare
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« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2011, 10:43 PM »

I lived in Houston a long time and it was VERY common to see 18-wheelers on the freeways loaded heavily with drill pipe. The port of Houston had incredible amounts of pipe coming in from Japan and it was trucked from the docks to pipe yards all around the city, waiting to be used on drilling rigs.

I once saw one of those trucks that apparently had to stop really fast on the freeway - panic stops from full speed were not too uncommon... I think the coroner had to pick the driver out of the pipe. The load went right through the tractor's cab.


Tom
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Dovetail65

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« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2011, 11:27 PM »

Yikes! And my 16 year old daughter got her first speeding ticket today, 70 in a 55. As  I was not nervous enough.

Maybe I should tell her that story. They don't show the kids the accident vids anymore like when I was in school. By today's standards they were probably not much, but they were gory at the time. We  talked about them for weeks after seeing the movie. Maybe a little bit of that scare needs to be put back into the kids.
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Dave Reinhold
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« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2011, 08:05 AM »

I was in an accident in my work van a few weeks ago, there were 2 vans involved. The van I was in had a metal bulk head which really saved my butt. The metal shelving units were ripped out and crashed against the cage moving it about 4". So many different tools popped off the shelves and were flying around everywhere. The other van involved did not have a bulkhead, his tools hit the back of the seats so hard it ripped the seats right out of the floor. He had tools everywhere and I'm glad he didn't have anywhere near the amount of tools I had in my van or it wouldn't have been a good sight.  After seeing his seat ripped out I would never drive a van without a bulk head and that had poorly made shelves that are not securely fastened.

Dave
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jmbfestool

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« Reply #23 on: December 20, 2011, 03:01 PM »

Well I think it's stupid not having a bulk head any way.   My van did not come with one but I bought one and installed one my self after 2days of having my van.     I have always thought its simply to dangerous driving around with no bulk head often vans come with just some bars behind the drivers seat which to me offers no protection and what about the passengers they never get any bars. 

Another great benefit to bulk heads is security  but also heat! your cabin area heats up much faster with a bulk head as your heaters aren't trying to heat up back of your van.

I don't know why all vans don't come with bulk heads as standard I see no benefits in not having one.

Jmb
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« Reply #24 on: December 20, 2011, 03:15 PM »

a friend of mine a few years ago was in a crash in his small van. he had his metal mechnics style toolbox filled with woodworking tools inside the back door and a few chisels put in beside it. head on colision with a small wall (avoiding someone). the tool box went through the front window and the chisels went halfway through the passenger seat. luckely no one else was in it.

i had a scare in my van . i had to stop of a shot  when some one pulled out in front of me. i stuck it to the road  and everything in the back flw up against the bulk head. frightened the be jaysus out of me

never under estemate the forces involed in a crash. every van should have a bulk head. my berlingo has half a bulk head and mesh on the top half. its a pain sometimes if you want to put in a skim bead or tiling trim etc. but at least the tools wont come into the front part
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woodguy7

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« Reply #25 on: December 20, 2011, 07:02 PM »

I used to have an old Astra van with no bulk head.  Me & my mate went off snowboarding for the weekend & on the way home I fell asleep & we went into the ditch doing around 30 mph. Even at that low speed, everything in the back came flying forward & one of the snowboard took my mate in the back of the head.  Serves him right, he was supposed to stay awake to keep me awake  Blink

Seeing as we are talking about crashes  Grin
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Oldwood

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« Reply #26 on: December 20, 2011, 08:20 PM »

I now like my trailer even more after seeing this video. Even if you have your tools all located in the steel shelving there is always something in the isle & more often than not it is heavy. I used a van for years but switched to a pickup & trailer a few years back.

Gerry
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« Reply #27 on: December 21, 2011, 03:37 AM »

I used to have an old Astra van with no bulk head.  Me & my mate went off snowboarding for the weekend & on the way home I fell asleep & we went into the ditch doing around 30 mph. Even at that low speed, everything in the back came flying forward & one of the snowboard took my mate in the back of the head.  Serves him right, he was supposed to stay awake to keep me awake  Blink

Seeing as we are talking about crashes  Grin

Seems fair   Blink
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Ken Nagrod
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« Reply #28 on: December 21, 2011, 06:17 AM »

My personal experience.  Around 8 years ago I had a woman come to a complete abrupt stop in the left lane of a highway, directly in front of me.  She wanted to u-turn through the median.  We were doing at least 50mph and I crushed most of her car with my big *** van.  The only damage to my van was the left corner of the bumper went into my tire and was rubbing.  The shelving units I had, I made out of heavy gauge aluminum.  I didn't have any protection between the shelving units and the front seats.  I had a lot of tools on those shelving units on both sides that ran the full length of an extended van.  Nothing hit me or the seats and the aluminum gave under the force, only distorting while still remaining attached and fully intact.  I believe that's the only reason my story differs from others - aluminum.
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Alex

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« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2011, 08:36 AM »

We were doing at least 50mph and I crushed most of her car with my big *** van.  The only damage to my van was the left corner of the bumper went into my tire and was rubbing. 

You were very lucky then. Seems the vast majority of the energy of the crash dissipated into the woman's car.
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